Chaos Fallen Angels?

[Just Alexis]

Question for anyone that knows, but in Vigilus Ablaze there is a Chaos Specialist Detachment called "Fallen Angels".

Can someone please help me understand how this works? what units i can put in a Fallen vanguard and if there are stratagems i can use or anything? (that arnt part of the specialist detachment)

I love Chaos but Dark Angels was the first box i ever seen of Warhammer 40k when i was little and i still want to use my Chaos and love the Fallen.

So could anyone help me understand how to do this?

[Closet Skeleton]

A Fallen vanguard can contain only Cypher and Fallen units in matched play thanks to the battle brothers errata rule. Outside of matched play fallen can go in any imperium or chaos detachment. You can put such a vanguard in either an imperium army or a chaos one.

 

The fallen specialist detachment allows rhinos and chaos sorcerers (with or without jump packs but no terminator armour) to join them but you have to spend the CP for the specialist detachment to keep them legal. The errata makes this a chaos only detachment that strips the imperium keyword from your fallen. So imperium allied fallen are still legal but can't use sorcerers or rhinos or the stratagems.

 

Fallen are Chaos space marine units so they can use chaos space marine stratagems in theory but in practice have the wrong keywords. The specialist detachment strips the heretic astartes keyword from sorcerers and rhinos which blocks them from using most chaos stratagems.

[Just Alexis]

so wait the new specialist detachment is fully unless for matchplay then?

where is the rules and index for all this info if i may ask? want to read up on it myself.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

It's in Vigilus Ablaze at page 186.

[Doom Herald]

so wait the new specialist detachment is fully unless for matchplay then?

 

where is the rules and index for all this info if i may ask? want to read up on it myself.

Not useless exactly. Normally only Fallen (the unit name) and Cypher have the fallen keywords. Fallen are an elite choice, Cypher is an HQ, they are in the CSM Codex. If you use the Fallen Angels specialist detachment, from Vigilus Ablaze, you can make one detachment of FALLEN able to take Sorcerers (can give jump pack but not terminator armor or mounts) and rhinos. If you do this though, they lose the IMPERIUM, HERETIC ASTARTES, <MARK OF CHAOS>, and LEGION keywords (see the FAQ for Vigilus Ablaze).

 

The problem with FALLEN is that CSM stratagem don't work on them because the keywords are wrong. Also, half of the psychic powers a sorcerer has only affect HERETIC ASTARTES, which FALLEN do not have. If you use the Fallen Angels specialist detachment you can no longer use FALLEN in an IMPERIUM army. Similarly, you can not put FALLEN in a HERETIC ASTARTES dettachment for matched play and the Battle Brothers rules say you can't make a CHAOS detachment. This means FALLEN can only ever be in a dettachment with FALLEN. Therefor, they are limited to Spearhead dettachments with Cypher and Sorcerers as HQ options, Fallen as Elites, and Rhinos as Transports. The final kick in the teeth is that the Rule of Three limits the number of times you can use a datasheet to 2 or 3 in many cases. This means that if you are limited to 2, you can't field them at all because a Spearhead requires 3 Elites and if you are limited to 3-5 uses of a datasheet, you can only use one detachment.

 

Edit: Vanguard not Spearhead detachment. Sorry.

[Just Alexis]

well at the start of the specialist detachment is says you do it when you pick your army, which to me means before you say you cant have fallen and chaos together?

[Doom Herald]

I suppose you CAN do a Vanguard of Cypher and Fallen with a Supreme Command with 3 Sorcerers using the Fallen Angels strat, but you can only use any specific specialist detachment once and if Cypher isn't in the Fallen Angels detachment, you aren't getting the best use out of it.

 

Edit: or a Supreme Command with Cypher, 2 Sorcerers, and 1 unit Fallen. This can still be used in 1000 pt or less armies with the Rule of 3.

[Just Alexis]

oh wait so the thing i thought i can do i can still do, which is take a spearhead of fallen angels with my chaos? when i use the stratagem fallen angels, legit im only doing this for fun with my club since dark angels chaos and fallen angels are my legit love so yeah

[Just Alexis]

you do you you can put cypher, a sorc, 3 fallen and 2 rhinos in the same vanguard right?

if you use the specialist stratagem???

thats legit how i read it.

[Doom Herald]

you do you you can put cypher, a sorc, 3 fallen and 2 rhinos in the same vanguard right?

if you use the specialist stratagem???

 

thats legit how i read it.

Yeap. One spearhead with the FALLEN Angels specialist just as you said is perfectly legal and can still be a part of a CHAOS army. Assuming you are either:

A) Playing with armies at over 1000 points.

or

B ) Not using the Rule of Three rule.

 

Edit: Vanguard. I always mix those 2 up.

 

The only real difference in how you can field FALLEN with the specialist detachment is that they can't be in an IMPERIUM army anymore and you can use Sorcerers and Rhinos.

[Doom Herald]

Also, even though FALLEN aren't "HERETIC ASTARTES" they are still "Chaos Space Marines" as defined by tho Codex and can therefore still use CSM warlord traits and relics. The Fallen Angels relic with the re-roll wound rolls of 1 CSM warlord trait might be cool.

[Just Alexis]

yeah sadly a Fallen Sorcerer cant prescience on the Fallen, but i asked my club members if i play this list if i can make it so the Fallen Sorcerer can change the rewords for the psykers to fit only Fallen and they said yeah, so it lets me use them a bit better :)

Cypher
Sorcerer: Prescience and Gift of Chaos

1x5 Fallen with combi-plasma + 3 bolters
2x5 Fallen with combi-plasma

2 Chaos Rhino

and that will be in a list with other Chaos doing there thing, thinking of doing alot of rhino's and warp talons being very charge based with havocs in the back shooting.