Are Ravenwing bikes any good?

[dice4thedicegod]

I’m getting the bikes (just 3 for now), going to put meltas and combi meltas on them) and going to kitbash a Sammael on jet bike.

 

I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts!

[Neuralshock]

If you want to push the limit on your bikes, practice using the assault phase to hide your stuff. winning the movement phase will set you up to win the rest of the game.

[ValourousHeart]

I’m getting the bikes (just 3 for now), going to put meltas and combi meltas on them) and going to kitbash a Sammael on jet bike.

 

I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts!

 

If you are planning on using the Shield captain jetbike as your base, there are a couple of threads with examples other members of the forum made that might give you a little inspiration.

You might also want to take the other 2 models from that set and build a Talonmaster and Sableclaw, they are both worth having.

 

[Gederas]

I’m getting the bikes (just 3 for now), going to put meltas and combi meltas on them) and going to kitbash a Sammael on jet bike.

 

I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts!

If you are planning on using the Shield captain jetbike as your base, there are a couple of threads with examples other members of the forum made that might give you a little inspiration.

You might also want to take the other 2 models from that set and build a Talonmaster and Sableclaw, they are both worth having.

Personally, I dislike using what's clearly a jetbike as the basis for something that's supposed to be a Land Speeder. But that's just me

 

As to kitbashing Sammael, I've started on a "Primaris Sammael" using the Custodes Jetbike and (far too much effort in) cutting up Primaris Legs:

 

I've already done some measuring, and all I'd need to do afterwards is remove Sammael's arms and replace them with Primaris arms because his torso is already a good size for this.

[dice4thedicegod]

Man, I’m kicking myself for not thinking of using a Vertus praetor as a base (I have one!). Still, I guess if I ever run DA and custodes soup then my jet bike captain will at least look different to my Sammael.

 

I’m planning on using The kromlech shark jet bike

[ValourousHeart]

Personally, I dislike using what's clearly a jetbike as the basis for something that's supposed to be a Land Speeder. But that's just me

 

Oh I completely agree.  But then I really like Land Speeders.  But a lot of people on here don't like them for their own reasons.

 

I was merely mentioning it because if you were already picking up that kit, it would save you some money.

 

But I believe that if you are planning on converting something... Saving money isn't generally the primary goal.  The primary goal is to make a cool model that fits a certain aesthetic.

[Gederas]

Personally, I dislike using what's clearly a jetbike as the basis for something that's supposed to be a Land Speeder. But that's just me

Oh I completely agree.  But then I really like Land Speeders.  But a lot of people on here don't like them for their own reasons.

 

I was merely mentioning it because if you were already picking up that kit, it would save you some money.

 

But I believe that if you are planning on converting something... Saving money isn't generally the primary goal.  The primary goal is to make a cool model that fits a certain aesthetic.

Preach it brother. I got the Land Speeder Javelin (with Lascannons) to make Sableclaw. And that's a 97 USD kit :lol:

[Grand Master Raziel]

I’m getting the bikes (just 3 for now), going to put meltas and combi meltas on them) and going to kitbash a Sammael on jet bike.

 

I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts!

If you're feeling a little ambitious, you could use magnets to make it possible to swap out what special weapons your bikers are carrying. I've done that with mine. I've used teeny magnets in the hand and guns, and that works okay, but using bigger magnets in the torso and arm to swap out the entire arm works better.

 

If you decide to do that, I highly recommend using a disposable model as a magnet dummy, Seat magnets in the torso, and you can use the magnet dummy to make sure you're keeping the polarities consistent across all your play models. Figured that one out early on in the process of magnetizing robed vets, when I realized I'd done opposite polarities on a couple of the first ones and their arms weren't cross-compatible. 

[ValourousHeart]

That sounds about right... GW sells the kit for $35 and upgrade frame for $15 ($50 total + tax)... and your conversion is $97 and you still probably needed the $15 upgrade frame.

 

I was thinking of my Dreadnoughts... I could have just used the $50 kit right out of the box... instead my dreadnoughts cost me $136 + tax each.  And technically you have to build 2 in order to get the price that low.  

[Gederas]

That sounds about right... GW sells the kit for $35 and upgrade frame for $15 ($50 total + tax)... and your conversion is $97 and you still probably needed the $15 upgrade frame.

 

I was thinking of my Dreadnoughts... I could have just used the $50 kit right out of the box... instead my dreadnoughts cost me $136 + tax each.  And technically you have to build 2 in order to get the price that low.  

Oh yeah. I mean, let me be honest here:

 

My Sableclaw used:

- Javelin Landspeeder

- Sammael

- Stormcast Eternal Upgrade 1 (male heads)

- Ravenwing Upgrade Frame (Assault Cannons and Twin Heavy Bolter)

- Ravenwing Black Knights (shoulders and torso on the gunner)

- Chaos Vehicle Upgrade sprue (gunner's back)

 

 

Thankfully, I only needed to buy one kit (the Javelin) for the conversion as I had everything else already. But yeah.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Although that's a great mini, it's well off the topic of bikers brothers.

 

Do you want a trip to Cell 42?

[Gederas]

Although that's a great mini, it's well off the topic of bikers brothers.

 

Do you want a trip to Cell 42?

Does it have cookies? I really like oatmeal raisin....

 

 

Anywhoo. In regards to the original question: Ravenwing Bikes, the specific unit, is pretty decent on paper. 14" movement, with the ability to advance another 6" and the 4++ Jink Save is nice. But then you can't shoot the twin-botlguns.... They're also pretty beefy, being Toughness 5 and 2 Wounds along with the 3+/4++(if advancing). Trading the Bolt Pistol for a Chainsword on them is nice, as it makes them a decent CC unit. You should do so, as they Strength and Damage is the same (unless you've got, say a Chaplain Dreadnought), but has more attacks. In terms of melee they're a faster and beefier, but slightly more expensive, Assault Squad with Jump Packs (23 points per bike, 15 points for a jump pack Assault Marine).

 

With the fact that a squad can have 2 special weapons and a combi-weapon on the Sergeant, they make a good delivery for them.

 

If you're going to be trying to get those Jink saves all the time? Have the two bikers equipped with Flamers and toss a combi-flamer on the Sargent. Yes, a bit expensive, but then you've got units that have a 20" movement and a 28" threat range for their Flamers.

 

If you want them big game-hunting? Equip 2 melta-guns and a combi-melta on the sarge and attach an attack bike with multi-melta for maximum output. Note: a single bad roll can leave that enemy dreadnought or carnifex just alive enough to eat you, so have some other things able to soften up the big game you're hunting.

 

When going Plasma, equip 2 plasma-guns and combi-plasma, you will have a bike squad with 102 pts (34pts per bike) can deal 12 bolter shots at 24" range and 6 plasma shots at 12" range, and go melee with 7 S4 ap0 d1 attacks, and be 12 points cheaper than a same-size Black Knight squad 114 pts (38pts per bike).

 

Personally, I really like the Ravenwing Bikers, as they've got a lot of uses if you think of them. That being said, they have the same issues that Marines always have: The points per model is expensive for what you get, and you'll always be outnumbered

[dice4thedicegod]

I’m tentatively planning on putting a single squad of them in a 1500 point dual battalion list (blood angels and dark angels, and a patrol of wolves), so I’d hopefully have sufficient CP to always use speed of the raven and fire the meltas/combimelta as well as twin bolters each turn. That combination of speed, firepower, T5, and 4++ sounds quite nice.

[Hantheman]

I like ravenwing bikers a lot, they're better priced than black knights (which I adore from a fluff/model perspective). The issue is the game is full of 2 damage weapons and so sadly, they often just die. C'est la vie

[dice4thedicegod]

Started my Sammael... need to think if I should bling him up (add a tome or DA/Ravenwing heraldry...

[jbaeza94]

and a cape. a big flowing cape

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Really needs some bling because at the moment he doesn't stand out apart from a regular trooper.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, needs bling bad!

 

++But on a light Mod note, if you want this thread to be about your dudes and modelling please change the title; at the moment folks might come here for discussion on just bikers. Cheers in advance.++

[Maxamato]

One issue I see with bikes is, that is very hard to receive proper cover. Beside of woods and ruins (plus 50% obscured) no terrain provides cover.

 

Or do I miss something?

[ValourousHeart]

One issue I see with bikes is, that is very hard to receive proper cover. Beside of woods and ruins (plus 50% obscured) no terrain provides cover.

Or do I miss something?

I think that your concern might be tied to the terrain collection you generally play over. In my experience terrain collections tend to be woefully deficient in the diversity category. You want to have terrain that blocks line of sight for a verity of units.

Generally you will see tables that clearly benefit a specific army design. Take a look at this table and think about what type of list you would want to play on that table.

Likely a list that could camp out in the building in the center of the deployment zone. That is a board that is terrible for any sort of Ravenwing units. This is also a table that could decide the game based solely on who won the dice off to chose the first deployment zone.

Or you could go with a little more robust terrain collection and play on a board like this.

This is a board is a board where all sorts of units are effective and hindered. Bikes would be hindered by all the levels, but they would benefit from all of the LOS blocking terrain. Plus if they hugged the terrain they would be able to avoid any snipers on the upper levels. A Knight might be able to control a small section of the board and shoot at some units across the board, but would be blocked from a lot of the table. Land Speeder could zip around all of the levels, fly over, under and around all of the terrain, but could find themselves isolated if they go zipping off to fast before the area is secured.

[Neuralshock]

if you're playing itc, bikes only have to toe in cover to get the benefit. It's keyword vehicle that needs in cover and touching cover

[Maxamato]

@ValourousHeart:

Yeah, true, table one is a Tau table.  

 

My point is, thath, if i go to a tournament, then I don't know how the tables looks like. I would also prefer LOS Blocking terrain but if not, I wopuld like tho gain cover from i.e. crater.

 

@Neuralshock:

This is an ITC "home brew" rule? Becuase bike don't receive coer from i.e. a crater.

[SnakeChisler]

Bikes need to be run in packs if your going to use them, I've settled on 2 normal + plasma + storm bolter + black knights

 

If your running club lists then 2 squads of 4 is useful, the Talon Master more than Sam gets you the ignores cover, with prepared positions, camo cloaks and Shroud psalm the weight of unmodified fire is pretty blistering. Add the bolter rule and you have highly mobile firebase.

 

I've also used them for tank and transport blocking a 4 man squad can wrap round a Rhino or tank chassis and stop it moving it keeps the guys safe and blocks till you can level some anti tank at it. Just jumping around tagging tanks is really useful on its own.

[Maxamato]

What is Shroud Psalm?

[dice4thedicegod]

What is Shroud Psalm?

It must be an inner circle thing. Prepare for a visit from inquisitor-chaplain!