Space wolves 2500 points - the pale hunters

[strawberry fist]

Hi all,

 

I’ve just started collecting the space wolves for 30k and made this list, what did you lot think?

Plan is to scout the 1 grey slayers, Deathsworn and Varagyr with russ and Hvarl and try and assault as soon as I can

 

HQ

Hvarl Red-Blade

 

Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest)

Terminator armour (Cataphractii) & combi-bolter

. Speaker of the Dead: Power Maul

 

Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest)

. Power armour: Bolt Pistol

. Speaker of the Dead: Power Maul

 

Elites

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought

Extra Armour,

Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon x 2

 

The Deathsworn

Rad Grenades

. Deathsworn: Power Axe and bolt pistolx7

. Land Raider Phobos: 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons, Extra Armour

 

Troops

Grey Slayer Pack X10 with boltgun, pistol and chainsword

. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion

 

Grey Slayer Pack X10 with boltgun, pistol and chainsword

. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion

 

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad

. Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon

. Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon

. Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon

. Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon

. Varagyr Thegn: Combi-Bolter

. . Frost Weapon: Frost Claw

 

Heavy Support

Heavy Support Squad, X10 - Legion Missile Launcher,

 

Lords of War

Leman Russ

 

Rite of War- The Pale Hunters

[noigrim]

You coul do with a second or third antitank ranged unit, tone down the hth a notch

[strawberry fist]

What would i take out for more anti tank?

[noigrim]

Deayhsworn but hey rule of cool

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Dunno, I feel like The Pale Hunters is a trap when used in conjunction with Hvarl. It's definitely great for reserve-heavy lists though.

 

Hvarl works awesome in conjuntion with Armoured Spearhead, if you ask me. Russ is great in The Bloodied Claws, with double 'Howl-of-the-Deathwolf'.

[strawberry fist]

Watched a video by the Outer Circle on YouTube and made a 1500 point army based on what he suggests, how does this look as I can then scale it up to 2000, 2500 and 3000 points?

 

1500 points

Hvarl Red-Blade

 

Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest)- Terminator armour & combi-bolter, Speaker of the Dead: Power Maul

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought - Extra Armour, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon x 2

 

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad x5

Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon: Frost Claw

Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon: Frost Axe

Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon: Frost Axe

Varagyr Terminator:Combi-Bolter, Frost Weapon: Frost Axe

Varagyr Thegn: Grenade Harness, Power Fist, Frost Weapon: Frost Claw

 

Grey Slayer Pack

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Chainswords/Combat Blades X8

. Huscarl: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword

. Rhino

 

Grey Slayer Pack

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla,

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Chainswords/Combat Blades X8

. Huscarl: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist

. Rhino

 

Land Speeder, Legion: Heavy Bolter

 

Heavy Support Squad, Legion Missile Launcher x10

 

VI: Space Wolves, Loyalist

 

Rite of War - bloodied Claws

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Outer Circle used to give some good advice in the past, but lately I feel he's way to much complaining and nay-sayin'. But well.

That's a list he'd suggest ? 

Consider me surprised.

But onto your list then ...

 

Hvarl grants you a 6'' scout move.

The Grey Slayers will (statistically) make it into the enemies deployment zone (to benefit from the bonus your RoW bestows) or at least into melee range, due to their inherent abilities in combination with 'Howl-of-the-Deathwolf'.

Things aren't looking that well for the Varagyr though. They're in Cataphractii armour and cannot run. Thus, I feel, they also do not offer great synergy with Hvarl, who would better be accompanied by (cheaper) Legion Terminators in Tartaros armour. 

Now, the unit is already seven strong (both HQs and five Varagyr), so getting them a transport vehicle will be expensive and will go down the all-eggs-in-on-basket route ...

Yeah, definitely switch them for Tartaros Terminators, so the unit can run. They should (mostly) be fine, with the FnP and Fearless from the Speaker.

 

In terms of equipment, your units are seriously under-equipped when it comes to anti-tank.

There's a single Fist on the Terminators - that doesn't cut it, literally. I'd opt for at least two Chainfists, plus some Power Fists sprinkled in.

Varagyr (if you decide to stick to them), are kinda special here, in that they can be configured with two close combat (specialist) weapons. That's actually the one thing making them good. 

 

The Slayers are facing a similar issue. Charged by a Dreadnought or a dedicated melee unit with some AP on their weapons, they'll go down like a ten-dollar .... well, you get it.

Slayers ~are~ a dedicated melee unit themselves. Equip them as such.

Ditch the Boltguns, really. You're scouting, and can charge after running and moving, and can utilize the 'Howl'. How many rounds do you think will they be shooting ? Exactly.

Slap some melee equipment on them, maybe two Power Fists, or a mix of two Power Swords plus two Axes. Consider a Vexilla as well, so they won't run away after the first roun of enemy shooting.

Sergeant needs a melee weapon with some AP as well, plus Artificer Armour and a Melta Bomb.

 

Double-Kheres Mortis is an awesome unit, but keep in mind that he'll only have STR 7 in melee.

 

In summary, I'd absolutely drop the lone Speeder to get some gear on your unit Sergeants at the least. And I'd switch the Varagyr for Tartaros Terminators.

Also, since you're all footsloggin' (which can work all fine and well for Space Wolves), I'd consider freeing some points to get Apothecaries for your Slayers.

 

Hope this helps a bit !

 

 

 

EDIT:  I forgot: Of course your (dedicated) Rhinos would scout 12'' inches. But they're not assault vehicles. So, in this RoW and with Hvarl's ability, I feel like the Slayers would be better served by an apothecary.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Unknown Legionnaire

[strawberry fist]

Thanks for the reply, it was one of his older videos about following the 9 golden rules, get two HQ’s, min of 2 troops and then one more scoring unit per 500 points (Varagyr) some anti tank (heavy support squad) and double kheres contemptor. He suggested making a 1000p list and scaling it up.

 

With the Varagyr, I went down the bolter route as I knew I wouldn’t be able to fit a Spartan in for that point level.

 

With the grey slayers i know there more aggressive than legion tactical squad but my experience of them with my Death guard legion is they die very quickly especially when there out of the rhino!

 

So with the slayers have a power fist on the huscarl, and the rest of them have 2 swords and 2 axes and a vexila. If I drop the rhino how may guys would you advise I run in a squad. Definitely need to squeeze an apothecary in if there isn’t a rhino.

 

For more anti tank run the contemptor with 2 twin lascannons or stick to the anti infantry/ anti rhino (by glancing it to death) kheres?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Hvarl

 

Speaker of the Dead w. Tartaros Armour

 

5x Legion Terminators w. Tartaros Armour, 5x Combi-Weapon, 3x Power Fist, 2x Chainfist

 

10x Slayers, 2x Power Fist in the unit, Artificer Armour, Power Fist & Melta Bombs on Huscarl. Vexilla.

 

10x Slayers, 2x Power Fist in the unit, Artificer Armour, Power Fist & Melta Bombs on Huscarl. Vexilla.

 

2x Apothecary w. Artificer Armour

 

8x Heavy Support Marines w. Missile Launchers, Sergeant w. Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner & Melta Bombs.

 

Double-Kheres Contemptor Mortis w. Extra Armour.

 

 

Leaves you 10 pts. to toy around with (buy one more Slayer).  Flakk Missiles on the Heavies would've been nice, but didn't make it in due to cost.

[strawberry fist]

So use Hvarl to scout the 2 grey slayer squads and himself the priest and terminators, then move run and charge hopefully.

 

Would a rune priest be better than a wolf priest as the wolf priest and Hvarl both confer preferred enemy to the unit.

 

What else would you put into the list to make it up to 2000 points?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I'd stick to the wolf priest for Fearless and FnP. You're going to need that whilst running towards the enemy. 

 

Hvarl provides Pref. Enemy to all friendly units in 12'', not just the one he had joined.

 

Going up to 2.000 I'd definitely add more anti-armour. Dreadnoughts or Sicaran variants come to mind. Plus a couple more bodies.

[strawberry fist]

So I’d look at another grey slayer squad and las contemptor. Would you recommend this squad to have a rhino and infiltrate the two on foot?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Scout. Not infiltrate. Huge difference there.

 

I'd probably go for something else than Slayers if I were to decide on my next infantry unit. 

Seekers and / or Veterans come to mind. Highly customisable units both, but still scoring.

Both would need a transport. For Vets, it would depend on their role, but Seekers just about love to ride in a Dreadclaw, for example.

 

Or you could pump up the Slayers squads you have, and max out the Heavies as well, before adding more infantry units.

[strawberry fist]

What about a the twin las contemptor and some Deathsworn, seeing as all 4 slots would be spoken for they would have to be a bodyguard unit for the wolf priest.

 

I’ve never use seekers before, are they any good?

[AdamSMValar]

Good list Edited July 30, 2019 by AdamSMValar

[strawberry fist]

So to make it up to 2000 points I’ve managed to add 2 vindicator laser destroyers, a techmarine with master crafted bolter and a seeker squad with 5 combi plasma, a melta bomb and lightning claw.

 

That gives me a bit more anti tank with the 2 laser vindicators, a squad to go head hunting and a techmarine to hover around the tanks so he can heal them. Would that be ok to add to the above 1500 points?

[strawberry fist]

I've rearanged the army around what I've enjoyed at 1000 points and scaled it up.

Depending on mission and opponent a squad of slayers or terminators with Hvarl and wolf priest can go into the Storm Eagle or it could be left empty and used as a gun boat. Plan on scouting the two Slayer squads and Havrl or if one is in the Store Eagle hide the missiles and scout them into a better location.

 

What do you think?

 

1992 points RoW- The Pale Hunters

HQ

-Hvarl Red-Blade

-Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest) - Terminator armour & combi-bolter: Combi-Bolter

 

Elites

-Apothecarion Detachment - Apothecary Artificer Armour, Chainsword and Apothecary Artificer Armour, Chainsword

 

-Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought: Extra Armour, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon x 2

 

-Terminator Squad, Legion - Tartaros Pattern Terminator Armour X6, 4 Power fists, 2 Chain fists and 1 Reaper Autocannon

 

Troops

-Grey Slayer Pack (X14 man)

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Vexilla, Legion

. Grey Slayer -Power Weapon: Power Sword

. Grey Slayer: Combat Shield X2

. Grey Slayer: Power Fist

. Grey Slayer: Bolter X8

. Huscarl: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist

 

-Grey Slayer Pack (X14 man)

. Grey Slayer: Bolter, Vexilla, Legion

. Grey Slayer -Power Weapon: Power Sword

. Grey Slayer: Combat Shield X2

. Grey Slayer: Power Fist

. Grey Slayer: Bolter X8

. Huscarl: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist

 

Fast Attack

 

-Outrider Squad, Legion - 3x Space Marine Outrider, Legion, Twin-linked Bolter, Bolt pistol and chainsword

 

-Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, Legion - Extra Armour, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, Twin-linked Lascannon x 2, Vengeance Launcher

 

Heavy Support

 

-Heavy Support Squad, Legion Missile Launcher (X10 men)

[The Scorpion]

Dunno, I feel like The Pale Hunters is a trap when used in conjunction with Hvarl. It's definitely great for reserve-heavy lists though.

 

Hvarl works awesome in conjuntion with Armoured Spearhead, if you ask me. Russ is great in The Bloodied Claws, with double 'Howl-of-the-Deathwolf'.

Why is Hvarl a trap? Isn't he the only way to make use of "acute senses"? (thanks FW, for making the Wolves so hard to outflank)

 

As for: 

 

 

Slayers ~are~ a dedicated melee unit themselves. Equip them as such.

Ditch the Boltguns, really. You're scouting, and can charge after running and moving, and can utilize the 'Howl'. How many rounds do you think will they be shooting ? Exactly.

 

Some of the Slayers are going to die, and since Pale Hunters will be granting "Hit & Run", the 'Shoot & Charge' bonus is going to be used more often than the 'Run & Charge' one. Not to mention ennemy units won't be always looking to stay away from charge range, and might just get close enough that running and charging isn't really needed. That could be many shots.

 

But the main reason: modelling. The plastic kit comes with bolters. If you want to equip a pure barebones melee Grey Slayer squad, you will be forced to go fish for a lot of arms, pistols, and chainswords on Ebay and Bitz stores.

Edited April 20, 2020 by The Scorpion

[strawberry fist]

In the brief few games I've managed to play the boaters have come in useful when the slayers are not in a good place to move run and make the assault, they've been able to sit back a turn and actually do some shooting as the army seems to lack shooting but seems to come into its own when there all in combat. 

 

I've really liked the Hit and Run special rule they get as they can leave combat during my opponents turn to either help them reposition to take on a larger unit or get ready to charge back in to get the bonus attack for charging again.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

Dunno, I feel like The Pale Hunters is a trap when used in conjunction with Hvarl. It's definitely great for reserve-heavy lists though.

 

Hvarl works awesome in conjuntion with Armoured Spearhead, if you ask me. Russ is great in The Bloodied Claws, with double 'Howl-of-the-Deathwolf'.

Why is Hvarl a trap? Isn't he the only way to make use of "acute senses"? (thanks FW, for making the Wolves so hard to outflank)

 

As for: 

 

 

Slayers ~are~ a dedicated melee unit themselves. Equip them as such.

Ditch the Boltguns, really. You're scouting, and can charge after running and moving, and can utilize the 'Howl'. How many rounds do you think will they be shooting ? Exactly.

 

Some of the Slayers are going to die, and since Pale Hunters will be granting "Hit & Run", the 'Shoot & Charge' bonus is going to be used more often than the 'Run & Charge' one. Not to mention ennemy units won't be always looking to stay away from charge range, and might just get close enough that running and charging isn't really needed. That could be many shots.

 

But the main reason: modelling. The plastic kit comes with bolters. If you want to equip a pure barebones melee Grey Slayer squad, you will be forced to go fish for a lot of arms, pistols, and chainswords on Ebay and Bitz stores.

 

 

 

I never said Hvarl is a trap.  Don't twist the wording please.

 

I stated that I feel like he is a trap in conjunction with 'Pale Hunters', simply because he offers a lot more in conjunction with other RoW in my personal opinion. But like everything else, that's highly subjective. I was asked for advice - I gave some.

 

Besides that, Space Wolves are not harder to outflank than anyone else.

 

 

On the matter of the Slayers: When your Grey Slayers are shooting more that a single round at most in a standard game, then you're doing something wrong.

There are better and more customisable units for high-quality shooting (I.E. damage output), but Slayers are one of the most versatile close combat units in turn, simple as that.

[The Scorpion]

In the brief few games I've managed to play the boaters have come in useful when the slayers are not in a good place to move run and make the assault, they've been able to sit back a turn and actually do some shooting as the army seems to lack shooting but seems to come into its own when there all in combat. 

 

I've really liked the Hit and Run special rule they get as they can leave combat during my opponents turn to either help them reposition to take on a larger unit or get ready to charge back in to get the bonus attack for charging again.

 

How would you say the melee bonuses from "The Pale Hunters" compare to the ones from "The Bloodied Claws"?

[strawberry fist]

 

In the brief few games I've managed to play the boaters have come in useful when the slayers are not in a good place to move run and make the assault, they've been able to sit back a turn and actually do some shooting as the army seems to lack shooting but seems to come into its own when there all in combat. 

 

I've really liked the Hit and Run special rule they get as they can leave combat during my opponents turn to either help them reposition to take on a larger unit or get ready to charge back in to get the bonus attack for charging again.

 

How would you say the melee bonuses from "The Pale Hunters" compare to the ones from "The Bloodied Claws"?

 

The benefits for the bloodied claws makes all units that charge gain plus 1 strength which would mean that slayers with chainswords world be wounding marines on 3+ instead of 4+ downside is that they are within 12" of a unit they have to charge it so they can be goaded into charing a unit you don't want. They also get +1 to combat resolution which can be handy. 

 

I like the idea of hit and run and being able to control when I can fight and retreating out of combat. The big downside is not having access to 3 Heavy slots hence why I thought about using a storm eagle as a transport/ gunboat, the other option is to use a land raider but that means the slayer squad would have to decrease in size or the terminators would have to become terminator bodyguard to allow them to fit in with Hvarl and wolf priest. The plus of having a flyer is that with pale hunters you get +1 to reserve rolls.