Anyone consider Land Speeders?

[Claws and Effect]

Specifically, has anyone considered Land Speeders as an alternative to Devastator squads?

 

I just did some quick and dirty math and my conclusion was favorable to Land Speeders versus equivalent firepower from Devastator squads.

 

A unit of 3 Speeders with Typhoon missile launchers and heavy bolters puts out 6 krak missiles or 6d6 bolter equivalent shots, plus 9 heavy bolter shots.

 

It is also T6 with 18 wounds total.

 

For the same number of shots you need 2 Devastator squads. 1 with 4 missile launchers and 1 with 3 heavy bolters and a missile launcher. That nets you 5 krak missiles or 5d6 bolter equivalent and the same 9 heavy bolter shots.

 

T4 and 10 wounds total.

 

The Land Speeders are 34 points more than the 2 squads, but for those 34 points you get a whole extra missile launcher and 8 more wounds.

 

Oh, and when you have 3 of them they can move 20", making them much easier to reposition if needed.

 

I know a lot of people see Land Speeders as a bad unit, but in light of what I discovered I can't help but wonder if people just aren't looking at them the right way.

[Bryan Blaire]

I don’t think they are bad units en mass, but I think that their use very much depends on the amount of LOS blocking terrain along with room to maneuver, who and what army are you playing against, how will mobility factor into your plans, etc.

 

I can definitely see situations where taking Speeders over Devastators could work, and vice versa.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Land Speeders are a lot more vulnerable to anti tank fire, which tends to be long range. There are a lot of guns that can easily chew through a dev squad in one go, but on average your lascannons or missiles will out range those threats, so you have slightly more survivability on the field. You can also toss on some cheap bodies to absorb wounds,a nd have an advantage camping back field objectives against non obsec units. If you consider crusader MSU squads over dev squads then you make a good thing better.

 

All that being said, i do use Land Speeders from time to time. But I employ them a lot more like bike squads. Outfit them with heavy bolters or heavy flamers and zip them around tying up units and harassing. Two heavy flamers each are a pretty solid choice on something that fast.

[Panzer]

The problem with Land Speeders compared to Devastator Squads is that they can't take Lascannons and that you can't use the two Mortal Wound Stratagems on them since those are for infantry only.

Also especially with the Primaris line now I'm not too sure if S5 AP-1 is something you'd want to take Land Speeders for if you can't use the Mortal Wound Stratagem considering they have so much of it already (Bolter Inceptors, Repulsors and Redemptors and I guess Intercessors fall into that category as well even if it's just S4 AP-1).

[The Unseen]

I just see them as overpriced compared to attack bikes.

A mm attack is 49 pts, with 4 bolter shots at 24" and a mm, with T5, 3+, and 4 wounds.

A landspeeder with as close to the same firepower (so a mm and a heavy bolter) is 82 freaking points.

And yeah, you gain fly and 2" of movement, and 2 wounds, but theyre 2/3 more expensive.

Aka you can get 2 speeders, or 3 attack bikes.

Plus the heavy bolter hits on 4s as well as the mm, I'll take 4 bolter shots hitting on 3s always over 3 heavy bolter ones hitting on 4s (or worse, I face alaitoc eldar frequently)

 

And if you just want pure anti infantry dakka, heavy bolter attack bikes are dirt freaking cheap, they just get outshone by inceptors.

 

I can't ever see them replacing devs because you don't run devastators with missile launchers, because missile launchers are bad. You take lascannons, because they actually kill things.

If land speeders could run an underslung twin las, then they might be worth turning into your dev replacements.

The larger fw relic speeders can take lascannons, but they are ridiculously over costed if I remember correctly.

 

And the twin heavy flamers are cute, but I just think that I could get a dreadnought for a few points more. It's slower, but it's got 2 more wounds and is toughness 7, and is way way scarier in combat.

 

Just my 2€

[Captain Idaho]

The only real comparison with Primaris is Inceptors but they're pretty different since the range is double on 3 Attack Bikers compared to Inceptors. Range is important in this game which is why Inceptors are considered "glass cannons".

 

So it's a question of more firepower for the points or the range.

 

Still, it's a difficult one to determine whether it's worthwhile mind, but long range S5 -1AP is nice to have for just 111pts. 333pts for 9 could be useful too.

 

Now, Land Speeders is even more difficult for me to determine how much mileage you'll get. Remaining at the back of your army with 6 wounds per model could be tidy in a list with a few vehicles. But as with everything in Marines lists it just isn't very killy compared to other Codex books yet dies fairly easily.

 

Sorry if this is inconclusive. I just want to engage in this discussion as have been thinking of it myself, yet without Strategum support and love from GW I just can't determine it's competitiveness.

[redmapa]

I dont think there's a correct answer to this, I've been trying to form up an opinion on this and much like Idaho I think the Speeders have a lot of pros and cons and their role can be filled with other units with perhaps not such a huge difference so I think the core of this issue is that all the options that can have the role of a cheap long range support unit are fairly mediocre, not bad but not great either and Devastators just have the opportunity for greater damage with lascannons. So in the end you're just asking yourself what are you willing to trade off? Devastators for more damage but less toughness? Attack Bikes for more anti-infantry? Land Speeders for mid-strength long range support? Inceptors for mobile anti-infantry that is a bit more expensive? I like land speeders and personally they fit better than Devastators in my army.

[Claws and Effect]

A little more explanation:

 

I'm looking at the Land Speeders for a list that also includes a bare bones Knight Paladin and 2 Warglaives. I'd have to think most opponents will be aiming their anti tank weapons in their direction before they worry about a few Speeders hanging out in the back.

 

And yes, the Speeders hit on 4s....if you move. They don't have a minimum movement distance, so you can park them and fire away.

 

I'm also playing Raven Guard, so land Speeders just feel fluffier to me.

[Sloeberjong]

Man, if you like them and feel like they're fluffy go ahead and use them. I think you can use a lot of units to great effect if you kinda base your army that way. It probably won't be the most optimal choice, but they'll work. Just make sure you know their limitations and strengths and the'll be useful for sure.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd like feedback on your experience using them as I've always liked them as a Marine staple.

[Hantheman]

I want to use them. But T5 at that cost is plain silly.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I use them with my primaris frequently and have had a lot of luck with them. For me they zip around the board and harry flanks, shoot backline units or take objectives. I've actually only had one die in about 8/9 games and that was because the opponent didn't have much else to shoot at. I equip them with 2 lots of heavy bolters and I use a whirlwind frequently too which is great for the stratagem (whirlwinds that are another stand-out unit for me)

[Dracos]

Given your overall list design I think it’s just fine. I have two Xiphons for similar reasons. It’s not like Devestators would be much lower on an an opponents to do list. Tougher, more maneuverable, and rule of cool. Math wise I think you’re fine on effective points but more importantly you have a plan.

 

One question, Would they have synergy with a Whirlwind?

[Claws and Effect]

One question, Would they have synergy with a Whirlwind?

Not a lot. They're equipped to keep their distance and shoot, not zip around the battlefield.

 

I suppose I could in a pinch....but I gave my Whirlwind to my wife a while back and it's red now.

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

One question, Would they have synergy with a Whirlwind?

Not a lot. They're equipped to keep their distance and shoot, not zip around the battlefield.

 

I suppose I could in a pinch....but I gave my Whirlwind to my wife a while back and it's red now.

 

 

There's a stratagem that allows a Whirlwind to autohit if there is a landspeeder within 12" of an enemy unit. IMO that's plenty of synergy and generally if I take one, the other is an auto include.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

 

One question, Would they have synergy with a Whirlwind?

Not a lot. They're equipped to keep their distance and shoot, not zip around the battlefield.

 

I suppose I could in a pinch....but I gave my Whirlwind to my wife a while back and it's red now.

There's a stratagem that allows a Whirlwind to autohit if there is a landspeeder within 12" of an enemy unit. IMO that's plenty of synergy and generally if I take one, the other is an auto include.

I know about the Strategem.

 

There's just not a lot of synergy with the speeders being equipped with missiles and heavy bolters.

 

Two heavy flamers would have tons of synergy because they want to be close anyway.