Blindhamster Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I quite like the variety, but I tend to convert things anyway. I prefer the primaris body and legs approach as I like the detailing on the abdomen, so a single kit to cover all those wouldn't make sense. Is what it is I guess, but you're right that other factions should get more support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 If decades old sculpts are the basis of a "Need for an update" then this applies to virtually all space marine special characters. All models that were originally in pewter and then moved over to finecrap especially, in my view, "needs" to be updated asap True, some of the Marine characters are decades old sculpts. In fact, the oldest model still in service is a Marine character. Yet none of those decades old sculpts are in the Space Marine Codex. They're all from Codex Space Wolves (Ragnar Blackmane), Blood Angels (Commander Dante, Brother Corbulo, Mephiston) and Dark Angels (Supreme Grand Master Azrael and Grand Master Ezekiel). Every other Marine character is from 4th edition onwards and while some of them have aged badly (amusingly given the vitriol in this thread, Tigurius is one of the worst and most in need of an update), they're still newer than some armies basic troops. Craftworlds have staple models from the early 90s - not just named characters like Marines, but actual units and standard HQs. Necrons & Craftworlds have units from mid-3rd edition, including the basic Necron Warriors and Aeldari Guardians. So yeah, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels do need a couple of named characters each and I doubt anyone would be sad to see the back of Finecast for good, but I'd still argue that getting basic infantry refreshed so that they're not almost 25 years old is more important. Yeah I was refreshing the page like an idiot, until i noticed the cheeky PM!12 hours to go 12 hours seems a long time. That'd put it at 10pm. Are you sure that's not time zones getting things mixed up? Not that I want the reveal asap or anything :D Well, even though some ranges are much older and require a visual refresh, it can be argued that the Primaris range is incomplete and needs additional releases just to function as a well rounded army. That's more important. Until Primaris are a seperate Codex then I disagree. Primaris have everything they need, they just need to take from the entire Codex rather than restricting themselves to Primaris only stuff. If anybody chooses to artificially limit themselves to Primaris only, then that's their choice, with all the benefits and drawbacks that come with it. They're choosing to play a sub-faction rather than a full faction. If/When Primaris get split off into a seperate Codex, then I 100% agree with you - they should have everything they need to function as a stand alone army. This isn't to anyone in particular: If all we get is Marines, Chaos, Marines, Chaos, Marines, token Xenos, Marines etc, then the game will eventually suffer. Surely you want a healthy game with opponents who are eager to play, who have new toys and are excited about upcoming releases? I'm a Marine player, so I'm pretty stoked about the announcement later today. But I can't imagine T'au, Tyranid, Aeldari, Necron or Ork players really care that much. For four of those factions I doubt they've cared for 99% of 8th edition. "Oh look, more Marine/Chaos releases ... yay." while they keep playing with their 25 year old Warp Spiders and Avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 You might disagree, and I see your point of view, but the Primaris are not fully compatible with the classic Marines. They have a keyword seperation which means the ranges don't fully integrate. They can't share vehicles, now they can't benefit from each other's psychic disciplines, they have relic, wargear and stratagem limitations, etc We've never had a transition period like this before, with a range as popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Yeah I'm actually a Marines player and I'm bored of the release schedule. I fear it is great for short term growth but will be detrimental to the business long term. GW should push the Xenos armies each quarter with massive revivals. New units, reimagining of old units and new rules etc. It all feels a little stale and contrived right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 But you've also chosen not to engage or invest in Primaris. What if I want the army just to be able to compete with other books on an equal level? Or just to have a good variety of play styles and units? Death Guard, Chaos and GSC have received more kits and releases than Primaris in the last two years, for example. Astartes also have the oldest and least competitive codex. People are approaching this from a purely model perspective. It's more than that, there's also the game to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Yeah I'm actually a Marines player and I'm bored of the release schedule. I fear it is great for short term growth but will be detrimental to the business long term. GW should push the Xenos armies each quarter with massive revivals. New units, reimagining of old units and new rules etc. It all feels a little stale and contrived right now. Well it’s in a holding pattern per that Financials report because they will finish up the industrial expansion this fall. I’m waiting for N1SB to break it down before forming my own opinion about it but my working theory is that they’ve devoted a lot of time to pushing out the small warband games so frequently while they hold off on big army revamp releases until they factory is in full swing. Hence no Light/Dark Elves in AoS, revamped Guard, revamped Eldar, basic Ork/Necron troop redo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 To be fair, we've taken this quite far off topic. Likely that's because we've exhausted the information we have available and the discussion has come to an end. I'm going to bow out of it now and I suggest we all do the same as the Meltas can be heard firing up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 To be fair, we've taken this quite far off topic. Likely that's because we've exhausted the information we have available and the discussion has come to an end. I'm going to bow out of it now and I suggest we all do the same as the Meltas can be heard firing up... We just gotta wait until 9 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Only 9 and a half hours to go.. The reveal better be good after this wait. I hope it's more than just the multi-part versions of Shadowspear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Only 9 and a half hours to go.. The reveal better be good after this wait. I hope it's more than just the multi-part versions of Shadowspear. I'm too broken by GW to have any hope :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Hope has no appointment, Expectations create disappointment. Hope is always a good thing. :P I hope for another loyal primarch, do I expect one? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I honestly hope that the release date is soon enough, like pre-order next weekend with a one week turn around. They've been getting a little too comfortable with a two week pre-order, and combined with how they advertise the preorder date like the actual release, it kills the hype entirely. I just want to see the new/updated codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Nord in Gravis Armour Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 The resources spent designing and producing 12+ Lieutenants and a new Captain every time you want a different weapon could have been so better spent. I'd say that's a little bit of an exaggeration. Almost all of the lieutenants have only come with weapons that they either had access to in the DI box (Power Sword, Auto Bolt Rifle) or a weapon the Intercessors had in their multi-part kit for over a year (Stalker Bolt Rifle). There have been lieutenants with different weapons, but to date it's been a total of only three (DA, SW and Vanguard). Hardly 12+. Sadly it's not. Someone did the count before in another thread and maybe even this one. You're intentionally conflating the number of lieutenant models with the number of lieutenant models that were released with different weapons. THAT was the specific claim you made that I took issue with. If you want to back away from it, fine. I don't blame you, because you're demonstrably wrong. But don't act like I'm unaware of the number of lieutenant models when you know that wasn't the statement I was addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Total list of Lts and Sergeants Dark Imperial Auto Bolter Dark Imperium Power Sword and Bolt Pistol Lt Calcius Forge World Lt Wake the Dead Lt Space Wolf Lt Dark Angel Lt Blood Angel Lt Respirator Sgt Ork Head Sgt Sgt with Bolt Rifle Phobos Lt (previewed) Phobos Lt from Shadowspear I think that’s all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Not likely to happen in a thread about the next Marine codex, mate It goes beyond this thread though, doesn't it. Marine players "need" things in various threads all the time. It's more that this is the best thread to speculate about what the next Marine release will bring and what the next iteration of this army's rules will do to bring them up competitively. Even the rich need something ;) For what it's worth, I would love to see a new, fun, competitive Necron 'dex release alongside new models, and I will gladly engage in that topic over on that side of the board should the winds of fate suggest such a thing is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Nord in Gravis Armour Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Total list of Lts and Sergeants Dark Imperial Auto Bolter Dark Imperium Power Sword and Bolt Pistol Lt Calcius Forge World Lt Wake the Dead Lt Space Wolf Lt Dark Angel Lt Blood Angel Lt Respirator Sgt Ork Head Sgt Sgt with Bolt Rifle Phobos Lt (previewed) Phobos Lt from Shadowspear I think that’s all of them You're missing a couple, but again not the complete statement I was addressing. Of ALL of those, only the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Vanguard Lts came with new weapons. It was NOT a case of designing and producing "12+ lieutenants and a new Captain EVERY TIME YOU WANT A DIFFERENT WEAPON." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Total list of Lts and Sergeants Dark Imperial Auto Bolter Dark Imperium Power Sword and Bolt Pistol Lt Calcius Forge World Lt Wake the Dead Lt Space Wolf Lt Dark Angel Lt Blood Angel Lt Respirator Sgt Ork Head Sgt Sgt with Bolt Rifle Phobos Lt (previewed) Phobos Lt from Shadowspear I think that’s all of them Who's the Forge World LT? It's more that this is the best thread to speculate about what the next Marine release will bring and what the next iteration of this army's rules will do to bring them up competitively. Even the rich need something For what it's worth, I would love to see a new, fun, competitive Necron 'dex release alongside new models, and I will gladly engage in that topic over on that side of the board should the winds of fate suggest such a thing is coming. I can't help you there - I've not even read the latest Necron Codex. I could probably talk Tyranid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Total list of Lts and Sergeants Dark Imperial Auto Bolter Dark Imperium Power Sword and Bolt Pistol Lt Calcius Forge World Lt Wake the Dead Lt Space Wolf Lt Dark Angel Lt Blood Angel Lt Respirator Sgt Ork Head Sgt Sgt with Bolt Rifle Phobos Lt (previewed) Phobos Lt from Shadowspear I think that’s all of them You're missing a couple, but again not the complete statement I was addressing. Of ALL of those, only the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Vanguard Lts came with new weapons. It was NOT a case of designing and producing "12+ lieutenants and a new Captain EVERY TIME YOU WANT A DIFFERENT WEAPON." I'm sorry, what is your point of contention? That I said GW release models for new weapons or my actual point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Nord in Gravis Armour Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Total list of Lts and Sergeants Dark Imperial Auto Bolter Dark Imperium Power Sword and Bolt Pistol Lt Calcius Forge World Lt Wake the Dead Lt Space Wolf Lt Dark Angel Lt Blood Angel Lt Respirator Sgt Ork Head Sgt Sgt with Bolt Rifle Phobos Lt (previewed) Phobos Lt from Shadowspear I think that’s all of them You're missing a couple, but again not the complete statement I was addressing. Of ALL of those, only the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Vanguard Lts came with new weapons. It was NOT a case of designing and producing "12+ lieutenants and a new Captain EVERY TIME YOU WANT A DIFFERENT WEAPON." I'm sorry, what is your point of contention? That I said GW release models for new weapons or my actual point? By "actual point," you mean the point you moved the goalposts to AFTER I dismantled your original statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 =][= Brothers, do you hear that high pitch whine in the background? That's my plasma cannon overcharging. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. =][= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I’ll give you two years of Xenos focused model production if you give me a new (Ultramarine free) codex that enables vanilla Primaris to compete equally with Eldar on the top table. Either way, our dissastisfaction isn’t likely to get GW to change their strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 =][= Brothers, do you hear that high pitch whine in the background? That's my plasma cannon overcharging. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. =][= overcharged I presume? I hope we get some additional info about that "angels of death" rule in 30 minutes, I personally don't care for, nor mind new models, I am however very interested in a new codex. Especially if it buffs my precious terminators . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargate_wars Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 =][= Brothers, do you hear that high pitch whine in the background? That's my plasma cannon overcharging. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. =][= overcharged I presume? I hope we get some additional info about that "angels of death" rule in 30 minutes, I personally don't care for, nor mind new models, I am however very interested in a new codex. Especially if it buffs my precious terminators . You are getting the release time wrong 9pm bst when GW will release the info. We have 1hr 12mins from this post to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 =][= Brothers, do you hear that high pitch whine in the background? That's my plasma cannon overcharging. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. =][= overcharged I presume? I hope we get some additional info about that "angels of death" rule in 30 minutes, I personally don't care for, nor mind new models, I am however very interested in a new codex. Especially if it buffs my precious terminators . You are getting the release time wrong 9pm bst when GW will release the info. We have 1hr 12mins from this post to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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