Codex: Space Marines 2.0 speculation & discussion

[momerathe]

I've knocked up a quick poll on the new chapter tactics: https://forms.gle/o7aHv33JkeZ5hSyT8 (also posted on reddit)

 

I'll try to do some sensible analysis in a day or two :)

[Sete]

What CT are you planning to use:

Blank Templars lol

[Prot]

I've knocked up a quick poll on the new chapter tactics: https://forms.gle/o7aHv33JkeZ5hSyT8 (also posted on reddit)

 

I'll try to do some sensible analysis in a day or two

 

The results so far are pretty much what I guessed... most of the 'competitive' Ultramarine players will be leaving Ultra tactics and taking on some other tactics.

[Ishagu]

It's a bit too soon to decide I think as Ultras are getting the supplement, but I expect that when all the Chapters have one then people will be picking Iron Hands, Sallies or Custom tactics.

[Lemondish]

 

 

I've knocked up a quick poll on the new chapter tactics: https://forms.gle/o7aHv33JkeZ5hSyT8 (also posted on reddit)

 

I'll try to do some sensible analysis in a day or two

The results so far are pretty much what I guessed... most of the 'competitive' Ultramarine players will be leaving Ultra tactics and taking on some other tactics.

I want to see this poll taken again once we have more insight into what the supplement brings.

 

I fully expect to see the numbers change back again ;)

 

I also fully expect people to play ultra vehicles the same way they currently play Infantry with Fly: no -1 to hit on Inceptors, Suppressors, VV, etc.

[momerathe]

What CT are you planning to use:

Blank Templars lol

 

Oops! Don't purge me brother.

 

It's a bit too soon to decide I think as Ultras are getting the supplement, but I expect that when all the Chapters have one then people will be picking Iron Hands, Sallies or Custom tactics.

  

I want to see this poll taken again once we have more insight into what the supplement brings.

 

I fully expect to see the numbers change back again

Fair. I am impatient

 

I also fully expect people to play ultra vehicles the same way they currently play Infantry with Fly: no -1 to hit on Inceptors, Suppressors, VV, etc.

Yes. It's such a bizarre legalistic way of thinking: somebody who would pull that argument is not someone I want to play against.

 

EDIT: from a quick scan of the responses, the people who are most unhappy with the new CT are Raven Guard. Ultras are more in the middle.

[Captain Idaho]

The poll doesn't elaborate on those Chapter Tactics who people are unhappy with.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

-1 to hit does change what you can reroll because that 2 is considered to be a success.

On BS2+, yes, a 2 is considered a success. But modifiers never change what you can reroll, because (except for Cawl's aura) you can only reroll failed hit rolls, and modifiers only make (usually successful) rolls fail after the reroll step is done.

 

As most marine units are BS3+, you can reroll 1 and 2 (failed at that usual BS), but not 3 (which is failed after taking into account the -1). Which is why I said "in most cases" (=BS3+), you can reroll 2s. For a unit with BS2+, the full reroll doesn't even change anything but overwatch.

Yea woops sorry I thought you were talking about the captain there. Also abbadon and angelos share the cawl aura iirc

[Claws and Effect]

Raven Guard players are most unhappy because our new CT is a downgrade for the majority of our units.

 

The only things that got better for us are vehicles (especially flyers), and units that get camo cloaks.

 

The part that really burns me is that we used to be really good against Tau because their BS generally isn't great and they don't want to get closer. Now they're really good against us because they have an abundance of weapons that ignore cover. We used to be their counter, now they're ours.

[momerathe]

The poll doesn't elaborate on those Chapter Tactics who people are unhappy with.

Yes the summary stats don't show that. I'll post a chapter-by-chapter break down after I close it.

[Lemondish]

Raven Guard players are most unhappy because our new CT is a downgrade for the majority of our units.

 

 

I'm not sure that's true. Mathematically seems to be pretty even, sometimes better, considering +1 save is really powerful for 3+ units.

[Guest Triszin]

Im really hoping the invictus has two melee arms as an option. 2 pistol heavy bolters. Pew pew

[MajorNese]

 

 

-1 to hit does change what you can reroll because that 2 is considered to be a success.

On BS2+, yes, a 2 is considered a success. But modifiers never change what you can reroll, because (except for Cawl's aura) you can only reroll failed hit rolls, and modifiers only make (usually successful) rolls fail after the reroll step is done.

 

As most marine units are BS3+, you can reroll 1 and 2 (failed at that usual BS), but not 3 (which is failed after taking into account the -1). Which is why I said "in most cases" (=BS3+), you can reroll 2s. For a unit with BS2+, the full reroll doesn't even change anything but overwatch.

Yea woops sorry I thought you were talking about the captain there. Also abbadon and angelos share the cawl aura iirc

Abby, Haarken, maybe more. Maybe GW noticed the whole reroll-modifier-thing, just like the unmodified 6 effects that, back in the day, triggered on 4+ depending on buffs.

[CaptainMarsh]

Today's article needs to go up already. XD

[Toxichobbit]

New article is up: here.

 

Lots to unpack in it. All the new units, including previously unseen Incursors. Details about the Angels & Wolves. Combat Doctrines.

 

 

 

Today's article needs to go up already. XD

 

Doesn't it just :p

[Captain Idaho]

Raven Guard players are most unhappy because our new CT is a downgrade for the majority of our units.

The only things that got better for us are vehicles (especially flyers), and units that get camo cloaks.

The part that really burns me is that we used to be really good against Tau because their BS generally isn't great and they don't want to get closer. Now they're really good against us because they have an abundance of weapons that ignore cover. We used to be their counter, now they're ours.

I wouldn't get too upset about it. The Ultras CT is likely the worst of all but there will be a whole Supplement to salve that wound...

[Sete]

Well 2 impulsors on the shopping list.

Need those metal bawkses.

[Claws and Effect]

 

Raven Guard players are most unhappy because our new CT is a downgrade for the majority of our units.

 

 

I'm not sure that's true. Mathematically seems to be pretty even, sometimes better, considering +1 save is really powerful for 3+ units.

Big difference:

 

Every faction has some kind of weapon that ignores cover.

 

Things that grant +1 to hit at range are a lot more rare.

 

Mathematically it might work out roughly the same, I'll know more after I playtest it. But the undeniable part is that the new CT is a lot easier to circumvent than the old one.

 

That's why it's a downgrade. Not because it makes us any less survivable, but because it's so much easier to take away.

[Toxichobbit]

Incursors look interesting. Basically a unit of the Phobos Lt.

 

The transport is a bit weird, tiny transport capacity but the Assault Vehicle rule to let you disembark (but not charge) after moving. Not really impressed with it and I have the feeling a lot of other people won't be either. It's not the Rhino analogue that was wanted.

 

The Warsuit actually looks quite tasty. A lot more firepower than just ironhail stubbers. Using the heavy bolter in melee is cool too.

 

I really like the comms for the Infiltrators. Freeing up characters to go elsewhere but keeping the buff on the Infiltrators makes them a nice independent module and I don't think I'll miss the Helix Adept.

 

The Combat Doctrines are interesting. I can see Templars getting very excited about AP-1 chainswords.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Interesting is an understatement; we know why repulsors shot up in points now with the doctrines and chapter tactics.

 

Bolt rifles are going to be gunning things down

[Toxichobbit]

Or even better, Stalker Bolt Rifles on Veteran Intercessors using Target Sighted. Between that and Str5 Bolt Sniper Rifles characters are going to drop like flies.

 

In fact, the more I think about it the more I'm realising that Combat Doctrines is a huge change. Gonna need to completely re-evaluate every weapon in the arsenal. Like missile launchers; -1AP on Frag & -3 AP on Krak closes the gap between them and lascannons significantly.

[Captain Idaho]

That transport is way too small a capacity and I think is basically not going to be worth it. Unless Aggressors count as a single model in there.

 

Anyway, I want to focus on the Doctrines rules!

 

How good are they? I'm very impressed and happy. Bolters from even Tactical Marines will be more dangerous now and all my Heavy Weapons are getting much more powerful.

 

Man, consider Predator Autocannons and Whirlwinds with AP-2!

 

This is great stuff.

[CaptainMarsh]

I have 9 Eliminators. I will be interested in seeing what their points look like.

As for the Impulsor Transport: If you're looking to get into Melee then no, it isn't that great. But using it to shuffle MSU around to objectives quickly and safer is not something to sneeze at in an objectives game.

[Subtleknife]

The new transport will be great for mass hellblaster assaults. Keeps them safe. Then zooms them up field into rapid fire range they get out and point click and delete.

[Toxichobbit]

No transport is any good for getting stuff into melee, so that's not the issue with it. For me the problem is I wanted a transport that could take decent sized units, or multiple units without breaking the bank. The Impulsor isn't that. It's not the Primaris Rhino that so many of us expected and with all the extra gubbins it comes with I doubt it will be cheap (£ or points).

 

On a different note, I wonder if Land Raiders will gain the Assault Vehicle rule? As they are where it originated back in 3rd ed.