BolterZorro Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Tau has a bad reputation. For opponents mostly. And for good reasons. Especially when the list is a CASTLE like, shooting from the back and staying there all the game. But I like the miniatures. I love the exo suits....and I hate to play castle (even with my primaris with guilly boy). So, this thread is intended for every tau players and tau soon to be players ;-) How to build a list and play tau without castle, preferably aggressively. I am totally noob with tau. So, I'm asking to pro: "how to do this?" I'd like to play crisis because of their initial impact. I'd like to play riptide because they give nice firepower, I want to play commanders because...comanders (are soooo good) ;-) Stealth and goshtkeel are solid but can have a role. I dont like the miniatures of kroots and vespids, nor tau vehicles. So, suggestions? lets aim to 1750 or 2k points and 2 appraoch (if possible: competitive and semi competitive=fun but not soft) PS: personaly I have for now not yet assembled, 2 commanders, 2 riptides, 9 (or 12) crisis)and a bunch of drones (20?). Of course I'll grab some FW and Cadre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I mostly focus on stealth and recon units (stealth suits, ghost keels, pathfinder, kroot, coldstar). It's not the best kind of T'au list currently but it's my thing. Alternatively theres fish of fury and fliers to explore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5350121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Problem is you have somewhat castle stuff and don't like some of the more mobile stuff I play lists with no fire warriors and Kroot that vanguard straight forward. Gun drones can be good this way too and there's always the Y’varha and coldstars Other than that maybe the 8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5350122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Also Flamer Crisis are a good way to pull your army a bit apart since they obviously want to get close asap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5350123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
andes Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I often run lists built around a couple Devilfish, each loaded up with Breachers plus a couple of Ghostkeels supported by Stealth Suits. Add in some Kroot, Ion Pathfinders, CIB Crisis Suits and a VMT Coldstar and you've got the base for a fun, mobile list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5350128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I do love some aggressive Tau and have been really working on it this year. First and foremost you have The Eight. We have other threads on them here but if you want aggressive this is the pinnacle of aggressive Tau. Strangely enough they do tend to cross the table in a big deathball of red battlesuits but they so not stay that way once they make contact with the enemy lines usually by turn 2. More generally Farsight Enclaves play highly aggressively and are at their best within 6" of the enemy - so you do want some combat capable commanders as counter-assault because you do not have the overwhelming overwatch of T'au Sept to save you. Farsight himself works better than I think people realise, so long as you are playing an aggressive game and have no intention of castling up. If you want Riptides/Crisis/Ghostkeel/Stealth then on balance I would probably go with Farsight Enclaves for mad aggressive lists. Riptides, Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits can all play a danger-close game reasonably well due to durability. Tie up enemy shooting in assault then fly back out and shoot again is the way to play them. A crisis team dropping in with Drop Zone Clear is a FSE classic but do not disregard running crisis teams across the table, especially with flamers which are surprising effective in large numbers when rerolling 1's to wound. I have also had a go with a more speed & stealth themed list using Vior'la Sept. I went with Vior'la both for the boost to mobility with Assault weapons and also for the truly excellent Hot Blooded stratagem. I would say that the 6-strong stealth team using Hot Blooded almost every turn were the stars of that tournament. This list was built with a lot of troops (2 units of each troop type), multiple piranha, ghostkeel, stealth suits and missile pod commanders for the constant rain of high quality missile fire they can lay down. I did also have a fair few vespid but I think you could easily enough replace those with other options such as crisis suits for that ability to drop into the enemy backfield and be a complete nuisance. If you like the infantry then Vior'la is a strong choice. Fast moving Breachers with Pathfinder special weapons squads to back them up and Stealth Teams providing early game pressure are all solid in Vior'la and you pick a unit each turn to shoot twice with the Sept stratagem. Commanders are good. Coldstar commanders are bonkers good in an aggressive list. Unless you really want to load up with CIB there is almost no reason not to take as many Coldstar commanders as you can - the potential threat of their hyper-mobility will have your opponent tied up in mental knots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Nice wall of text @happy-inquisitor THX. Commanders are good. Coldstar commanders are bonkers good in an aggressive list. Unless you really want to load up with CIB there is almost no reason not to take as many Coldstar commanders as you can - the potential threat of their hyper-mobility will have your opponent tied up in mental knots. The problem with coldstar is they feel quickly alone. They need some back up. Deepstriking some crisis can help? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Nice wall of text @happy-inquisitor THX. Commanders are good. Coldstar commanders are bonkers good in an aggressive list. Unless you really want to load up with CIB there is almost no reason not to take as many Coldstar commanders as you can - the potential threat of their hyper-mobility will have your opponent tied up in mental knots. The problem with coldstar is they feel quickly alone. They need some back up. Deepstriking some crisis can help? If your whole list is aggressive that won't be much of a problem. Your Coldstar shouldn't ne the speartip just because it can. At least Stealth Suits and Ghostkeels should be closer for the enemy turn 1, and turn 2 you have plenty of options, ranging from Piranhas and loaded Devilfishes to Crisis Suits, Drones and Vespids, to protect your Coldstar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 A side question: what's about the Eight? Are they worth it (especially in this agressive approach)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Nice wall of text @happy-inquisitor THX. Commanders are good. Coldstar commanders are bonkers good in an aggressive list. Unless you really want to load up with CIB there is almost no reason not to take as many Coldstar commanders as you can - the potential threat of their hyper-mobility will have your opponent tied up in mental knots. The problem with coldstar is they feel quickly alone. They need some back up. Deepstriking some crisis can help? If you are properly aggressive they will still not be the closest model as the rest of your army is right in their face when you unleash them :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Is there a competitive Tau list that play this way (in a recent competition/itc/etc etc...)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Not really. Competetive T'au lists are all castle lists in one way or another. The most interesting competetive T'au list I've seen recently was a Piranha spam list that castled around Riptides (iirc) and shot all the Seeker missiles in the world turn 1. If anything survives they potentially could move all over the table with their M14 but it's not like they'll do a whole lot with their 12 S5 AP0 D1 shots at BS4+. It's basically a super alpha strike list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 This sux: same problem with primaris. Gulliman castle is the most powerful (but not as strong as tau castle). Idem for Admech mars castle... This is so annoying and boring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I don’t play castle and am working on a complete mech list. It won’t meet the OP’s competitive criteria. I also have only played five games this edition and tend to play on boards with 35 - 50% terrain coverage with plenty of LoS blocks. That said, I use dual missile pods and HOBC on my cold star so I tend to keep him back as a mobile buff unit rather than a suicidal fusion or CIP delivery system. The rest of the list is heavy on SMS, seeker missiles, moderate marker lights via marksmen and drones, and small strike teams with hammerheads and a sky ray. It’s saddening to see the consensus is castle is the only competitive build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 It’s saddening to see the consensus is castle is the only competitive build. Its kinda due to the game mechanic system more than the consensus. In a competitive environment you have to max out the output in a given system and constraints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven 19 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 https://youtu.be/EnFtgjBJl4I This has a fairly good example against an extreme guard list. Be warned it was a while ago so points might've changed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 It’s saddening to see the consensus is castle is the only competitive build. Its kinda due to the game mechanic system more than the consensus. In a competitive environment you have to max out the output in a given system and constraints. Yep. A major reason I left competitive scene more than a decade ago. I remember a similar convo about Thousand Sons earlier this year until somebody won with MSU rubrics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5351691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 A side question: what's about the Eight? Are they worth it (especially in this agressive approach)? The Eight are a wrecking ball, a brittle wrecking ball that will fail hard if it falls short. i.e. if you run out of drones before you have gutted key threats The Eight will get blown off the table pretty fast. I won a couple of RTTs very comfortably with The Eight, if an opponent does not know how to counter them or did not bring the tools you get some very one-sided games. I have my doubts about them in ITC or ETC missions due to the much greater emphasis on kill points, having 7 easily killed units of drones is just so painful in missions which are partially or mostly kill points. With CA18 missions they are very strong : they play OK-ish in their weakest mission and are super strong in two of them. The Mirrorcodex at http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29693 is a good primer on running The Eight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5352321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Thx, I found this mirorcodex just before your message ;-) The problem with the 8 is that you're stuck with 1120 points in the 8. I'll pass for now. aybe later when I'm better with tau... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5352629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 That Mirrorcodex is an excellent read, cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5352706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 That Mirrorcodex is an excellent read, cheers! Not going to take credit for it, not my work. I can see the imprint of one or two of my bits of feedback in it but I did not write it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5353232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Thx, I found this mirorcodex just before your message ;-) The problem with the 8 is that you're stuck with 1120 points in the 8. I'll pass for now. aybe later when I'm better with tau... The Eight are a bit of everything - other than all being battlesuits and drones which does after all fit the FSE theme perfectly. It is not just one big thing for your 1120 points. The question was are they worth it. The answer is that yes they are - although think twice in a top level ITC or ETC format environment due to the kill points that they inevitably bleed. I would regard that more of an issue with ITC/ETC not moving with the shifts in the underlying game and sticking with a clumsy Kill Point mechanic in which GW have seen problems and moved away from. The Eight were a CA18 thing and if you look at the missions GW published with that they work very well. They work less well with older mission sets that still have that old clunky kill point mechanic, they would work fine with a mechanic that scored kill points by points cost or PL just not with that tired old mechanic of VP per unit. Even with ETC/ITC mission sets if you are just playing smaller more local tournaments I think you would do fine with The Eight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5353240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Is there a way to view the images in the mirror codex? I signed up to the boards yet they're all still "you do not have permission" etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5353256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Is there a way to view the images in the mirror codex? I signed up to the boards yet they're all still "you do not have permission" etc Honestly I have no idea what the problem is - they are all working for me. Still work when I am logged out so I am at a loss to understand why it does not work for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5353326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Have some crisis in reserve, have firewarriors in devilfish/warfish push up super aggressively, pihranas with fusion blasters out in front to block/hinder opponent movement. Deploy someplace, deploy your firewarriors, shoot the crap out of stuff, grab them by the nose and kick them in the butt, when things get dicey, say "Shas'el, tell your warriors to hold their position...reinforcement is on the spoke" Drop Farsight and 30 crisis suits and drones down. Kill EVERYONE. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357264-tau-with-no-castle-how-to/#findComment-5354656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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