The terminator project

[Joukernaut]

Terminators have always been my favourite models in the entire space marine range. I have collected many terminators of all kinds over the years and have now decided to try and make a first company strikeforce of mainly terminators work in semi-competitive play. The theme is terminators, vehicles that can carry terminators and dreadnoughts.

I plan to play many games with it and eventually play them in my FLG store tournament. I usually try to win the event with something no oneis playing. This year I actually managed to win it playing grey knights.

I brought twenty terminators along on my vacation to paint up as a start to this project. (I used contrast but reckon I’ll have to do a lot of repainting to get them on par with the rest of my army).

I only play painted models, and at the moment I have the following terminators available:

Painted:
Terminator librarian stave/stormshield
Terminator captain stormshield/thunderhammer
2 squads of regular termies, all options available
2 squads of thunderhammer/stormshield termies
1 squad of lightning claws termies

Unpainted/unbuilt
Termiantor chaplain
Terminator librarian
Terminator captain melta chainfist
1 squad of lightnig claw termies
10 regular termies
10 cataphractii termies
10 tartaros termies

Vehicles painted:
Landraider crusader
2 venerable dreadnoughts
2 ironclad dreadnoughts
Leviathan dreadnought

Vehicles not painted:
Landraider redeemer
Landraider
Stormraven
3 regular dreadnoughts
1 venerable dreadnought
2 plastic contemptor dreadnoughts

I also don’t mind throwing in some extra cash to buy anything if it will be of use in the list.

I realise terminators are not very good at the moment, but I am interested in your input in how I can make the best list possible.
The tournament is probably 1250, my practice games are usually 2000.
At the moment I’m in the theorycrafting stage of my list and am interested in input.
What do you think are the best terminator units and what makes them good. What are the things terminators can do good and what are things they cannot do.

Any input will be highly appreciated, I will try stuff and report back for additional feedback.
I’ll also update my working list once I have one.

[Kierdale]

I can’t help with list building but I do love a bit of TDA and look forward to seeing how this goes.

If all-TDA looks difficult then you could always change to ‘1st company’ and allow stern/vanguard veterans too.

[Joukernaut]

I definately think adding sternguard en vanguard would add to the competitiveness of the army. I am however determined to try and make a full terminator list work for me. Our meta has only a handfull of netlisting guys, and a lot of guys like myself, who try to make their army work with the units they like. It is however very likely I will run into some very nasty lists, so it’s veryimportant that I learn the ins and outs of using terminators and what they can and cannot do.

[Prot]

I love the premise.

 

Load out and placement are going to be key. I’d probably deepstrike Cataphractii and put regular terms in land raiders for heavy fire support. Calgar in Terminator armour marching up for Max rerolls.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d bring an assassin just cuz.

[Joukernaut]

I love the premise.

Load out and placement are going to be key. I’d probably deepstrike Cataphractii and put regular terms in land raiders for heavy fire support. Calgar in Terminator armour marching up for Max rerolls.

I hadn’t really considered Calgar in terminator armour even though I own the model, thanks for that one Prot.

What would you consider as a default loadout for the cataphractii?

I’d bring an assassin just cuz.

Assassins are not terminators unfortunately, and would break what I’m trying to accomplish.

[quasistellar]

Throw in an Inquisitor in terminator armor for kicks and giggles :P

[Captain Idaho]

Yep 10 Cataphractii Terminators deepstriking in with a Librarian with Veil of Time seem like a good move for an all Terminators list. Just grants some attacking potential.

 

It's quite counterable for an opponent mind so it won't break the game or anything.

 

Storm Ravens can carry Dreadnoughts alongside Terminators so provide an attacking element that could be crucial.

 

Contemptors move very swiftly so consider them also.

[Joukernaut]

Yep 10 Cataphractii Terminators deepstriking in with a Librarian with Veil of Time seem like a good move for an all Terminators list. Just grants some attacking potential.

It's quite counterable for an opponent mind so it won't break the game or anything.

Storm Ravens can carry Dreadnoughts alongside Terminators so provide an attacking element that could be crucial.

Contemptors move very swiftly so consider them also.

Again the advice for cataphractii, looks like I’m building some soon. What would gou consider the best loadout?

[Captain Idaho]

Power Fists are pretty cheap now but I've toyed with the following load out to bring down costs:

 

Cataphractii Sergeant - Chainfist and Aux grenade launcher

Cataphractii Terminators ×1 - Chainfist

Cataphractii Terminators ×3 Power Fists

Cataphractii Terminators ×3 single Lightning Claw

 

Quite flexible but if I built them again I might focus on power fists.

[Joukernaut]

I’m debating taking all chainfists to negate any armour saves and the steady 2 damage. My only hesitation is the points and them matbe not makkng assault.

I’ll do some experiments with thunderhammer terminators soon, to see if they can fill the assault factor, even though I think I might be better of taking a unit that can do both in1250.

I think I’ll have to play a list with a knight in testing to see if I can ignore it and play the mission or if I have to try and tackle it.

[Joukernaut]

I’m reading up on all the rules regarding termjnators and I stumbled on an interesting question.

Does anyone know if I can screen out deepstriking with a teleport homer?

[Joukernaut]

I've got my first practice game tomorrow.

I'm bringing the list below, since this is what I have painted at the moment.

It's not optimized obviously, but at least it will give me some experience with a terminator only list.

 

 

+ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [115 PL, 1,999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Captain in Terminator Armor [7 PL, 126pts]: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Librarian in Terminator Armor [9 PL, 120pts]: Force stave, Storm shield

+ Elites +

Ironclad Dreadnought [8 PL, 137pts]: Dreadnought chainfist, Hurricane bolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Meltagun

Terminator Assault Squad [12 PL, 205pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. 4x Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

Terminator Assault Squad [12 PL, 175pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant: Lightning Claw (Pair)
. 4x Terminator w/x2LC: 4x Lightning Claw (Pair)

Terminator Assault Squad [12 PL, 205pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. 4x Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

Terminator Squad [24 PL, 411pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant: Power sword, Storm bolter
. Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Power fist
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter
. Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Power fist
. . Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter
. 7x Terminator w/PF: 7x Power fist, 7x Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Crusader [16 PL, 286pts]: 2x Hurricane bolter, Multi-melta, Twin assault cannon

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 334pts]: Twin lascannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers

++ Total: [115 PL, 1,999pts] ++

[Stickeh]

How are you planning to deploy? I’ve flirted with 1st Company lists for quite a while now and you definitely need to account for the deployment options, as turn two deep strike has really hurt the ability for terminators to earn their points back

[Joukernaut]

I plan to put 5 hammernators inside the raven with the dread if I can deploy it out of reach of most guns. Then 5 lightning claws and the captain inside the crusader, the rest in deep strike reserve.

Might be completely different based on scenario and opponent though.

I'll write a brief report after the game with my findings.

[Captain Idaho]

Look forward to seeing how you go. It's a concept that I wish the best of luck to.

 

What powers you looking at for the Librarian? If he's coming in with teleporting units he can cast Veil of Time to assist a charge at 9".

[Joukernaut]

Look forward to seeing how you go. It's a concept that I wish the best of luck to.

 

What powers you looking at for the Librarian? If he's coming in with teleporting units he can cast Veil of Time to assist a charge at 9".

Veil of time is probably one of the spells I'm going to use, but I'll decide what  to use when I see the army of my opponent.

[Joukernaut]

Okay, fist game under my belt and I have learnt a lot.

The game was vs nurgle demons.

his list:

2 great unclean ones

demon prince of nurgle

3x28 paguebearers

3x3 nurglings

6 plague drones

My list was exactly as posted in previous post.

It was game 1 of a mini campaign. We created a way to make three battle campaigns from the vigils books.

The mission was cleanse and capture with the warzone with the storm from vigils ablaze.

So I was on the back foot immediately playing a maelstrom mission with added rules that impaired shooting.

I deployed a unit of hammer terminators in the raider, loaded the raven with lightning, my captain and the ironclad, and place the tactical terminators and the libby in the teleportarium.

He placed one GUO in the warp and deployed screening everything with plague bearers and the nurslings as far forward as possible.

TURN ONE

He got first turn and he grabbed the board, and even worse, he managed to get the GUO and most of his units inside the storm, effectively canceling my next shootingfase. He also grabbed some points.

I moved up shot some nurslings, plague bearers and a drone, got first blood and a random point.

End of turn 1 score: nurgle 2:2 first company strike force

TURN TWO

He got some good cards turn two, even though he wouldn't be able to kill anything since he had nearly no shooting and I placed everything out of charge range. The storm crossed the table to my side, screening his most front units from shooting. He scored 3 points

I decided to overload his left flank with the raven and the unit of ten to try and lure him that way and smash a hole in his plaguevearers, since this were the only units I could effectively shoot.

I unloaded all the small weaponry in his back unit since he gave his most forward unit the 4+ with the strat, killing 17, and wiffed the lascanons, meltas and missiles doing 0 wounds against a GUO. Then it got ugly, I charged his front unit of plague bearers with the unit of 10 terminators, fighting twice, killing only 6 due to -2 to hit, so 42 attacks need me 6 dead plague bearers. It did secure me psychological warfare since he could only save one unit of plague bearers with the strat. 2 points for me

End of turn two score: nurgle 5:4 first company strike force

TURN THREE

This is the turn where I basically loose the game.

He draws incredible cards and decides to keep pushing forward, ignoring my bait on the flank. He kills a unit of hammernators with the prince and flies.

He scores 5 points.

I teleport the big unit back to the front line, unload all the boaters on a big unit of plague bearers and he rolls disgustingly good and looses only a few from about 100 boltershots. The stromraven riffs all of his shots again doing only one wound to a GUO. I charge across the entire line and again he keeps rolling disgustingly well completely negating me any points.

end of turn score gurgle 10:4 first company strike force

TURN 4

He scores nothing, smites a bunch of terminators and kills some more in combat.

I keep pushing hard, killing lots of plague bearers, but he regains 6 with his morale test. I pour many shots in his demonprince, bringing him down to one wound. I charge in with the raider for mortal wounds, but roll a 3, oh I wish I still had a CP. I bring one GUO to 3 wounds with the raven and lightning claw terminators. I score 1 point.

end of turn score nurgle 10:5 first company strike force

TURN 5

He draws well again, but looses steam in combat, only killing the librarian. I protected my units pretty well and tagged the prince with the raiders, the GUO's are locked out due to the plague bearers. He still scores 5.

I draw terrible again.

I finish my turn, kill off a GUO, bringing the other down to 10, fail to kill the prince and kill 6 plague bearers, that immediately return with a 1 for morale.

I score 2 points and concede.

the final score: gurgle 15:7 first company.

Lessons learned about a terminator only army:

• deploying in the teleportarium against non shooty armies might not be the best option
• I lack psychic defense, and smite hurts, a lot!
• too many powerfists and hammers will severely hamper close combat without rerolls, especially against invuln saves
• I love hammer terminators, but I truly doubt their effectiveness after this match
• stormbolters are awesome, especially combined with frag shots from the missile launchers
• Teleport homers are awesome for repositioning, protecting them is key
• The stormraven probably needs rerolls to perform well, and some assistance to be sure to take something out.
• The balance between under and overcommitting my army is a fine line.

Very fun game, very hard on my side, very well played by my opponent.

I learned a lot, and I definitely see my list needs some work.

[Captain Idaho]

Nice report. Can't do much about that many Bolters just bouncing off opponent rolls.

 

Librarians might be useful. What else do you think you can add to help out?

[Joukernaut]

Taking into account that I experienced a strong weakness vs psychic powers and smite and a very strong resilience against melee attacks, these are the thoughts I've had so far.

• Mixed squads of assault terminators, 4 claws, 2 hammers. The hammers for the invulnerable save, the claws for the killing. Preferably with rerolls of either a chaplain or a chapter master or less optimal from stratagems like wisdom of the ancients or scions of Guilliman.
• Terminators with stormbolters and lightning claws, so that leaves me with cataphractii. At least 10 of them.
• Marneus Calgar
• Characters with combi-weapons
• A librarius conclave. Even though it's probably too expensive I'm actually considering it. It will give me psychic defence, psychic fortress, a reliable null zone as well as acces to mortal wound output through psychic scourge, smite and fury of the ancients.
• A (relic) contemptor dreadnought. Even though the ironclad did fairly well and I really like it, he's too vulnerable to commit without being sure to get the charge of. I'm trying to avoid the leviathan, even though I know he would be great and I own one.

[Joukernaut]

Looks like I’m postponing building anything until the codex arrives.

The extra attack will go a long way in my project, to me it’s a very welcome buff of terminators.

[Joukernaut]

I predict I'm painting my chaplain in terminator armor for this project soon! Looking so forward to it, I love chaplains, but they just have been outshined by captains this edition.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah a Terminator Chaplain looks important and will be a good choice going forward. I'm getting one myself.

[mel_danes]

The Terminator Chaplain mini is wonderful. So much character packed into it.

I have the metal version, such a great kit.

Chaplain's could become good, in about 2 weeks.

[Joukernaut]

Oh my, this new codex is going to buff my project in so many ways, but stormbolters with -1AP sounds very, very tasty. I'm crossing my fingers to landraiders getting the assault vehicle rule again, but I would be surprised if they don't.