Black Templar lore info in the July White Dwarf.

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

Did anyone else see the reader questions in this month's White Dwarf? I'm at work so I can't take a picture right now. But a reader asked whether BT are going to get librarians now that we have Primaris. You know, because maybe Cawl fixed their "geneseed flaw." The answer was no, as everyone expected. But the reasoning behind the answer is what made me smile. He said that no one really knows why they don't have librarians and that the geneseed flaw is just a rumor. But he seemed to put more emphasis on the ideological reasons and the Council of Nikea.  Anyway it's small but it made me smile.....until I saw the stat line for Eisenhorn, which was my entire reason for buying that issue. But that's a topic for another forum.

[Sete]

Who the in his right mind wants BT to have librarians?

What part of Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch do they not understand?

Still its good that its ideological. Less of gene seed excuse to force them upon us.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Sete

[Link2edition]

Templar: Doing what the Emperor told us to, until he tells us to stop.

[redmapa]

Good, at least SOMEONE in GW knows why we dont have psykers instead of whatever weak lore they decided to cram into us.

[Brother Tyler]

 

ABHOR THE WITCH

 

...It is uncertain how, or when, the Black Templars ceased to field Librarians, for with their disappearance, much of the Chapter's history was also lost...

 

...If the Emperor decides to once again bless the Black Templars with Librarians, they will embrace it, but until that day, they will wage battle without these powerful warriors at their side...

 

...Outsiders mistakenly interpret the lack of Librarians within the ranks of the Black Templars Chapter, and the fury with which its battle-brothers slay Chaos Sorcerers, as an intolerance of all psykers. This is not the case; though the Black Templars do not traditionally number psykers amongst their ranks, they hold special reverence for Astropaths, seeing them as holy disciples who have actually communed with the Emperor. Navigators are similarly honoured, for their psychic blessing allows them to see the divine light of the Astronomican and guide the Black Templars through the warp to deliver righteous retribution against the Emperor's enemies.

 

 

The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop.

 

Putting the hyperbole aside, a rational possibility is that circumstances and Chapter culture might evolve (devolve?) to a point where Black Templars librarians might become a thing again. I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't fans of that, but the WD question from a reader indicates that there is at least one person out there who isn't intransigent in clinging to the 3rd - 5th edition lore and is accepting of the possibility (and they are clearly trying to figure out what circumstances might lead to that new direction in the Black Templars' lore).

 

Now I wonder, though, if there is a secret pogrom against psykers, with Chaplains/Apothecaries (or maybe others?) ensuring that neophytes that exhibit psyker potential suffer "accidents" during the process of transformation, failing to live to become initiates. 

[Brother Sheep]

I like the idea that every chapter gets the same amount of librarians.

The huge amount of ETERNAL crusades and the '1000' astartes in our chapter are just too much work.

 

They died of stress

 

After a while they stopped sending them to us

Edited July 23, 2019 by Brother Sheep

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop.

 

You CAN interpret it like that, but it's not the only way. "The Emperor blessing the BT with librarians again", could very well be interpreted as him reversing the edict of Nikea, rather than that they aren't just developing.

 

They're specifically leaving both ways of interpreting it open in the codex, so the idealogical basis can't be dismissed with that they're just not 'developing' among their ranks.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Reinhard

[MegaVolt87]

I always though when the Black Ships showed up to give the chapter psyker recruits, the ships always went missing. When questioned, much BT hand waving and "the Emperor works in mysterious ways". Eventually it was easier to not send the Black Ships anymore I guess. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop.

 

 

The fact that there is a sealed librarius on the Eternal Crusader is confirmed in the book of the same name. The doors are locked and covered with the seals of every High Marshal.

 

If Dorn's antics after Nikea are anything to go by, perhaps they are all still in there!

[Marshal Reinhard]

I always though when the Black Ships showed up to give the chapter psyker recruits, the ships always went missing. When questioned, much BT hand waving and "the Emperor works in mysterious ways". Eventually it was easier to not send the Black Ships anymore I guess. 

 

Yeah, no. Assassinating other Imperium forces in the dark and hiding it is something the Dark Angels does, not the Knights of Dorn. The revulsion of witches and warlocks, has only ever gone so far as to describe us refusing to allying with allied witches (and destroying enemy ones), it's never described Templars as giving themselves license to attack other allied Imperium Psykers.

 

The edict of Nikea only forbade the Astartes from employing psykers (beyond Navigators and Astropaths), but noone beyond that.

 

And I appreciate your post was somewhat in jest.

[Sete]

I would assume they would be be forwarded to the corresponding imperial institutions.

[MegaVolt87]

Well I was joking, though its been known for psykers to break lose on a black ship, so I could see BT just purging the whole thing instead of the escapees just to be sure if they helped out. I would be surprised if they got in trouble for that. 

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

 

 

ABHOR THE WITCH

 

...It is uncertain how, or when, the Black Templars ceased to field Librarians, for with their disappearance, much of the Chapter's history was also lost...

 

...If the Emperor decides to once again bless the Black Templars with Librarians, they will embrace it, but until that day, they will wage battle without these powerful warriors at their side...

 

...Outsiders mistakenly interpret the lack of Librarians within the ranks of the Black Templars Chapter, and the fury with which its battle-brothers slay Chaos Sorcerers, as an intolerance of all psykers. This is not the case; though the Black Templars do not traditionally number psykers amongst their ranks, they hold special reverence for Astropaths, seeing them as holy disciples who have actually communed with the Emperor. Navigators are similarly honoured, for their psychic blessing allows them to see the divine light of the Astronomican and guide the Black Templars through the warp to deliver righteous retribution against the Emperor's enemies.

 

 

The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop.

 

Putting the hyperbole aside, a rational possibility is that circumstances and Chapter culture might evolve (devolve?) to a point where Black Templars librarians might become a thing again. I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't fans of that, but the WD question from a reader indicates that there is at least one person out there who isn't intransigent in clinging to the 3rd - 5th edition lore and is accepting of the possibility (and they are clearly trying to figure out what circumstances might lead to that new direction in the Black Templars' lore).

 

Now I wonder, though, if there is a secret pogrom against psykers, with Chaplains/Apothecaries (or maybe others?) ensuring that neophytes that exhibit psyker potential suffer "accidents" during the process of transformation, failing to live to become initiates. 

 

Well, I seem to recall reading somewhere that BT's scan potential recruits all the way down to the cellular level to ensure that the aspirant in question does not have any genetic flaws. I'm certain that the mutation that would allow psykers to manifest warp powers would pop up during these tests, and subsequently send the would-be aspirant onto the closest black ship available. The ideological reasons, the practical reasons, and our own tests are probably all combined to keep us without them.

Fine by me. We don't need them anyway. Just opens up more room for chain sword wielding zealots!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Nothing in the fluff would give me that certainty. I don't think they have a test for the psychic gene at all in the Imperium, because if they did, it would be the most important technological advance ever. If you could predict at, or even pre-birth, who the payments were, the Imperium would likely remove them all then. Untrained psykers are one of the biggest threats to humanity, so why not prioritise their removal early if you can?

I also considered in this theory the fact that technology is so poorly consistent across the Imperium, but even places like Macragge, which are almost utopian by common standards still produce latent psychic recruits.

[Lord Blackwood]

I  would  be thoroughly amused if Templars got this massive new release 

Primaris Sword Brothers 
Mini Dex 
Custom Primaris close combat unit 
Primaris Emperors Champion 

A Black Templar Specific Psychic Discipline 
Where You have 3 buffs for close combat units 
1 Ability to Targets Psykers directly and fills them with so much hate they explode 
1 Leadership  ability  that inversely effects the enemy per number of psykers that are near 
1 Purely Offensive ability thats just like.....the fist of dorn or something that smacks the battlefield and splashes mortal wounds on everything. 

But all your templars can target your own psyker  an he must die in order to secure victory 

Because you know , hate the witch and all 

[Marshal Rohr]

Nothing in the fluff would give me that certainty. I don't think they have a test for the psychic gene at all in the Imperium, because if they did, it would be the most important technological advance ever. If you could predict at, or even pre-birth, who the payments were, the Imperium would likely remove them all then. Untrained psykers are one of the biggest threats to humanity, so why not prioritise their removal early if you can?

I also considered in this theory the fact that technology is so poorly consistent across the Imperium, but even places like Macragge, which are almost utopian by common standards still produce latent psychic recruits.

 

There is some kind of screening process for psykers because its mentioned as how Grey Knights are selected and Librarians are recruited beyond just levitating a table by accident. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, there is A process, but it cannot be a certainty, otherwise other chapters wouldn't experience latent psykers.

[Marshal Rohr]

Fair point, but I wasn't trying to contradict you. I was just saying something exists to screen for known signs. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's the Internet, I was trying to signify my agreement in a similar way!

[Sersi]

Or we still have latent Psykers in the ranks but they are not trained and don't function as Librarians. Remember that after the edict of Nikea existing Librarians were transferred back into the ranks. They weren't killed off or shipped off elsewhere. They were just forbidden to use their powers, and went on serving as regular marines. If the Templars don't except recruits from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, then they just need to be bit stricter when screening candidates. No Psyker of any real power enters the chapter, but now you have a reason for all the visions that end up coming true including the Emperor's Champion's if you want to take it that far. No conspiracy needed.

[Guest Triszin]

*pokes head into thread*

 

the only way I could see it,

 

Latent psykers become emperors champion(s) plural.

Their melee's trigger a mortal would on a natural 6 to wound.

+ give them 2 deny the witch rolls.

 

no discipline. just over drive the emperors champion

Edited July 26, 2019 by Triszin

[Marshal Vespasian]

*pokes head into thread*

 

the only way I could see it,

 

Latent psykers become emperors champion(s) plural.

Their melee's trigger a mortal would on a natural 6 to wound.

+ give them 2 deny the witch rolls.

 

no discipline. just over drive the emperors champion

 

I was thinking something similar. Dont give us some psyker, give us sword brethren with a latent psychic boost to their skills and an actual deny the witch

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I suggested that the latents become Champions years ago and got branded as a heretic!

 

It would make sense though,

[Sete]

Emperor Champions being psykers is the most vile heresy ever conceived.

They receive a vision from the Emperor. Its accepted in lore that the Emperor can do that.

Then they kick ass and die. no psykerish shenanigans involved, nor there is a need to be. I will burn you people!

[Marshal Reinhard]

To be fair, the visions probably technically ARE psychic in nature. But the psyker involved is the Emperor, he''s pretty much a psychic creature at this point. 

 

 

On the other hand the psychic aptitude of the Champion should be no more than that of the level which is inherrent all other Templars, marines, guardsmen or humans as whole, (To contrast with Tau, which have virtually none) You're not classified as a psyker for this very base level, it's nowhere near enough.