+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Did anyone else see the reader questions in this month's White Dwarf? I'm at work so I can't take a picture right now. But a reader asked whether BT are going to get librarians now that we have Primaris. You know, because maybe Cawl fixed their "geneseed flaw." The answer was no, as everyone expected. But the reasoning behind the answer is what made me smile. He said that no one really knows why they don't have librarians and that the geneseed flaw is just a rumor. But he seemed to put more emphasis on the ideological reasons and the Council of Nikea. Anyway it's small but it made me smile.....until I saw the stat line for Eisenhorn, which was my entire reason for buying that issue. But that's a topic for another forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Who the in his right mind wants BT to have librarians? What part of Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch do they not understand? Still its good that its ideological. Less of gene seed excuse to force them upon us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5350981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Templar: Doing what the Emperor told us to, until he tells us to stop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Good, at least SOMEONE in GW knows why we dont have psykers instead of whatever weak lore they decided to cram into us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 ABHOR THE WITCH ...It is uncertain how, or when, the Black Templars ceased to field Librarians, for with their disappearance, much of the Chapter's history was also lost... ...If the Emperor decides to once again bless the Black Templars with Librarians, they will embrace it, but until that day, they will wage battle without these powerful warriors at their side... ...Outsiders mistakenly interpret the lack of Librarians within the ranks of the Black Templars Chapter, and the fury with which its battle-brothers slay Chaos Sorcerers, as an intolerance of all psykers. This is not the case; though the Black Templars do not traditionally number psykers amongst their ranks, they hold special reverence for Astropaths, seeing them as holy disciples who have actually communed with the Emperor. Navigators are similarly honoured, for their psychic blessing allows them to see the divine light of the Astronomican and guide the Black Templars through the warp to deliver righteous retribution against the Emperor's enemies. The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop. Putting the hyperbole aside, a rational possibility is that circumstances and Chapter culture might evolve (devolve?) to a point where Black Templars librarians might become a thing again. I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't fans of that, but the WD question from a reader indicates that there is at least one person out there who isn't intransigent in clinging to the 3rd - 5th edition lore and is accepting of the possibility (and they are clearly trying to figure out what circumstances might lead to that new direction in the Black Templars' lore). Now I wonder, though, if there is a secret pogrom against psykers, with Chaplains/Apothecaries (or maybe others?) ensuring that neophytes that exhibit psyker potential suffer "accidents" during the process of transformation, failing to live to become initiates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sheep Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I like the idea that every chapter gets the same amount of librarians. The huge amount of ETERNAL crusades and the '1000' astartes in our chapter are just too much work. They died of stress After a while they stopped sending them to us Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop. You CAN interpret it like that, but it's not the only way. "The Emperor blessing the BT with librarians again", could very well be interpreted as him reversing the edict of Nikea, rather than that they aren't just developing. They're specifically leaving both ways of interpreting it open in the codex, so the idealogical basis can't be dismissed with that they're just not 'developing' among their ranks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I always though when the Black Ships showed up to give the chapter psyker recruits, the ships always went missing. When questioned, much BT hand waving and "the Emperor works in mysterious ways". Eventually it was easier to not send the Black Ships anymore I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop. The fact that there is a sealed librarius on the Eternal Crusader is confirmed in the book of the same name. The doors are locked and covered with the seals of every High Marshal. If Dorn's antics after Nikea are anything to go by, perhaps they are all still in there! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5351990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I always though when the Black Ships showed up to give the chapter psyker recruits, the ships always went missing. When questioned, much BT hand waving and "the Emperor works in mysterious ways". Eventually it was easier to not send the Black Ships anymore I guess. Yeah, no. Assassinating other Imperium forces in the dark and hiding it is something the Dark Angels does, not the Knights of Dorn. The revulsion of witches and warlocks, has only ever gone so far as to describe us refusing to allying with allied witches (and destroying enemy ones), it's never described Templars as giving themselves license to attack other allied Imperium Psykers. The edict of Nikea only forbade the Astartes from employing psykers (beyond Navigators and Astropaths), but noone beyond that. And I appreciate your post was somewhat in jest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I would assume they would be be forwarded to the corresponding imperial institutions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Well I was joking, though its been known for psykers to break lose on a black ship, so I could see BT just purging the whole thing instead of the escapees just to be sure if they helped out. I would be surprised if they got in trouble for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWORD BROTHER RYAN Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 ABHOR THE WITCH ...It is uncertain how, or when, the Black Templars ceased to field Librarians, for with their disappearance, much of the Chapter's history was also lost... ...If the Emperor decides to once again bless the Black Templars with Librarians, they will embrace it, but until that day, they will wage battle without these powerful warriors at their side... ...Outsiders mistakenly interpret the lack of Librarians within the ranks of the Black Templars Chapter, and the fury with which its battle-brothers slay Chaos Sorcerers, as an intolerance of all psykers. This is not the case; though the Black Templars do not traditionally number psykers amongst their ranks, they hold special reverence for Astropaths, seeing them as holy disciples who have actually communed with the Emperor. Navigators are similarly honoured, for their psychic blessing allows them to see the divine light of the Astronomican and guide the Black Templars through the warp to deliver righteous retribution against the Emperor's enemies. The implication is that the Black Templars Chapter had Librarians at one time, but ceased at some point (possibly when they began to worship the Emperor as a god. And the lore clearly states that the Black Templars will welcome psykers into their ranks if any ever develop. Putting the hyperbole aside, a rational possibility is that circumstances and Chapter culture might evolve (devolve?) to a point where Black Templars librarians might become a thing again. I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't fans of that, but the WD question from a reader indicates that there is at least one person out there who isn't intransigent in clinging to the 3rd - 5th edition lore and is accepting of the possibility (and they are clearly trying to figure out what circumstances might lead to that new direction in the Black Templars' lore). Now I wonder, though, if there is a secret pogrom against psykers, with Chaplains/Apothecaries (or maybe others?) ensuring that neophytes that exhibit psyker potential suffer "accidents" during the process of transformation, failing to live to become initiates. Well, I seem to recall reading somewhere that BT's scan potential recruits all the way down to the cellular level to ensure that the aspirant in question does not have any genetic flaws. I'm certain that the mutation that would allow psykers to manifest warp powers would pop up during these tests, and subsequently send the would-be aspirant onto the closest black ship available. The ideological reasons, the practical reasons, and our own tests are probably all combined to keep us without them. Fine by me. We don't need them anyway. Just opens up more room for chain sword wielding zealots! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Nothing in the fluff would give me that certainty. I don't think they have a test for the psychic gene at all in the Imperium, because if they did, it would be the most important technological advance ever. If you could predict at, or even pre-birth, who the payments were, the Imperium would likely remove them all then. Untrained psykers are one of the biggest threats to humanity, so why not prioritise their removal early if you can? I also considered in this theory the fact that technology is so poorly consistent across the Imperium, but even places like Macragge, which are almost utopian by common standards still produce latent psychic recruits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I would be thoroughly amused if Templars got this massive new release Primaris Sword Brothers Mini Dex Custom Primaris close combat unit Primaris Emperors Champion A Black Templar Specific Psychic Discipline Where You have 3 buffs for close combat units 1 Ability to Targets Psykers directly and fills them with so much hate they explode 1 Leadership ability that inversely effects the enemy per number of psykers that are near 1 Purely Offensive ability thats just like.....the fist of dorn or something that smacks the battlefield and splashes mortal wounds on everything. But all your templars can target your own psyker an he must die in order to secure victory Because you know , hate the witch and all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Nothing in the fluff would give me that certainty. I don't think they have a test for the psychic gene at all in the Imperium, because if they did, it would be the most important technological advance ever. If you could predict at, or even pre-birth, who the payments were, the Imperium would likely remove them all then. Untrained psykers are one of the biggest threats to humanity, so why not prioritise their removal early if you can? I also considered in this theory the fact that technology is so poorly consistent across the Imperium, but even places like Macragge, which are almost utopian by common standards still produce latent psychic recruits. There is some kind of screening process for psykers because its mentioned as how Grey Knights are selected and Librarians are recruited beyond just levitating a table by accident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Yeah, there is A process, but it cannot be a certainty, otherwise other chapters wouldn't experience latent psykers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Fair point, but I wasn't trying to contradict you. I was just saying something exists to screen for known signs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5352837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 It's the Internet, I was trying to signify my agreement in a similar way! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Or we still have latent Psykers in the ranks but they are not trained and don't function as Librarians. Remember that after the edict of Nikea existing Librarians were transferred back into the ranks. They weren't killed off or shipped off elsewhere. They were just forbidden to use their powers, and went on serving as regular marines. If the Templars don't except recruits from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, then they just need to be bit stricter when screening candidates. No Psyker of any real power enters the chapter, but now you have a reason for all the visions that end up coming true including the Emperor's Champion's if you want to take it that far. No conspiracy needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 *pokes head into thread* the only way I could see it, Latent psykers become emperors champion(s) plural. Their melee's trigger a mortal would on a natural 6 to wound. + give them 2 deny the witch rolls. no discipline. just over drive the emperors champion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 *pokes head into thread* the only way I could see it, Latent psykers become emperors champion(s) plural. Their melee's trigger a mortal would on a natural 6 to wound. + give them 2 deny the witch rolls. no discipline. just over drive the emperors champion I was thinking something similar. Dont give us some psyker, give us sword brethren with a latent psychic boost to their skills and an actual deny the witch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I suggested that the latents become Champions years ago and got branded as a heretic! It would make sense though, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Emperor Champions being psykers is the most vile heresy ever conceived. They receive a vision from the Emperor. Its accepted in lore that the Emperor can do that. Then they kick ass and die. no psykerish shenanigans involved, nor there is a need to be. I will burn you people! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 To be fair, the visions probably technically ARE psychic in nature. But the psyker involved is the Emperor, he''s pretty much a psychic creature at this point. On the other hand the psychic aptitude of the Champion should be no more than that of the level which is inherrent all other Templars, marines, guardsmen or humans as whole, (To contrast with Tau, which have virtually none) You're not classified as a psyker for this very base level, it's nowhere near enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357295-black-templar-lore-info-in-the-july-white-dwarf/#findComment-5353235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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