Charlo Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/25/more-knights-more-awesome-new-faq-and-update-now-livegw-homepage-post-2/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kknightsfaq250719&fbclid=IwAR1d20d5bkwfpU4-NHzjhzAwK30WgdEvzRQ2-LXT3VfqkhlqZafpff6w26I As it says on the tin, they've tightened up the Chaos Knight rules with an FAQ and updated all the datasheets for Forge World Knights aswell! PLUS the new Acastus Knight Asterius and the forthcoming Armiger Moriax now have datasheets too! Those Moriax weapons are gnarly! One change I've noticed is the Stytrix and Magaera have moved to a base 5++, though that was probably expected. I'd also wager that means the Moriax upgrades are on sale this Friday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 What I've spotted so far: - All FW Knights lost their 4+/5+ Ionic Flare Shields, now only simple 5+ for everyone (Lancer kept its special shield) - All Cerastus Knights lost Flank Speed and Bless Autosimulacra - Points remain unchanged across the board - Porphyrion lost its 2+ BS, same points - Asterius is more or less the same as Porphyrion, but worse firepower at closer ranges while better at 48+. Doesn't seem worth it. - Acheron's Chainfist no more -1 to hit. Same points. Probably still not worth it due to loss of Flank Speed. - Atrapos got a NASTY additional profile for its Graviton Cannon: Singularity 36" Heavy D6+4 14 -4 3 on a 1-3, the bearer suffers D3 mortal wounds. Loss of Flare Shield hurt badly though - Castigator got a massive buff: Bolt Cannon is now 16 shots, Tempest Warblade doubles attacks but down to 3 damage (from 5). Chaos players gonna love this. Could still be interesting for loyalists with Blessed by the Sacristans - Lancer got a buff for its lance, 8 damage and double strength on charge instead of re-rolling hits, which is great when playing Krast. Losing Flank Speed hurts though. Again, same points. - Magaera's Lightning Cannon is finally usefull (AP now -2, Damage flat 3 instead of D3). Now more flare shield though, so not worth it. - Styrix unchanged except for one additional AP on the Graviton Crusher. Due to loss of Ionic Flare Shield no longer interesting - Moirax looks amazing. Will have to play around with some ideas before coming to a conclusion. Love the look of double Lightning Locks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5352882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 I saw other places said some points have gone down...? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5352890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Losing my Lancers flank speed makes me sad Running him with as Krast with extra attack and the relic however... 5 Rerollable str 16, damage 10, -4 ap attacks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5352894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I've done the math on the points. Unless I missed something they all look exactly the same. The more I look the the Moirax, the more I like the double Lightning Lock version. That's an average of 12 hits at S6 -2 D1 or in other words: One dead squad of Guardsmen. Conversion Beam Cannon can only be take on one arm, so it's rather pointless since the other arm will always be out of range at the optimal engagement range for the Conversion Beam. Volkite is worse than Helverin Cannon unless you're shooting specifically at 2 wound targets. Graviton pulsar + siege Claw + Rad cleanser could be tasty, coming in 12 points cheaper than the Warglaive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5352897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSquishiness Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Porphy has been hit. Hard. Anything that had Ionic flare shield (the magaera, styrix and atrapos believe) has been nerfed. The atrapos gun is stupid now. The overcharged version shouldn't be the same damage. Losing the extra shot if the lascutter kills something is annoying. All cerastus Knights losing flank speed is really annoying. GW are clueless... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I already struggled to bring my beloved Porphyrion into my lists. Losing Toughness, BS AND the 5+ heal without a significant point decrease just makes him unplayable in a semicompetitive setting. Very unhappy about this. Will be reluctant to buy any more FW models if they handle balancing this poorly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 They are still very good. And I like that the Magaera is usable now...... and now I need a few moirax Armigers..... Just looked and the Moirax isn’t showing up on the FW site.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 They are still very good. And I like that the Magaera is usable now...... and now I need a few moirax Armigers..... Just looked and the Moirax isn’t showing up on the FW site.... Moirax are now up (on the UK site at least) My favourite models (and thats how id choose FW purchases) are the castigator and the atrapos, both still seem usable to me. Castigator seems a cool anti-MEQ/TEQ, 16 shots, and then 8 S14, AP-3 D3 attacks in combat - seems decent atrapos got some nerfs, but now has a 5++ against both shooting and melee (and as far as i can see, theres no reason you cant rotate ion shields in the melee phase either if its attacked - so it can have a 4++ in combat too), and that graviton singularity shot is fun (really not bothered about losing 1d3 mortal wounds in a game where that unit can be shot off the board in one turn anyway) Knight lancer also looks like it could do serious damage too, but its probably the one hit hardest by the loss of flank speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 They are still very good. And I like that the Magaera is usable now...... and now I need a few moirax Armigers..... Just looked and the Moirax isn’t showing up on the FW site.... The Moirax look interesting, I agree. Other than that, are we looking at the same units? The Megaera is about 510 points! I can't conceive of a reality where that unit is worth taking at that price. And this is the problem. These were units that weren't exactly setting the competitive scene on fire before, now they've had broad changes made which have resulted in overall nerfs, but haven't taken a points reduction to match. Why would anyone ever take them now outside of the most rose-tinted fluff argument? The Lancer has probably gotten off least scathed here, but at 420 points, why take it over a Gallant which can do *more* damage, with its free relic gauntlet, for fewer points? I completely get it has a invuln in melee but when you took it before that was a bonus, not the reason. You took it for its ability to make a potential first turn charge via flank speed - something a Gallant can't do. They remain incredible models, but without a points decrease to offset the losses, they will be incredible models that will do an excellent job of holding down paper on their owners desks. Remember, they were not taken seriously before this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Lancer is probably the one they could have justified keeping Flank Speed on. Have just realised that you can run a 12cp pure knight force! 3x gallant Errant 2x double claw Moirax 1739 points, so 11 left to flavour the moirax most probably Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 House Vulker. Moirax with twin Lightning Locks. Saturation Bombardment. Pew pew pew Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Atrapos always had a save in melee, lost its 4++ in shooting. It also lost reroll to hit with the cutter but Macro Extinction Protocols is +1 to hit in melee too. I dont think the gun is worth it unless you're finishing something off or putting something into a bottom bracket. I love my Atrapos(they also changed the spelling) but losing flank speed hurt a lot. Both the Atrapos and Lancer want to be in CC asap. They other cerastus weren't advancing unless they were house raven. I'm very, very happy I can use my Asterius though, despite it being pretty bad. I did some rough math on the Moirax, all the guns seems useful against their seemingly intended targets with the volkite being the allrounder. Definitely a typo not being able to take two conversion weapons because it's useless paired with another short range gun. I preordered one of each. Styrix gun got worse, traded an extra hit which could have been d6 more damage for 1mw. The Magaera still has a ghost +40 point tacked on for no reason but its gun is much better. Preysight got better. I use Taranis for my knights so only my Atrapos is feeling the loss of flank speed but they all could have done with a points drop.overall a wash for some and net nerf for others with a points drop. Makes me worried about their future Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5353569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Back from Greenland. Yeah, all those nerfs suck. Porphyrion with WL trait and relic almost seemed usable. And that styrix just moved to the lower end of the Pile of Shame. Well, it does seem like I'll have to order the new knights, considering now I could actually field them. And they are gorgeous models. The acastus seems rather underpowered, but for me it's a centerpiece model like the Warhound - looks nice, gets fielded maybe twice a year when points don't matter, just a lot more detailed than a warhound. But the armigers on the other hand look interesting to field - the double lighning lock version runs pretty close to Cawl-boosted dakkabots in firepower (12 average hits vs. dakkabots' 13,5, same profile, just not ignoring cover). Just without the downsides - more wounds, fast enough to avoid CC and cap objectives, move without penalty, don't need Cawl and don't have the doctrina problem. Knightly buffs are worse than AdMech buffs and they're slightly more expensive (not counting Cawl), but all points making baymaxes unwieldy to use are missing - just field them, point at something and it gets the job done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357344-fw-knights-update-new-rules/#findComment-5358696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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