Principia Titanicus

[Sword Brother Adelard]

In a non-extergimus list I'd take a volcano and a quake. In the Extergimus I think the volcano is overkill, and a bit too much of a heat liability.

 

Double beam psi Titan is deadly. It can two shot most titans in one round of shooting. Fire the left hand at the body, (auto hit and bypass) and you've got amazing odds of taking down the voids. Auto hit the Volkite and it's a kill.

[Mandragola]

Double quake is a legitimately great load-out, especially in Extermigus. There’s a kind of weird edge case for giving it turbo lasers instead of missiles but realistically I doubt that’s a good call.

 

I wouldn’t put a volkite on a psi-titan. We’ve all seen how double-bellicosa warlords overheat and die. The sinistramanus generates heat so pairing it with another hot gun is a strict no-no. You’re just not allowed to have your 750 point titan cook its own shields, as cool as it may be to have two beam weapons. A macro Gatling is a better gun anyway most of the time.

[Mandragola]

Woohoo, we have a new titan! The rules for the Dire Wolf are now out in the wild and can be found in places like this Goonhammer Review: https://www.goonhammer.com/warlord-wednesdays-dire-wolf-review-adeptus-titanicus-tactics/

 

I’ve got some thoughts of my own on the Dire Wolf, which I’ll share here.

 

The first thing is that it’s exciting to have a new titan that we can bring in “normal” games. This isn’t some 1100 point monstrocity like the Warmaster and it’s not a slightly awkward not-sure-what like the Warbringer. This is something new, but what, exactly, and how can we make best use of it?

 

Looking at the base platform you have an engine that’s only marginally tougher than a Warhound (i.e. not tough at all) costing 265 with the Neutron Laser or 245 with the volcano cannon that you should probably never take.

 

Where it differs from the Warhound is that it’s a bit slower and less manoeuvrable, in exchange for a better reactor (with 3 pips before you go orange) and a third Servitor Clade. That means you can fire the draining gun on top of it with a reasonable expectation that you won’t overheat. You can also push for speed or shield saves more reliably than a Warhound can.

 

What you’ve got is a sort of non-lethal glass cannon. It’s soft for its price, sneaky and accurate. It wants to shut things down and then have somebody else kill them, while avoiding retribution as well as it can. It has a very binary effect – it either shuts down the enemy or does almost nothing, so you’re going to want to find ways to make sure that one S7 shot succeeds in damaging its target. Anything that raises its strength, gives rerolls or lets it fire more often will be useful, as will anything that keeps it alive and its reactor cool.

 

You can take your Dire Wolf as part of a maniple or as an auxiliary reinforcement… so take it in a maniple. Maniples like Regia, Ferrox, Precept, Venator, Arcus, Lupercal… and basically anything you add this thing to will benefit it in various ways, so always do that. I’m personally interested to see whether it’s best to have this thing in a Regia maniple, so it can hide in a Warlord’s shields, or in something more aggressive like Lupercal or Ferrox to try and boost its strength. Both are great.

 

The Dire Wolf makes the biggest difference to Legio Audax. For a start, it increases the number of options for titans they can take by 100%. It also gives them whole new maniples they can take, with the Ferrox (yay!), Venator (hmm) and Janissary (whatever). Ferrox warhounds are awesome and were previously unavailable to Audax so a maniple of one of these guys and three hounds will be pretty interesting. It’s less awesome in a Venator maniple because it hasn’t got a good gun for hitting shield-less engines. Repeatedly firing a volcano cannon will cause it to blow up, probably without killing the enemy. Personally then, I’d probably run this thing in a Ferrox maniple as Audax, as much for what it unlocks for other engines as what it gains itself. Like the Warhounds, an Audax Dire Wolf can get tougher armour, and it probably should I think.

 

The Lupercal maniple is the only way most of us will be able to squadron this thing – unless we play a Legio that allows it somehow. Bear in mind it has to replace an optional hound, so you’ll have to bring at least three others for this to be legal. But the good news is that it counts as a Warhound, meaning it’s allowed to join in all the Lupercal squadron fun. It’s pretty much perfect for a coordinated strike to knock down shields, followed up by some other warhound unloading plasma and bolter rounds.

 

Regia is a good choice because it lets your Dire Wolf shelter inside the shields of a Warlord, where it’s likely to get to live a bit longer. As with any glass cannon unit, the Dire Wolf is going to be a high-priority target for your opponent so this is a key trick I think. I think that a full Fureans Regia, probably also containing Iben Faruq, could be pretty terrifying. This thing gains an awful lot from offensive surge – and also a lot of heat of course. I already like running a Regia maniple with my Astorum, as it works really well with the durability they start out with, so adding the ability to switch enemy titans off would be a very nice trick.

 

There’s a case for making a Dire Wolf the Seniores of its maniple. It wants to pass order checks more than a lot of engines I think, with first fire, split fire and repair all likely to come up in games. Some Princeps traits are going to be handy too, notably dominant strategist. After all, if you’re going to switch off an enemy titan a great time to do it is before that titan vaporises your Dire Wolf.

 

The infiltration ability the Dire Wolf comes with opens up some really interesting options. Being able to deploy last is quite nice but can also cause issues, because it means you’ll have fewer drops and be forced to deploy other engines before you might want to. But it does combine extremely well with the ability to infiltrate, letting you set up somewhere you don’t have to worry much about enemy retaliation. And of course you can still deploy in your DZ, taking advantage of that 60” range to hit the enemy safe from most retribution.

 

One interesting thing about the kit is that the arms are, apparently, pre-drilled to take magnets. That’s a bit of a surprise and hints that we might see alternative arm options. That would be a good thing because the VMB isn’t a great option for this thing. After all, its job is to drop shields with its main gun from far away, so a short-ranged shield-stripper is kind of redundant. It could work as a back-up if the main gun fails if you’re close enough, and in a Ferrox/Lupercal maniple it starts to have the strength to actually threaten stuff. Overall though, you’d probably prefer to have something different – maybe something like a turbo laser destructor with a barrel on either side.

 

I’m not totally sure which Legio I’ll paint my Dire Wolf for. Astorum are my main force but in some ways this would be more interesting for Mortis. In particular, it could be fun to infiltrate it and then move another 7” somewhere using March of the Dead, which would probably allow all sorts of fun with side and rear shots. I might try converting a second one of these out of a couple of Warhounds that I’ve got on sprue, though to be honest I like the “real” model and it’s not unreasonably expensive. I’ll probably pick up a second one eventually.

 

What do you think about this thing?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think you underestimate the utility of the Audax Venator, in their version of it it replaces the Reaver, and then the Volcano cannon version comes into its own. Especially with its +1 to hit, maybe paired with Favoured by Fortune for a princeps trait.

 

You can also take one in an Audax Firmus Maniple. Which is a Maniple I've never seen used, but with Audax could be really useful. Firmus is the one where you can force your opponent to target a closer titan, over their chosen target, considering Audax's extra minuses to hit and ability to forward deploy, the ability to swap focus away from the dire wolf could be interesting, if difficult to master.

 

Away from Audax, I'm really excited by this titan, it's going to mix things up quite a bit I reckon, and bring some weird interactions. For instance, if a neutron laser causes a shutdown, that causes voids to collapse, which will mean a DW in a Venator will trigger the Reaver taking a free shot, something which Venators can struggle to do with larger titans with more shields.

 

Where it's going to ruin things is in Legios like Fureans and Ignatum with their specific wargear, and custom legios running Vanguard Fighters, where it will be much easier to keep 6" apart from other titans thanks to its range, and then it will be +2 to hit within 30"!

 

Thematically, it's exactly what I wanted from this model, it's a sniper Titan Destroyer, lying in wait for bigger prey, and triggering horrific ambushes.

[Mandragola]

I have two issues with the Audax Venator. First, I don't really like volcano cannons. It just doesn't seem better to me than having a reaver firing its melta multiple times. In fact, it seems an awful lot worse. And second it doesn't do anything to benefit the Warhounds in the maniple, whereas if they were part of a Ferrox, Lupercal or Canix (or whatever it's called) they'd get all sorts of cool stuff. Basically, this seems like it gives you the option to make a Venator maniple that's considerably worse than the one anyone else could make. Am I wrong?

 

Firmus is an interesting one, which I hadn't thought of. I think that could end up being more effective in play than it appears on paper. The trick only has to work some of the time to cause the enemy's fire to be dissipated amongst your engines instead of focused on one. Mucking up t he enemy's target selection could be quite effective. I can't say it jumps out as the most effective option possible, but it's a cool idea.

 

I agree it looks like this engine will shake things up. It's a strange one in that for big engines it isn't hugely likely to work, but if it does then it's awful. But for small engines it's seriously frightening. Is it more frightening than just being shot by a VMB/Plasma warhound? Not always, but often, yes.

 

Shutdown offers a lot of flexibility. The obvious thing is to drop the target's shields and then kill it but that may not be the best approach in all cases. Sometimes you might want the dire wolf to just block a reaver or warhound by disabling it, while the rest of your engines engage something else. Then they can attack the dire wolf's target in future turns as, even if it's switched back on, it will be down shields.

 

I do agree that the combos are where this thing starts to look really scary. A Fureans one that might fire three times in a turn would be potentially game-winning, even if it then has to slam on repair orders the turn after.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I really like Volcano Cannons, (especially ones with +1 to hit within a range which will cover most of the board...)

 

The thing with an Audax Venator is that it acts as a great second Maniple, which most Audax players use, after a Canis, there being limits to how many forward deploys you can use. Previously they would have been stuck with a Lupercal, which isn't as good as it used to be without the +2 bonus to coordinated strike, and the flexible squadronning is difficult to use.

For me it's a way of getting more out of the Dire Wolf. There's also probably some Audax cross-maniple squadron shenanigans you can pull as well. Maybe pairing one of the canis hounds with a Venator, and firing the Canis hound first to soften the shields then the Venator second to collapse them? (In my experience it's rare to drop a titans shields with one hound in one go.)

 

Traitors also have some ways of mitigating heat, like the strat 'Gifts of the Dark Mechanicum' giving you three free pushes of the reactor.

 

Audax are so different to the other legios it's hard to really see their advantages without playing them. I may try proxying them a bit, I have enough warhounds.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Brother Adelard

[Mandragola]

It's true that +1 to hit will make a difference, and upgrades to negate heat would certainly be helpful. You've still got the issue of the Venator not buffing the other two hounds in the maniple, but lots of free S10 blasts could certainly make up for that. Honestly I still think it's not quite enough to be really nasty, but it's a cool trick.

 

I definitely agree we need to see these things in games before making any sort of judgement on them. I haven't done that yet, as obviously I don't have one. There's a batrep online by battlebunnies where you can see one of each type running, though as they're learning the rules as they play they don't really take best advantage of it shutting things down. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

That's the issue with the Venator generally to be fair, it's certainly not one of my go to maniples, and it works much better with legios who can sub in a second Reaver to have a better chance that at least one has LOS when the shields pop.
 

[LameBeard]

That's the issue with the Venator generally to be fair, it's certainly not one of my go to maniples, and it works much better with legios who can sub in a second Reaver to have a better chance that at least one has LOS when the shields pop.

 

Is that how Venator works with a second Reaver - I know they tried to explain it in the FAQ but if didn’t stick for me. It’s not that only one Reaver counts as the one that gets the shot? Edited May 16, 2022 by LameBeard

[Sword Brother Adelard]

No, it would apply to both. It depends on the wording for the Maniple. If the Maniple bonus applies to 'titans in this maniple' then you can sub in any class and get the advantage.

If the rule specifies a bonus for a specific class, then subbing in a different class would ruin the bonus.

This was a rule change, because in the first phase, Fortidus could swap in a Warlord for the Reaver and use that to take the opportunistic shots, which was really good.

 

What the FAQ was saying was that if you have two Reavers in the Maniple, only one gets to shoot, not both.

[Brofist]

Sooo, new FAQ, better volkites?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Definitely worth a look now. Where they suffer is the relatively low strength. I don't know what the best pairing is, but oddly, it might be the Ursus claw? A claw which hits a Reaver well can take a healthy Reaver's legs to their first crit, follow up with a beam and you could kill it...

 

It just means there's actually a fourth warhound weapon actually worth taking, which will bring some much needed variety to the mix.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The change to Vortex is also really good, as now I think more people will take them, now they're not the auto-kill negative play experience they were before. There was definitely a stigma to taking Vortex, but I don't like events that just flat out banned them. The new errata strikes a really nice balance in toning them down just a little, so hopefully events won't need to do anything about them at all now.

[Mandragola]

Claw and Volkite is certainly an interesting idea! It could even conceivably work in something like an Audax Ferrox maniple, with stacking bonuses to strength from the maniple, squadrons, flanking and so on.

 

Initially I was against the Warhound volkite because using a draining weapon on a Warhound is always very dangerous. I'm considering that there are some situations where it could be worth having though. The fact is  that warhounds are good at getting themselves into good firing positions, particularly with flanking and so on, which Reavers are much less good at.

 

On the other hand Reavers can manage the heat fine, particularly if they aren't melee reavers that are spending heat on running and shields. On the other hand of course a melee Reaver can use it in melee, hitting automatically and very possibly getting the killing blow on something - which may be worth going orange for.

 

Auto-hitting is a really big deal. You typically need 5s to hit with targeted shots and it can be worse than that, or even impossible, with cover and other modifiers. The ability to hit a compromised location 3 times automatically is really nasty and it does kill titans. Something like a macro gatling or VMB may average 2-3 shots but the fact is sometimes they miss and sometimes they hit loads, whereas beam gives you certainty.

 

In the end I think it looks like the Volkite might edge out the VMB as the best weapon for a Reaver's carapace. On the Warhound I think the VMB is probably a better option. That's partly because a VMB is already extremely accurate at short range (especially in a Ferrox maniple) and the strength bonuses Warhounds get arguably help it even more. And of course the VMB has the considerable advantage that it doesn't kill the Warhound to fire it.

 

The good news is that these guns are now really quite good. I don't know if they're the best choices but they certainly aren't the worst any more.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You can't buff claws with Ferrox or flank bonuses sadly...

 

There are only a few ways to increase the strength of the claw, this is because there is no armour roll, and most bonuses work on that, not on the strength of the weapon itself, and that's what's key to the claw.

 

The first way to buff weapon strength is to be Audax. Your claws are S4. (Which is actually a big deal, as now Reavers are damaged on 4s.

 

Second, is to have multiple claws. (Although, it's not clear how double claw hounds work, some people reckon that you get two shots at base strength, others reckon one shot at base strength +1) but, claws on multiple hounds add 1 to the strength for each claw that hits.

 

The final way is strats, and this is where it gets mental.

 

If you take a hound with claw and plasma, you can play Experimental Weapon and guarantee the claw will gain the Maximal trait.

 

You can then play Overcharged Cannon as well, for Maximal being +4 strength.

 

So, with Audax, that's a S8 claw. Even Warmasters are troubled there, and Warlords are taking damage on 2s.

[LameBeard]

There are now quite a lot of errata. It would be nice if they put out pdfs of the changed weapon cards at least. Or even used the White Dwarf insert. How do you keep track of it all?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

There aren't many weapons that need changing all told. I think some in the errata were to correct mistakes in the printing. I recall when the Psi Titan came out there were errors on the carapace weapons compared to the warhound ones.

Otherwise I think it's just Volkite Eradicators that need changing now?

[Mandragola]

The warlord paired gatlings should have corridor arc too. And of course the warmaster’s PBGs should have -1 to hit at long range, not +1, though GW claims that’s deliberate.

 

The argument they made for not fixing the Acastus was that they’d sold us terminals and couldn’t change them. But now they’ve changed what’s written on weapon cards quite a bit, while entirely changing what’s on the back of the Acastus terminal. What’s the difference?

[LameBeard]

Seems to be Reaver VMB and Warlord Apocalypse too - or maybe if I have a late printing these are already corrected. Can’t check right now.

 

I also thought, since Tempestus had an overhaul, they could (say) do a White Dwarf article on Tempestus, and give us a cut-out-and-keep guide, maybe even cards for the lasers.

 

And to bring this back on topic, it seems those lasers had a slight buff but I’m still not convinced they are worth the points. Maybe if you had a few spare points? But you two don’t tend to run lasers anyway…

[Sword Brother Adelard]

No laser buff I could see? Some of the other changes in the errata were to fix misprints in Loyalist Legios' weapons tables to make them match the cards.

[LameBeard]

I meant the Tempestus-specific lasers on page 3 of FAQ. I guess this is just bringing in line with the Traitor book (which I don’t have). Kudos to GW for doing this.

[Xenith]

=][= Been a while since the last post, but I pinned this topic as it's an excellent resource for an aspiring Princeps. =][=

[Uberlord Gendo]

So with the reboxing of various titan classes, what is the consensus on Warhound load outs?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Short range: Vulcan Plasma is still the loadout to beat.

Long Range: Swarmers and Beamer?

 

 

[Mandragola]

8 hours ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Short range: Vulcan Plasma is still the loadout to beat.

Long Range: Swarmers and Beamer?

 

 

Yeah something like this. Other weapons certainly have play but the plasma/VMB is probably still overall the best option. Those guns are just so crazily efficient.

 

Swarmers are now excellent at range. It isn't totally clear what to pair them with but beamers are probably the stand out option if you want to hurt things. It's a bit like having a bellicosa without blast strapped to your Warhound, including that it also heats up your titan and makes it go mad now and then. 

 

Shudder missiles are interesting. They're kind of bad but slowing stuff can be very useful. I've had some good results with a squadron of two hound on first fire. Now and then I've used shudder missiles to slow an enemy engine before it moves.

 

Hounds are actually pretty efficient on first fire because they only have two guns, so they get to fire at 50% of full effect. The output you get from the ranged ones is more than you'd think. They've got rubbish command values of course so you can't exactly rely on them, but a squadron with your princeps seniores in ought to succeed.

 

The other weapons are worth considering, mostly. Unfortunately it's hard to recommend the melta when the plasma blastgun exists and the lance and claw are kind of just for vibes, with the possible exception of Audax maniples going all in on claws.