Principia Titanicus

[Mandragola]

I’ve been thinking a bit about how I could actually use these Warbringers. A Ruptura maniple seems to be like a good option at 1750. Here’s a list I’ve put together.

 

I’ve got melee weapons on all three reavers, which is possibly a bit much. But if they’re running around quickly it could work. I could always replace them with a laser blaster and gatling blaster somewhere I guess.

 

The Warbringers themselves are set up quite differently. One stands back and throws blasts around and the other goes in a bit closer and throws blasts around, at a much higher strength. In theory they ought to try and get engine kills and maybe they will. I don’t really see a way for any long-ranged warbringer to reliably to finish things off but there’s a chance that two blasts will hit the same location. The bellicosa one might have some success though.

 

Overall I think the bonus movement for Reavers is more of an occasional bonus than something to rely on happening often. When it does work it’ll be lots of fun. There isn’t really a way to build a Warbringer to get frequent kills through powerful targeted shots. Anything in close range of a gatling blaster is too close to target with the bellicosa, which kind of removes the point.

 

I’m not sure which titan should be Seniores. The quake warbringer is an option, perhaps using swift killer to line up shots on stuff while first firing. The closer in warbringer probably doesn’t want orders so much. I could also make a melee reaver Seniores to make charge orders more reliable, but that would tend to increase the chance of losing my Seniores early on. I might be able to squeeze Lucius Praetorian into the list, and that would make a good choice for Seniores.

 

Ruptura Battleline Maniple                          1750

                               

Warbringer Nemesis Titan                            395

                Mori Quake Cannon       

                Volcano Cannon              

                Volcano Cannon              

                               

Warbringer Nemesis Titan                            430

                Bellicosa Volcano Cannon            

                Melta Cannon  

                Gatling Blaster  

                               

Reaver Battle Titan                          305

                Laser Blaster     

                Power Fist          

                Apocalypse Missile Launcher      

                               

Reaver Battle Titan                          305

                Gatling Blaster  

                Chainfist             

                Turbo Laser Destructor 

                               

Reaver Battle Titan                          315

                Melta Cannon  

                Chainfist             

                Vulcan Mega Bolter        

[schoon]

Have you thought about Quake Cannons on both of the Warbringers?

 

The first is an artillery piece and hopefully won't see too much direct combat, but I see the second as more of a combat build, and you may need all the reactor you can get for that one.

[Mandragola]

Yeah that's a consideration. I think if advancing, a quake Warbringer should have a melta to break through armour. However, it's not particularly easy to justify bringing a quake cannon nearer the enemy when it works better from further away. The idea behind the Bellicosa is that, while it doesn't need to be close to the enemy, at least it doesn't get worse as it gets closer.

 

The new linked MIU stratagem could work well with two Warbringers though. Have the close one use the far away one to measure range for its quake cannon, then switch that around so the far away one could fire accurate laser blaster shots.

 

It would be no bad thing to have 35 extra points, of course. It would let me upgrade a Reaver to Lucius Praetorian, which would be great.

[schoon]

Quake Cannons are useful at any range, with their ability to turn folks around...

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I saw we have a write-up on maniples (which I think might need an update after the FAQ), but I can't find one on the various Legio?

[Mandragola]

I saw we have a write-up on maniples (which I think might need an update after the FAQ), but I can't find one on the various Legio?

Yeah I haven't done that yet. Now might be a decent time to start I guess. I'll try and have a go soon.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

The Ferrox Maniple. The Maniple trait, does it key off of the targets' Scale, or the attacker's? It would seem to be the target's, but one could also argue the opposing case. And the FAQ doesn't mention.

[Sherrypie]

The Ferrox Maniple. The Maniple trait, does it key off of the targets' Scale, or the attacker's? It would seem to be the target's, but one could also argue the opposing case. And the FAQ doesn't mention.

Target. This is trivial to infer from the example text mentioning Warlords in a maniple that has none.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

The Ferrox Maniple. The Maniple trait, does it key off of the targets' Scale, or the attacker's? It would seem to be the target's, but one could also argue the opposing case. And the FAQ doesn't mention.

Target. This is trivial to infer from the example text mentioning Warlords in a maniple that has none.

 

In the same book that has a Legio that could trade a Warlord in for any of the other titans in the Maniple... ;)

[Mandragola]

Please don’t use this thread for rules questions. Once that starts it will never stop because far too many rules of AT are unclear.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Please don’t use this thread for rules questions. Once that starts it will never stop because far too many rules of AT are unclear.

Won't happen again.

[Dragonlover]

Rules query thread here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362348-adeptus-titanicus-rules-query-thread/

 

Dragonlover

[Mandragola]

I thought I’d try out an Acastus knight last night, now that they’ve increased its points value. I’d never fielded one at the lower cost. 1250 point game in which I had a warlord, Lucius praetorian (Lucy), a warhound and the Acastus vs a full Solaria venator maniple. The four enemy warhounds were organised as a squadron of 3 and a lone quad laser one. I had retrieval and my opponent had engage and destroy.

 

The Acastus started off without LoS but went on first fire anyway to see if anything would turn up. It shot a few shields off warhounds but they were repaired. There was no other shooting due to dense terrain and range.

 

Turn 2 I failed an order so the acastus waddled out and shot the shields off the enemy reaver. The enemy quad laser hound got a double heat result and took 3 hits to the body and was then gunned down by my Warlord and Lucy. My warhound grabbed the objective and turned around, covered by a blind barrage. I then used my princeps trait to seize priority in the combat phase and full stride it back out of sight/range of most stuff.

 

Turn 3 it still had sight on the reaver. Got first fire off and did two crits on the reaver’s body, plus structurally compromised it. Reaver repaired two shields but then the Acastus missiles knocked them down again and despite only landing one hit from 4 got lucky, hit the body and killed the engine.

 

Lucy and my Warlord combined to kill a flamer/bolter hound in an odd way: Lucy’s melta hit its flamer from inside its shields, kind of annoyingly, and she then punched it a couple of times in the body. The Warlord shot its shields down with gatlings but then another hound merged with it to protect it from the sunfury – losing its own shields in the process. I then fired the macro gatling and randomly hit the flamer again, five times, causing enough detonations to write off the hound’s body and kill the engine. Weird to accidentally hit the same gun twice like that.

 

Turn 4 Lucy charged and killed one of the remaining hounds. The Warlord unloaded its guns into the final one but it was just barely standing, till the Acastus finished it off with targeted ironstorm fire. That was the last enemy model. Victory for Astorum Over the traitorous Legio um... Solaria?

So, the Acastus.

 

I think it’s still too good. The points are closer to correct but it’s just crazily powerful for a model of its size. It was probably worse in a small game like this where there weren’t a lot of big guns firing back at it.

 

It solod a reaver in two turns from a range where the reaver couldn’t really affect it. It didn’t even have to roll well to do this.

 

Even from out of sight it was able to drop shields from stuff, thanks to the rapid trait on the ironstorm. On turn 1 its first fire shot hit 5 times thanks to rolling 2 6s and a 5. But then its normal combat phase shot missed completely.

 

Likewise it landed a few targeted shots on a warhound. Even with 4+ BS needing 6s it’s likely to hit one, rolling 6 dice.

 

It got two engine kills despite only once getting to fire its lasers on first fire. To be fair one of those was an extremely damaged warhound, but the Reaver was all about the Acastus.

 

I really wish they’d decreased its power instead of increasing its cost. It just feels wrong how shooty this little guy is. There’s almost no defence against that rapid/barrage combo. There’s something quite demoralising about taking damage you can’t avoid or prevent.

[Sherrypie]

It's a design problem. They are obviously meant to be the heavy hitters in a knight list where they have to do all the long range exchange of fire by themselves and still pose a threat to the titans, which poses the problem of making that happen while not making them too good when supporting the titans that are already plenty capable in firefights. As they are... eh, didn't happen.

 

One should probably get painting those Households so the Acastii could be fielded where they don't feel so overwhelming, if still immersion breaking :P

[Fajita Fan]

It’s exactly what I thought when I saw the change. If they’d brought them up to about 120-125 points total instead of 100 and toned their guns down to 36” without blast and maybe S8 instead of S9 it would be better than simply doubling their points. You still have a concentrated fire platform that can First Fire at BS3 but now the points and composition restriction make it REALLY hard to fit into lists in a fluffy way.

 

I’ve been struggling with making fluffy knight household lists with a 200 point solo model that has to be taken one per lance when lances cost a minimum of about 450 points. It just manages to cost itself out of the list whereas it would still be an effective shooter at 125 points if you just toned down what is essentially a BS3 48” blast template laser blaster.

[Mandragola]

Well it’s not just two turbo lasers with blast and longer range, it’s also a Vulcan mega bolter with almost double the range that doesn’t need line of sight. So roughly the firepower of two warhounds.

 

I’ve not tried to write knight lists with them in yet. That’ll be interesting. At 1750 I suppose you might manage a questoris banner, a Cerastus banner and a couple of these. You can’t have 3 at <2k.

 

In a knight force they at least do a job that makes sense. They make your opponent make hard choices. In a titan battlegroup they just spit out unfair firepower.

[Fajita Fan]

I’ll post my lists in my thread when I can get on my desktop, you can take two banners of two at 2k but then you’ve only got two other lances and four total activations (yikes). You’re also only getting two Cerastus knights as your command banner aka your opponent’s first target (and I tend to think Cerastus make the best senechals). The change severely limits their use in a household where they were needed the most.

 

Now that the points have changed do you think there’s any reason not to spend 15 more points on the conversion beamers? I still think S9 5” blast is better than the lascannons for just 15 more points.

[Mandragola]

Not sure to be honest. I rate the rapid trait on the missile launcher above the rending trait on the mortar thing.

 

I guess I'd say that the upgrade is less of an autopick now, at 15 points, than it was before at 0 points. There are at least other things you could potentially buy with 15 points that might be worth having.

 

I was also looking at the option of upgrading the autocannons to lascannons. 2 S6 shots is a vaguely interesting option, though the chances of anyone getting that close to an Acastus in a knight army are not high.

 

Edit: Here's a 1750 point list idea. Has rather a lot of Cerastus knights in it. Only two Porphyrions.

 

Lance 1

 

4 Lancers 330

Banner 50

 

3 Lancers 250

 

3 Lancers 250

 

Lance 2

 

2 Castigators 170

 

3 Wardens 150

Missile Pod 15

 

3 Wardens 150

Missile Pod 15

 

Support

 

Porphyrion 185

 

Porphyrion 185

Edited March 6, 2020 by Mandragola

[Poliorketes]

First post, so hello everybody. Great topic, made me join the community. After playing wargames of all kind for 30+ years for various reasons for the last 2 years I only play with 2 friends every other month, but I try to do more and AT is one of the games I intend to play more.

 

On the Warbringer Nemesis: I ain‘t sure if it is a good titan, and personally I dislike the looks. But I think it has its place as an alternative for a Warlord, if you consider the differences, especially weapons loadout and the carapace rule. A Warlord has a choice of carapace weapons, but basically there is the Apocalypse Launcher with its long range and there is everything else - Weapons with a range of up to 24“ that can‘t be used against any target closer than 10“ unless its another warlord. The Nemesis on the other hand can use similar weapons on its arms - without the short range limit. So if you want to build a warlord with Bellicosa or Mori and Carapace Weapons other than the Apocalypse Launcher, the Nemesis might be the better alternative. Only problem being I can‘t really imagine why anyone should choose anything but the Apoc for a Bellicosa/Mori-Warlord

[noigrim]

Gatlings and bolters can strip shields fast then you blow the smaller titan woth plasmas

[Mandragola]

First post, so hello everybody. Great topic, made me join the community. After playing wargames of all kind for 30+ years for various reasons for the last 2 years I only play with 2 friends every other month, but I try to do more and AT is one of the games I intend to play more.

 

On the Warbringer Nemesis: I ain‘t sure if it is a good titan, and personally I dislike the looks. But I think it has its place as an alternative for a Warlord, if you consider the differences, especially weapons loadout and the carapace rule. A Warlord has a choice of carapace weapons, but basically there is the Apocalypse Launcher with its long range and there is everything else - Weapons with a range of up to 24“ that can‘t be used against any target closer than 10“ unless its another warlord. The Nemesis on the other hand can use similar weapons on its arms - without the short range limit. So if you want to build a warlord with Bellicosa or Mori and Carapace Weapons other than the Apocalypse Launcher, the Nemesis might be the better alternative. Only problem being I can‘t really imagine why anyone should choose anything but the Apoc for a Bellicosa/Mori-Warlord

Welcome Frater.

 

So first up, you're kind of right that missiles are a hard-to-beat option for Warlords. They're very cheap and they do their job very well. At long range they're actually very good for finishing off wounded titans, so I've got kills with them as well as taken down a load of shields. Personally I think they're a bit under-costed at 15. I think they're worth at least 20 and the vulcan mega bolters should have got the discount.

 

That said, I do like gatling blasters on a plasma/gatling warlord. That extra point of strength makes a lot of difference, especially against knights, and the extra 2 shots are nice as well. I run a lot of warlords and that generally includes one with missiles and a quake cannon or two. If the points are available I like to upgrade a the missiles on my closer-ranged warlords to gatlings.

 

I've actually never tried laser blasters. I probably should, but they feel badly overpriced. Turbo lasers even more so. Laser blasters have an incredibly small window where they can do accurate targeted shots against anything but a Warlord. And what possible other use are they supposed to have? They're not awful against warhounds because they're strong enough to do major damage without targeting. Against knights they don't really do more than gatlings - the better strength is cancelled by the fewer shots.

[Gryphonicus Walks]

I tend to only field warlords with 2 load outs:

Long range support: apoc launchers, quake and belicosa.

 

Mid range brawler: gatlings on the carapace and any combination of plasma/Gatling.

 

I love the Arouca power claw in looks and the idea of it but rarely, if ever use one.

 

Has anybody used any other combos?

[Sherrypie]

Plasma + claw is also quite fine if you're going in hard, I enjoy fielding them swapped into Ferrox maniples and pretty much instakilling anything it gets its mitts around while not being without a proper gun when still closing the distance. Could use a gatling just as well, if wanted.

 

There aren't that many combos currently, as you're basically limited to sitting at range with long guns, hanging around the middle with plas/gat or eating face with fists. The fancier tricks are more a question of what oddball stuff can you do with legio rules and stratagems to leverage those setups in unorthodox ways during the game, at least until we get wackier weapons like breaching pods full of terminators or air pads. 

[Mandragola]

I agree that plasma or maybe Gatling seems the way to go for a melee Titan. Gatling is awesome for killing blows but not great against undamaged targets, so I think plasma edges it as a choice. In melee fire the plasma first then, if it hits, punch that location.

 

Gatling might actually be better in a Ferrox maniple if you switch the order and punch first, though equally it works well to just blast something with accurate S11 plasma before punching at S13 on a 2+.

 

There’s probably a case for bellicosa, Gatling and missiles. You get a titan with good damage at all ranges, not too much heat, good at breaking shields and killing blows. The bellicosa is way better against knights than a sunfury, if those are common in your area.

[Armiger84]

I tend to only field warlords with 2 load outs:

Long range support: apoc launchers, quake and belicosa.

 

Mid range brawler: gatlings on the carapace and any combination of plasma/Gatling.

 

I love the Arouca power claw in looks and the idea of it but rarely, if ever use one.

 

Has anybody used any other combos?

 

My usual Warlord rotation usually pulls from one of the following:

 

1) Quake - Bellicosa/Quake - Apocalypse Launchers

It's low strength so don't expect it to kill anything outright, but Quake/Quake/Apocalypse on Split Fire in a board corner offers excellent board control.  Knights wind up Shaken, and as shields go down, Reavers get tar-pitted pretty fast too.  Bears repeating, but this *won't* do the heavy lifting on killing anything though, so protect your Melta Reaver.

 

2) Macro Gatling - Plasma - Laser Blasters

I play Tempestus, and honestly I've had a lot of success keeping people in that 17-19" range band where my lasers are better than your lasers, because by the point I'm solidly in range, people start putting Reavers on Emergency Repairs orders. YMMV

 

3) Macro Gatling - Bellicosa - Turbolaser Destructors

The Epic 40K Warlord loadout!  Sounds weird, I know, but try it!  People discount the effectiveness of 4 high accuracy early game Shieldbane shots setting up a target for a Reaver to unload on.  More consistent than Laser Blasters, you can advance for two turns on Split Fire.  At worst, you lock down a corridor your opponent won't go near with the Turbos, at best, you're softening up a Reaver or a Warhound pack for another engine in your battlegroup.  When it's time to tango, free maneuvering without special orders gives you the full weight of fire of all three weapons.  It's a midfield Reaver on steroids with lots of aimed shot potential, basically.

 

4) Macro Gatling - Arioch - Gatling Blasters

Come give daddy a hug.  Uncomplicated strategy; 100% board control & shield stripping.  People find reasons to be anywhere other than where this guy is.

 

Turbolasers on Warlords are underrated, IMO.  If you're Fureans, they're great against foes in partial cover.  If you're anyone else, they're a way to force an opponent to push their reactor for Turn 1/ Turn 2 saves against Shielbane, and your own Titan can tolerate the pushes while still advancing & soaking return fire.

 

I was running the Macro/Plasma/Laser Blasters Warlord for a while, but traded him out for the Macro/Volcano/Turbo Warlord for the past few games, and I haven't had cause to complain.  Volcano Cannons make for good long-range firepower, but are still just as good as midfield assault guns.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Armiger84