Principia Titanicus

[Mandragola]

That’s cool, and very interesting. For a while now I’ve been thinking of the sunfury as the best partner for the macro gatling. I don’t know if the bellicosa is a better option. It might be for some Legios but not necessarily for all.

 

For example with my Astorum I can run quickly to get my guns into range but, if I do, firing draining weapons becomes a very questionable idea. The same of course applies to shieldbane weapons. But my tendency as Astorum is to save my reactor for my shields and play to the strength of my rerolls to repairs. That might be prejudicing me against a more aggressive approach for other legios.

 

Great to hear about a use for turbo lasers too, though I’m not sure I’m persuaded that they’re better than missiles in that long-ranged shield-breaking role. Unlike missiles they can make a dent in knights and stuff though.

 

Another load-out I’ve had some fun with is double quake with apocalypse missiles. I initially took this as a cost-saver but I’ve found it to be surprisingly effective. 440 points is a very small amount for a Warlord and it still does awesome work. There are plenty of times when people don’t want to fire bellicosas but quake cannons don’t have that issue. This titan is in no hurry and doesn’t have any draining weapons, so it’s incredibly tanky. S9 large blasts are still a serious threat to Reavers and Warhounds. It doesn’t kill knights anything like as fast as a bellicosa would, but it still totally negates them as a threat. The rest of my army can gun them down as they stumble forward.

[Gryphonicus Walks]

I use laser blasters in my warlords occasionally but they struggle to earn their points when compared to apoc or Gatling. I want them to be good as they look great on the model.

[blackbabyjesus]

I've been trying laser blasters on top a fair amount recently and honestly I don't think they're anywhere near worth their points, at distance they're not very accurate and up close you often just can't use them. Missiles beat them in almost any scenario vs shields and turbo lasers will generally beat them vs armour due to their doubled accuracy with aimed shots.

 

The only thing I think they have going for them is the extra 6" range you get over gatling basters, but if range is an issue save yourself 40 points and get missiles.

[1ncarnadine]

Has anyone ever had success deliberately comboing the Traitor re-roll abilities with the dicey Traitor Stratagems?

 

Specifically, Fureans's Many Faces of the Omnissiah, Vulcanum's For the Fallen, and Infernus's Dark Blessing all give you access to re-rolls. Among the Traitor-specific stratagems are a few that can flop or backfire, but a single re-roll could dramatically reduce those odds. Among the Shadow & Iron ones, Aetheric Infusion looks like a great candidate, but Living Armour from Doom of Molech might be another that would love to have an insurance re-roll.

 

I guess I'm gonna give it a shot with Vulcanum + Aetheric Infusion and see how that goes. I'm trying to figure out what the heck I want to spend Stratagem Points on with these guys as my new project, so if there any other suggestions I'm all ears.

Edited March 10, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Gryphonicus Walks]

I don’t rate the laser weapons on warlords or reavers. I don’t think they provide enough and are almost always outclassed by other choices. Maybe if they have the shield bane rule with no draining I would consider them. They are ok on Warhounds as they are cheaper than the plasma blastgun, more accurate and I expect the Warhounds to be finishing things off or at least attacking flanks. Edited March 11, 2020 by Gryphonicus Walks

[The boater]

I don’t rate the laser weapons on warlords or reavers. I don’t think they provide enough and are almost always outclassed by other choices. Maybe if they have the shield bane rule with no draining I would consider them. They are ok on Warhounds as they are cheaper than the plasma blastgun, more accurate and I expect the Warhounds to be finishing things off or at least attacking flanks.

I’m not so sure the lasers should be so discounted... the shieldbane isn’t really that cool, but lasers are the highest str weapons on the reaver that aren’t a blast. That can be significant if reavers are the biggest thing you brought, and you have a warlord or two you gotta drop. Are they the best? Probably not, but using them in conjunction with a melta can be quite deadly (provides the shields are already down). On a warlord, i don’t think they are really worth it (beyond how cool they look). Too pricey and there are already much better shield strippers on the table.

[Gryphonicus Walks]

That’s a fair point regarding the reaver and using the laser after a Melta. I find that load out is expensive and prefer the Gatling cannon to go with the Melta. I then have the reaver with about her titan and use the group to destroy the target. Relaying on one reaver to do the job never works for me, unless it’s armed for CC.

[Mandragola]

I find lasers a decent arm weapon for a Ferrox Reaver. The improved accuracy means they're good for finishing off stuff and going from S8 to S9 makes a big difference too. If you haven't charged (and failing orders is always possible) then you can fire the laser first, then use your melee weapon and smash attack wherever it landed - hoping it wasn't the weapon.

 

You can do the same with a melta of course, but it's nice to have the option of targeting - and no risk of melting yourself with a scatter.

 

It's hard not to see the gatling blaster as a simply superior gun though, on any platform. It's so much more accurate and also has more shots and the ordnance rule. It's a great shield breaker and finisher. It fails against knights and undamaged titans, but so long as you pair it with something with a high strength then it can do great work. The two guns should probably both cost roughly the same amount in my opinion.

[The boater]

Yeah I can agree with that. I like gat over them, and if I had to take one or the other, I’d probably take the gat. I really just see the Lasers as something you take with another weapon (like taking it with a gat or melta), and I really don’t know a scenario where I’d take all lasers on a reaver or warhound...

[Sherrypie]

All lasers on a Warhound is actually pretty useful, I've had fun with one double-laser Hound stalking the backfield and sniping targets that are close to death by the actions of the more agressive facepushers at the front. Accurate fire from long distance on a very mobile platform often gets somewhere where it can do things and if it's not under fire, pushing for Shieldbane while taking the heat from your shields is also safe. Works fine in Venator, as an example.

 

Personally I prefer taking two lasers if taking them on a Hound, as they are more suited for the backfield duty while I think there are better options if you're going close anyway.

[Xenith]

Hi, as this is the closest thread to a general tactics/getting started one, I thought I'd seek opinion here:

 

++ Battlegroup (Battlegroup) [1,000 Points] ++

+ Allegiance + Traitor

Titan Legion: Legio Tempestus (Storm Lords)

 

+ Titan +

 

Reaver Titan [320 Points]: =Tempestus= Chasmata Laser Blaster, Reaver Titan Power Fist, Warp Missile Support Rack

 

 

Warhound Titan [240 Points]: Plasma Blast Gun, Plasma Blast Gun

 

 

Warhound Squadron [440 Points]

Warhound Titan: =Tempestus= Chasmata Turbo Laser Destructor [WHD], Vulcan Megabolter [WHD]

Warhound Titan: =Tempestus= Chasmata Turbo Laser Destructor [WHD], Vulcan Megabolter [WHD]

 

My local store is looking at getting into AT and I thought 1000pts is a good place to start. Reavers are my absolute favourite titan and any lists will likely add more before other titans. 

 

Most titans are equipped with lasers to take advantage of Tempestus range bonuses, and something short ranged for wet work - from your thread the vulcans can strip shields and the lasers do targeted shots to critical wounds? Or vice versa with shieldbane?

 

The third warhound just seems really fun, dropping 4x templates per turn. Might be a candidate for the tempestus drop strat?

 

How would you take advantage of tempestus rules, and build a force. For your info I have the titan battlegroup, so a warlord, reaver and 2x hounds. My aim would be to pick up the starter set with rules, 2 more reavers, hounds+cerastus.

 

Could this go into one of the maniples, like the venator? In that case keep the hounds for shield stripping and load up the reaver for free shots?

Edited March 16, 2020 by Xenith

[Marshal Loss]

Give this article a look, it will really help you out. They have other articles on Titan loadouts, maniples,etc, as well.

 

You need a maniple - Venator is great for learning the game but Ferrox really suits Tempestus, who need to be played aggressively to get the most out of their rules. I'd avoid 1) the Warp Missile on the Reaver, and 2) spending points on the Chasmata laser upgrades unless you have a specific plan for them or absolutely no idea where else to put the points.

[Mandragola]

I've neglected this thread for a while now, mainly because I haven't been able to play any games for months. I miss the game!

 

Anyway Goonhammer have an article up about Warbringers today: https://www.goonhammer.com/warlord-wednesdays-warbringer-nemesis-focus-adeptus-titanicus-tactics/?fbclid=IwAR3c0kugrrLCzGqllfpyhkP3apzrhdxFPf5SQYDL54DfKxpoMk4trALepWw

 

They like them more than I do. I still struggle with the seeming contradiction of having a carapace gun that wants to be far away, combined with Reaver arms that want to be close.

 

That said, I haven't yet actually fielded my Warbringer, so I'm not really able to comment in detail. One thing we agree on is the lack of shield-breaking weapons, which means it's going to have to rely on other titans to do that work.

 

From that I think that, when playing against warbringers, they should probably be quite low down your target priority list. Try and keep any titan with weak shields out of its corridor arc and prioritise killing the warhounds or reavers that are set up to strip your shields. I think that makes sense against both kinds of maniple it comes in. The other stuff is going to be coming at you faster, making it more of a threat and easier for you to attack. And the Warbringer will want to move last, which should give you an advantage in activations over the stuff coming forwards.

 

Goonhammer propose two load-outs. The first is the "standard" quake, volcano and laser blaster set up that comes in the box. I agree that this looks decent, but I can't get that excited about it. It's a decent cannon but it's not especially harmful and it's useless against shields. It won't be doing any targeted shots as it'll need 6s to hit. It kind of works but it's dull. And I think it'll be in big trouble if it runs up against a Fortis or Myrmidon maniple. If you can only shoot, but the other team shoots harder, you'll have issues. I'd consider going for dual volcano cannon and quake, though that's very heat-intensive. I think it would be good to have three guns with effectively infinite range, and laser blasters do nothing far away. You'd get hot though.

 

They also propose bellicosa, melta and laser blaster. This is way more to my liking as a load-out. You bring some seriously scary guns and get within range to use them. Personally I'd consider a gatling blaster instead of the laser for this set up. I think you'll want the shield stripping. It's true that the laser blaster has a bit more range, but with 3 shots at -1 to hit it's not actually all that great at that distance. GH complain that the gatling won't get bonuses to hit at ranges that the bellicosa can fire at all - and that's a fair point - but the laser blaster never gets bonuses to hit anyway.

[depthcharge12]

I’m glad they put up an article on the Warbringer, and good analysis Mandragola. I think the hardest part as a user will be managing your activations and losing your frontline shield strippers.

 

My response to this is in the bat reps I’ve watched (and unfortunately not gotten to play quite yet) is that once shields are down they tend to stay down or at a manageable level. In a 1750 pt list I’m running Ruptura/Lupercal to get 2 nemesis, a distraction carnifex melee reaver, and 3 warhounds for shield ripping.

 

Warhounds have laser blaster/Vulcan, with the one two punch of overloading the shields with dice and Shieldbane. I’m also taking two strategems despite being Legio Fureans and having double shooting, and going for cursed earth and strafing run to strip shields F A S T.

 

The warhounds share shields and strip them alike along with the strafing run and then the nemesis go next to hammer the enemy. Get those kills in and advance the Reaver up a free movement as well as a free boost to get into chainfist/melta range.

 

I’m running Quake/volcano/laser as the quake will be handy to pivot units out of firing arc or to open up side shots. Volcano cannons should be nuking the enemy Titan. Volcano/laser/laser isn’t bad either and I do like your idea with volcano/melta/gatling.

 

Moving the Warbringers shouldn’t be terrible to manage if you are screening with lighter/melee elements.

 

Activations become less of a problem when facing enemy warlords, slap them with quake cannons and force them to move out of arc.

 

I fee it needs to be said as it’s easily overlooked - quake cannons cause knight banners to automatically become shaken and largely ignore their ion saves. In a meta dominated by melee knights, a quake cannon cannot be overstated when used as a first fire or split fire role.

[schoon]

They like them more than I do. I still struggle with the seeming contradiction of having a carapace gun that wants to be far away, combined with Reaver arms that want to be close.

 

That said, I haven't yet actually fielded my Warbringer, so I'm not really able to comment in detail. One thing we agree on is the lack of shield-breaking weapons, which means it's going to have to rely on other titans to do that work.

I would think that Gatling Blasters, despite their relatively short range, would be excellent for stripping shields.

 

However, much like most Warlord builds, I think it's a mistake to let things get close. The Warbringer is essentially a support Titan, sticking in the backfield while others do the close in work.

[Mandragola]

My response to this is in the bat reps I’ve watched (and unfortunately not gotten to play quite yet) is that once shields are down they tend to stay down or at a manageable level. In a 1750 pt list I’m running Ruptura/Lupercal to get 2 nemesis, a distraction carnifex melee reaver, and 3 warhounds for shield ripping.

That’s very interesting. It’s a very different take on the Ruptura maniple to my own thoughts. We’re probably looking at it a bit differently.

 

For me, the Ruptura maniple is really about the Reavers. The Warbringers don’t actually gain anything from it at all. But you get to move a Reaver fast for no heat and move the lot of them if a Warbringer kills something. As a result, I think I’d always want to take at least two Reavers, and three if at all possible. In fact I think I’d probably only take the Ruptura maniple if I could take a full one.  That probably goes double for Fureans, since offensive surge for a full Ruptura maniple would be awesome – and quite likely to trigger a sort of exponential benefit as it increases the chances of a Warbringer getting a kill.

 

A concern I’d have with your list is that the Warhounds are a bit soft. I already think the Warbringers can be dealt with after the shield-strippers. If you send forward a Lupercal maniple then I’m definitely going to be gunning for your hounds first. I also think you could have some big problems with activations. You’ve only got four of them if you squadron the hounds (which is kind of the point of Lupercal) but too many of your units want to move after the enemy.

 

What I like about the full Ruptura is that you can move the Reavers first. Your opponent can point stuff at them, sure, but if things go well they’ll move again. After those three have moved your opponent will have had to activate at least two units, so you can point your Warbringers at them.

 

Still, this is just my theory, and could easily be wrong. Ruptura clearly needs to be seen in play before we can really judge it. I've only seen it used in one batrep and the Reavers weren't set up to take advantage of the speed (one had double volcano cannons!). I think that the ability to move three Reavers during the combat phase could be a complete game changer, even if you only get to do it once. I’m very keen to see it in action. So much so that I’m actually quite keen now to build my second Warbringer.

 

One issue is that it does mean you want Warbringers to get engine kills, which they aren’t really set up to do. I love quake cannons but I’m not sure I’ve ever killed a titan with one. So I think I’d like to have a Warbringer with Bellicosa and melta, to get stuck in and murder things.

 

There’s also the issue of my double quake Warlord. I “discovered” this by accident, while attempting to crowbar a full Myrmidon maniple into a 2k list. It turned out to be a very positive surprise. 440 points buys you a very cheap Warlord, for not a lot more than a Warbringer with only one quake cannon. I find the Warlord to be a much better titan. It’s significantly tougher (especially since its weapons require no power) but also a lot more self-reliant, as it has a pair of apocalypse missile launchers on its roof to strip shields with. The 90 degree arcs on the quake cannons mean I can put it on first fire against knights (where the missiles are largely irrelevant) and have a realistic expectation of finding something to shoot at in both phases.

 

So now if I want an engine to stand at the back and provide support, I look at that guy. If points allow, one of the quake cannons can be swapped for a bellicosa, but it’s no big deal if not.

 

So anyway my point (if I’ve really got one) is that I think I’d field my Warbringers in a full Ruptura maniple, but not in any other way. The really interesting maniple makes up for the slightly awkward titan. I’m not a fan of the other maniple, which just feels like a slightly worse version of the Venator. I look forward to seeing whether the Ryza book gives us any other options for these odd things.

[Fajita Fan]

The gunslinger Warlord (what I’m calling a dual Quake build just because it looks like a pair of six shooters with my 3D printed cylindrical magazines) is actually one of things I’m most excited to try out in a Myrmidon when gaming can resume.

[Mandragola]

 

They like them more than I do. I still struggle with the seeming contradiction of having a carapace gun that wants to be far away, combined with Reaver arms that want to be close.

 

That said, I haven't yet actually fielded my Warbringer, so I'm not really able to comment in detail. One thing we agree on is the lack of shield-breaking weapons, which means it's going to have to rely on other titans to do that work.

I would think that Gatling Blasters, despite their relatively short range, would be excellent for stripping shields.

 

However, much like most Warlord builds, I think it's a mistake to let things get close. The Warbringer is essentially a support Titan, sticking in the backfield while others do the close in work.

 

 

This highlights what I think of as the contradiction with Warbringers. All Reaver arm weapons apart from the Volcano cannon work best at short range. But the quake cannon doesn't, especially now the FAQ has confirmed it has the carapace rule. 

 

Gatling blasters are great weapons, but they don't combine well with quake cannons. Unfortunately there's not a huge amount of sense in a shield stripper that only works when you're too close to use your main gun effectively. You strip a target's shields but then can't hit them to do damage.

[depthcharge12]

Snip.

Those are some good points, and while I’d like to think my warhounds could last forever, I don’t think it would take much to nuke the Reaver then mop them up. Hopefully the two strategems would help pull shields off fast for the Warbringers to target as well.

 

Using your method you could get some nasty reaver spam that would synchronize especially with Fureans.

 

3 x Reavers w/apoc launcher/Gatling/chainfist

2x Warbringers w/Bellicosa/volcano/laser blaster

 

Reavers get free boosted movement to get in range with Gatling and chainfist, can double fire with strategem or use all of reactor track for shield saves. With Reavers stripping shields fast, that’s open targets for the Bellicosa/volcanos and bobs your uncle and your Reavers are suddenly in melee with the enemy warhounds.

[Mandragola]

Yeah, something like that. The list I drew up had one bellicosa warbringer with melta and gatling and one with quake and double volcano cannons. I'd be a bit wary about running one with bellicosa and volcano cannon, because it'd get so hot. But reactor management is quite different for my Astorum compared to your Fureans. Using offensive surge to fire a bellicosa twice could result in a very hot titan, I expect.

[Rejects of Anvilus]

What do you think about using a Warbringer in a Legio Tempestus list, where you can increase the range of the Laser Blasters? I know it makes it quite expensive, but do you think this might be worth it?

[Mandragola]

Yes, things like that will be good options, and to be honest that might be the only time the Chasmata lasers are worth their points - though it's still only better between 16-19", which isn't a lot. Ultimately I don't think a laser blaster with 3/6" more range is a 40 point gun.

 

The Presaegius hit location rerolls will be decent for Warbringers. I think the Fureans auspexes are probably the best of the available upgrades for a Warbringer, as it'll affect lots of guns, most of the time. You can even use it to negate the -1 mod on a quake cannon between 12-24", which is pretty great. You go from having a model where at least one of its guns is almost always at -1 to hit, to one where only one gun ever gets the -1, between 9-12". I could see a case for running Bellicosa and double turbo lasers, to punch holes in stuff and then spam targeted shots at the damaged location. Quake, volcano and turbo laser probably makes most sense though for both Presaegius and Fureans, as it's not too expensive or hot.

 

Of course, Presaegius weirdly like weapons like Meltas that are at long range a lot of the time. Bellicosa, Melta and Gatling would work pretty well for them as you could have a good chance of the melta hitting where the Bellicosa landed, and that'll tend to do real harm. Gatling helps to strip shields and as a finisher.

[depthcharge12]

Something I completely skipped and thought over - legions like Fureans and Defensor can fire 1 weapon effectively 3 times in a single phase.

 

First fire DOES NOT prevent the weapon from being fired again later in the combat phase. Therefore, you can first fire, fire again in combat, then trigger a Legio buff to fire a third time.

 

I think that moves Apoc missile launchers way up in my books for effectively 1 heat (Fureans/3 for Defensor) to be able to fire 15/30 missiles in a single phase.

 

It’d be worth it to have a single warlord for either Legio equipped with the carapace apoc launchers and a bellicosa/Sunfury. Granted it’s at a single model, but you have some flexibility. You can FF and combat phase 20 missiles to drop shields, then combat fire and Legio strat a bellicosa twice on top of that plus your other primary weapon.

 

Two things to watch out for would be massive heat and firing lanes/activation. Warlords are at least less susceptible to heat issues but there is still some high risk high reward payoff.

 

Run Regia and use your Senoris to kick off first fire for both warlords and use the warhounds to finish off damaged engines and act as shield batteries. Take a melee reaver/knights to round off a 1750 list and you’re good to go with them funneling engines into your arcs.

[Mandragola]

The defensor thing is great on turn one with first fire on turn one. However, doing that can put you in a bad situation, with a bunch of hot titans still in their deployment zone. It's a high-risk strategy that can be predictable if you go for a total gunline. And of course if your opponent can get out of the corridor arc of your stationary warlord, you can end up looking pretty silly.

 

There are ways around this though. Reaver apocalypse launchers can fire in any direction. Quake cannons on Warlord arms have a big fire arc and range, and don't make you any hotter. They also mess up people's movement, which is good news for a gunline. And actually a warhound will often be in range of other people's stuff as it moves forward - which it's likely to do to try and counter your longer-ranged stuff.

 

So for Defensor I think Myrmidon, Fortis and maybe even Axiom maniples make sense. Apocalypse missiles on the carapace of any titan that can have it, and probably at least one long-ranged arm weapon if possible. A warlord with sirens on will help you pass those orders and Axiom is good if somone fails one.

 

Fureans is actually very different. Firstly, the strat works on a single maniple, meaning that it makes sense to go for a 5-titan maniple of some kind. I think Regia is a good choice, particularly if you run Iben Faruq, as you can keep him safe under a Warlord's shields. But you can choose when to play the strat so it will often make sense to play later on, once you've got really powerful stuff like plasma and melta weapons in range. So you actually want a very different load-out compared to what Defensor would take, mostly going for stuff that kicks in around 24". You might take a support warlord with quake and bellicosa, or just go for two midfield brawlers. If you're out of range on turn 1 you can always use the Legio trait to get a reroll for later, making the best of a bad situation.

[depthcharge12]

What is the community’s take on shieldbane weapons? On paper, Vulcan bolters and missiles should be king at taking out shields but I can’t help but wonder if the -1 to shield saves helps out more especially with power to voids. I mean a tandem usage would likely be best by using shieldbane to get the shields off of a 3+ then inundate with volume of fire weapons.

 

I’m having trouble thinking of good loadouts for warlords. Trying to match raw hitting power with the ability to be flexible but also not cost a million points. It seems like a bellicosa should be at least one minimum on each one.

 

What are people’s opinions on Gatling and Vulcan bolters on warlords too? I feel like I’m always depending on warhounds for shield stripping (or reavers to a smaller degree) but I wonder if they are too fragile. Only issues I have with those two weapons is that they have a relatively short range and shorter window due to being mounted on a warlord.

 

Thoughts?