Non-Destroyer/ Maniple based lists

[Prot]

 

I’m just wondering if anyone has been trying the new Skorpius units.... or any thing really that has been able to replace the Destroyers amd Servitor Maniple in more competitive play.

 

I really like the new vehicles but probably for my 10 or so games I’ve relied heavily on Destroyers and frankly I find it a bit boring and it has issues, including being a bit CP intensive. Plus it really isn’t that fantastic as Mars.

 

The new vehicles make me wonder if we can get a way from Destroyers, and even Knights. What do you think? Is this a pipe dream or have you had some good experiences without the Destroyers?

[synthaside]

I'm taking this list tommorrow  at our GT, not using quite as many transports as i would like * Read didnt finish painting them *

 

+ PLAYER:  Redacted in the name of the Omhnissiah ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ ARMY FACTION: Adeptus Mechanicus
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 12 + 3 CP Battleforged
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts
+ POWER LEVELS: 129 pls
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus Mechanicus
+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

HQ :  Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 92pts]: Phosphor Serpenta [4pts],
Relic: Phosphoenix, Volkite Blaster [8pts], Warlord, Monitor Malevolus

HQ:Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]
HQ: Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

 

TR: Kataphron Breachers [8 PL, 90pts] 3 X Kataphron Breacher [30pts]: Arc Claw [4pts], Heavy Arc Rifle [6pts]
TR: Kataphron Breachers [8 PL, 90pts] 3 X Kataphron Breacher [30pts]: Arc Claw [4pts], Heavy Arc Rifle [6pts]
TR: Kataphron Destroyers [10 PL, 147pts] 3X Kataphron Destroyer [49pts]: Cognis Flamer [7pts], Plasma Culverin      
       [27pts]
TR: Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic Rifle. 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts]
TR: Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic Rifle. 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts]
TR: Skitarii Rangers [7 PL, 42pts]. Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic Rifle. 5x Skitarii Ranger [35pts]

 

E: Fulgurite Electro-Priests [8 PL, 160pts]: 10x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [160pts]
E: Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]. Infiltrator Princeps [18pts] [6pts]: Flechette Blaster [2pts], Taser Goad [4pts].
     4x Sicarian Infiltrator) [72pts]: 5x Flechette Blaster [10pts], 5x Taser Goad [20pts]
E: Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]. Infiltrator Princeps [18pts] [6pts]: Flechette Blaster [2pts], Taser Goad [4pts].
     4x Sicarian Infiltrator) [72pts]: 4x Flechette Blaster [8pts], 4x Taser Goad [16pts]

 

FA: Ironstrider Ballistarii [12 PL, 240pts] 3X Ironstrider Ballistarius [4 PL, 80pts]: Twin Cognis Lascannon [40pts]
FA: Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 204pts] 3 X. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser Lance [9pts]
FA: Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 204pts] 3 X. Sydonian Dragoon [3 PL, 68pts]: Taser Lance [9pts]

 

HS: Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber [2pts]. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber [47pts]: Cognis Heavy Stubber [2pts], Neutron Laser [45pts]
HS: Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber [2pts]. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber [47pts]: Cognis Heavy Stubber [2pts], Neutron Laser [45pts]
Hs: Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: Icarus Array [40pts]
 

DT: Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber [4pts], Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber [4pts]

 

Basic principle is , A hammer smash on turn 2 with my deepstrikers  or lucky turn 1 charges if my opponent hasnt been careful  i will sure up the middle ground objectives with units like breachers with skitarii in the rear , I have the flexilibty to swap this over if im screening against knights or combat units which are coming at me and this army does pretty well in the fight over the middle ground objective games which are common in ETC meta.

[Prot]

I like that list.

 

Right now I see the Onager with Icarus array as the best choice because the Skorpius seems just that good. I could be wrong, haven't quite tested it enough.

 

You have a lot of weight in those 6 Dragoons but it really does look like it should be more than enough. I love the volume you've got. I'm just really thinking the indirect is missing for Tau drone lists. (Incredibly boring to play against but it's an achilles heel of AM in my opinion.)

 

Your Destroyer choices are limited. I'd like to stop using mine altogether. I don't have breachers but I'm still trying to get massed Vanguard working with the new Transports. 

[Gaz1858]

I never run Destroyers as I feel they arent that great and too much of a points sink. My troops are usually bare bones 5 man Ranger units. I use them as a screen and maybe as Engineers in ITC. If they can hold back the Deep Strikers etc and maybe capture a few Obj then theyve done their job.

 

I am unfortunately unable to get any games in soon as off on holiday etc. I do have an ITC Teams event in November that I will be taking my Admech to and hopefully one or two before that once im back. My list at the moment is really gun heavy (2 x 4 Dakka Bots, 2 Skorpius, 2 Neutronagers) and then all my troops and characters. I have preferred the Icarus to the Neutron but want to try this as I feel I have enough firepower to deal with whatever an Icarus woulda shot anyway.

 

Prot - If you play ITC you must be on the rankings somewhere. Which area do you come under? Im South Pac

[Prot]

Gaz, long story short I never, ever have taken my AdMech to a tournament. I actually prefer rulebook/Maelstrom etc to ITC, but we have a large player base here that also participates in ITC tournaments. I'm in Canada and have only played ITC this year with my Chaos. I don't trust my AdMech at that level of play. While I do play them a lot in ITC prep games (others getting ready for tournies, etc), I'm just not confident with them. 

 

Basically what I find is:

- you need to hope the tournament tables are all on planet bowling bowl.

- either massively prepare for, or plan to dodge GSC.

- Not play AdMech as your main force (which I don't want to do)

- try not to get 'bumped' as the army is mostly doomed on contact. 

- hope you don't face Guard. (Guard has a heavy presence here. While it's shine has lost its luster internationally, they still win events here.

 

Most of the 'successful' lists I find manage to weave a path through tournaments narrowly missing some of the really, really bad match ups. The closest I get to what I consider a 'strong' Admech is when I include a trio of knights (one big, two armigers).

 

Almost all of those top performing Admech lists feature a single or double large squad of Destroyers. 

 

I find with Cawl and the ability to use the Kastelan robot strat (to improve B.S.), they are strong. The Vigilus detachment makes them a lot better (survivable). But I do find them too.... cumbersome. They can get bumped in CC pretty easily if you're not careful (usually a huge footprint).

 

Your core list looks competitive. I actually like the Icarus better lately as well but that's largely because Tau is on fire here lately. (I guess everywhere really) and the Deldar Airshow lists are really annoying to play against. (I faced two in my last tournament.) 

 

I'm trying to take 3 Skorpius, and all of my troops are (for now) Rangers/Vanguards with a sprinkling of Arquebus'. I did try 10 Vanguard with 3 Plasma in the new transport but it wasn't as good as the Corpuscarii priests.

[synthaside]

Well , annoyingly I just finished a huge write up  about how i got on my event this weekend ... only for chrome to crash .... So i'm gonna keep it short and sweet as
it seems i've used up all my favour with the one true ... Void Dragon , cough sorry yes Omnissiah i said Omnissiah .


Game  1  GSC   Foot spam with bike bombs  abbies  and acolytes  ..... my board presence won this 6 dragoons as screen 

 

Game   2  Ynnari ,  Harles , Haywire and Edred with all the filthy powers  .....  MVP to my empty transport as a smite shield with 5+ ingore mortal wounds 

Game  3   Chaos knights with an alpha legion forge world dread force  .... outgunning even me  tough game Chaos knights are NO JOKE ... 10 sweep attacks on a Warglave :-S
                 This plays essentially like knights with  tank commander punishers only the knights are way scarier and the double gatling knight ignores -'s to hit.

 

Game 4   Drukkari , Talos spam triple ravager ,  and paper boats .. ...   *God I hate hayire and talos * , This game went poorly but i scraped a high scoring loss.

 

Game 5   Tyranid Shooty horde with 2 blobs of Hive guard , double hive tyrant  and 60+ Spitter gaunts   , Hit his left flank with everything then Deepstruck my
                 Sicarians to  the right as he moved everything over to kill his hive guard 

I wouldn't call it an easy run in at 3 of my opponents are top 10 players in faction and my only loss was to the number 1 ITC Drukkari player in the world right now.

Result   https://photos.app.goo.gl/3c4J5JYpPHnrP2sU7

[Prot]

Way to go Lyle!

 

So I’m assuming no Destroyers?

 

My close win against DE also featured Talos which were my first target but that cost me dearly to ignore most of his heavy shooting to do so.

 

I’m running 3 Dragoons and 3 Fist bots to deter assault. I am not liking the Fist bots but don’t want to buy anymore Dragoons. Lol

 

Nice play with the transport and actually I did the same thing. I blocked haywire mortal wounds with mine. At one point rolling 3 five up invulns to save it from certain death.

[synthaside]

Darn .. I am unmasked ;-)

 

List was posted in 2nd post on the thread .. 1 unit of destroyers for flexibility but thinking back on there performance they did better with the flamers than their plasma guns ..

 

It's all in the dragoons really ... Used my prize money on another hoverboat ... So my next variant may have 2 transports full of hoplites plus the electro priests in my terrax.

[Prot]

Good ol' Dragoons. Another unit I try to do without... almost impossible with those guys though. They really do a lot of what AM needs... move fast, and hit hard. A little soft, but still a much needed unit.

 

I can't really replace those. Grats on the finish though. I only have one Transport but it's getting me new found mileage out of my Priests.

[synthaside]

Dragoons while expensive are really a nessacary evil for us HOWEVER , Have you seen the amazing converted dragoons doing the rounds on reddit ,  perfect for the more heretical minded ;- ) and much much cheaper .

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/cmevi9/why_should_custodes_have_all_the_fun_inspired_by/

 

[Gaz1858]

I have yet to use Dragoons myself but I think I may have to

[synthaside]

The funny thing is , when  i ran one  with a taser goad I was very underwhelmed by it , the ideal number is 3 , two can still do work   bigger unit is great but you are inviting to much concentrated firepower for example smash captains murder entire units of them too easily.

The principle of my army is threat saturation ... I want my opponent to struggle with what they are going to focus on turn 1 , you are invited to shoot at my -2 , or my -1 with invulnerable saves , or my breachers at -1 with 2up saves , the destroyers are usually hidden as best i can  I think this will get even better when its a unit of hoplites in the transports and my electro priests are underground  in the terrax , as the easy target was to kill the electro priest transport but hoplites are not as pricey to be left in the midfield and do half their work in the shooting phase.

 

[MajorNese]

Yeah, threat saturation works well, as our units tend to be on the cheaper side. Once you factor in Armigers too, you can build up quite a bit of pressure - two armigers and a few dragoons mean our onagers won't get shot at for a round or two.

 

I'll expand that MSU vehicle-based approach when the next wave is built and painted - two lightning Moirax as more resilient/flexible dakkabots, a volkite one to add to my two warglaives, then add some transport boats to the mix and fill up with existing onagers/dragoons. The result should be a rather solid wall of vehicles with enough firepower and CC capability to make things interesting.

[synthaside]

Tonights ITC practice for London GT , I Imagine its against either Dark eldar or Ynnarii ( probably more horrilbe talos knowing my luck)
I'm trying out the anti Line of sight blocking plan double Skorp with Belleros load out to see if it has legs ...

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [131 PL, 2,000pts] ++  Forge World Choice  Stygies  VIII

 

+ HQ +

 

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 92pts]: Phosphor Serpenta, Relic: Phosphoenix, Volkite Blaster, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 1): Monitor Malevolus

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Kataphron Breachers [8 PL, 90pts] 3 Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
Kataphron Breachers [8 PL, 90pts] 3 Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 39pts] . Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle . 3x Skitarii Ranger. Skitarii Ranger (Arc Rifle): Arc Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle. 4x Skitarii Ranger
Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle. 4x Skitarii Ranger

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle. 4x Skitarii Ranger

 

+ Elites +

 

Fulgurite Electro-Priests [8 PL, 96pts]: 6x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

Fulgurite Electro-Priests [8 PL, 96pts]: 6x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts] Infiltrator Princeps Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Ironstrider Ballistarii [12 PL, 240pts] 3 Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 204pts] 3 Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance

Sydonian Dragoons [9 PL, 204pts] 3 Sydonian Dragoon: Taser Lance

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]. Storm Bolters: 2x Storm bolter

 

++ Total: [131 PL, 2,000pts] ++

[Prot]

I use one Belleros and it's good... not as good as some people are acting like because of a guy who used 3 in an ITC event... but it's good. 

 

In your list the one thing I don't do anymore is take min-squads of Infiltrators or priests. I've kind of become all or nothing on those units so I'd love to hear how you make out. 

[Gaz1858]

How did you go Synthaside?

[synthaside]

So yeah , good win for me , we called it turn 3 to grab a beer as I had killed his Talos , a hemlock a CH exarch and 1 engineer unit, held more and killed more for two turns. My choices were behind enemy lines , recon and big game hunter .

 

Pregame moving my units of breachers onto a central objective on the right meant I could hold recon there for some time , while my dragoo s pressured the left quarter.

 

I took two units of 6 electro preists as I have failed too many 9 inch charges from the terrax with the 12 blob before and it fits well with the brigade , the infiltratiors are often a 90 point objective grabber unit who will drop out LOS to score linebreaker in non ITC so for recon or behind lines there great.

 

Turn one was a massive wiff for the scorps I rolled low for all the d3 d6 weapons ... Couldn't even kill 1 with the Los gun , I'm thinking next game I take the other guns and move these out for recon etc , god how I wish it could fall back and shoot .

[Gaz1858]

So some nice early points really sealed it for you then. Did you go first?

[synthaside]

No second ,seize is not on the cards either , I think mobility is king here for me .

[Gaz1858]

Yeh you do take different Secondaries to me but that seems to be to do with play style and army composition.

 

Im usually taking Butchers and Engineers then see what they have for the others. I have about 350 points spare in my 2k List that Im just not sure what to do with it lol

[synthaside]

I pick more based on my opponents forces ,  the terrain available  and how i see myself playing  ,  I've got no problem picking engineers if i can think of a unit that's going to be hiding at the back ... out of los and my opponent lacks mortors or , the such ,  but as I don't tend to castle .... (IMO it doesnt work for any game with any maelstrom or progressive scoring system )
and my breachers are a bit to valuable to not spend any time firing in my games.

[Gaz1858]

Oh yeh you deffo dont want to be using Engineers on a unit of Breachers or the like as its a load of wasted points. I use Rangers for this.

 

I have seen a lot of the ETC lists using Breachers but ive never found them to be that good, is there a play style with them or something thats working for you?

[synthaside]

Breachers , point for point are an excellent unit they are 90 points for 3 while their BS is not great its 6 strength 6 -2 d6 against vehicles there's various good ways to buff them to make them better for shooting.  There real value is they are very hard to shift and and an all around " tank " forgive the pun . I can see how they aren't really as much use in ITC games compared to ETC games  or Standard matched tournament play.

The major difference with ITC games is they can encourage casting ..  hold one  " check " , kill one  "check ,  try to hold more " random minor mission element"  meh , Score you secondaries.  Hide your guys in magic boxes and hope your saves save you from motor fire which apparently being inside a bunker doesn't protect against.

With ETC the Game can be won and lost by maelstrom , kill points , moving across the board especially with the pregame move a unit of troops with a nice big footprint can  capture some mid field objectives then sit on them at -1 to hit  with a 2up save ( you are in shroud psalm) Or even better a 1 up save with the stratagem.

[Gaz1858]

I am thinking that its worth a try on the breachers. I have 353 points spare so a Batallion of them is 330 once you add the Engineseers. Could even add some Servitors and make it a servitor Maniple....