what stuff is best for which faction, please?

[Phok Smoulder]

So I'm getting back into 40k again, and actually wanting to play some games. in the past I've mainly just been into painting and converting and things like that. 

I have started a cadian army that is basically long range/gunline type stuff so far. I have a good idea what is best for cadian lists, but I'm not so sure about the other Guard factions. 

I'm mostly interested in Praetorians and Valhallans from a modelling perspective, so was wondering what kinds of weapons these factions prefer, please? (from a lore standpoint, and what works on the battlefield in 8th edition) and TBH, if anyone wants to chime in about the other factions too and what they use, I'm all ears (well eyes I guess, ha ha) 

Alternatively if anyone has any links to info about this subject, that would also be appreciated. 

I got a nice old metal Praetorian commander the other day, and it got me wanting to convert up some praetorian stuff, and I also just really like the old metal Valhallan stuff, so I'm slowly going to build up some stuff for them as well. (I'm also going to convert some troops using anvil indstry bits for both Praetorians and Valhallans as well)

Hope I'm in the right section with my questions anyway. I'm new to the forum and don't really know my way around properly yet. 

For the Emperor

Cadia Lives. 

 

[WarriorFish]

Welcome back to the hobby, you're in the right place for all things Guard There is some old lore about the preferred weaponry of certain regiments, but that has been abandoned for some time and didn't make much sense anyway so you're free to take what you with in this regard

 

As to what is effective, 8th frees things up a bit compared to recent editions which is good but there are still some choices that tend to be better. Plasma is much improved and is solid for heavier duties, but the flamer is ever useful and grenade launcher cheap and versatile Melta is good but with the short range and cost better reserved for more elite troops in most cases.

 

Heavy weapons cover any weaknesses you may have neatly, and there's no really bad pick (though missile launchers tend to lose out to lascannons). If you're after the metals however the models may dictate what you take more, unless you look to third parties.

 

Guard squads themselves are cheap so it's best not to spend too much on them, as they don't last terribly long either. Strength in numbers is the way to go in 8th, which also means lots of way to protect your lovely tanks which are what your opponent is really scared about

 

Are you going to go for the classic regimental schemes, or try some DIY? Any ideas about what sort of armour you may like? Leman Russ tanks are a classic, are good on the table top too ;)

[Phok Smoulder]

Welcome back to the hobby, you're in the right place for all things Guard There is some old lore about the preferred weaponry of certain regiments, but that has been abandoned for some time and didn't make much sense anyway so you're free to take what you with in this regard

 

As to what is effective, 8th frees things up a bit compared to recent editions which is good but there are still some choices that tend to be better. Plasma is much improved and is solid for heavier duties, but the flamer is ever useful and grenade launcher cheap and versatile Melta is good but with the short range and cost better reserved for more elite troops in most cases.

 

Heavy weapons cover any weaknesses you may have neatly, and there's no really bad pick (though missile launchers tend to lose out to lascannons). If you're after the metals however the models may dictate what you take more, unless you look to third parties.

 

Guard squads themselves are cheap so it's best not to spend too much on them, as they don't last terribly long either. Strength in numbers is the way to go in 8th, which also means lots of way to protect your lovely tanks which are what your opponent is really scared about

 

Are you going to go for the classic regimental schemes, or try some DIY? Any ideas about what sort of armour you may like? Leman Russ tanks are a classic, are good on the table top too

I was going to have some leman russ with commanders and battle canons, not sure about the sponsons. I have 1 demolisher at the moment as well, although I wasn't planning on running it, it just came in a bundle. I've not assembled any of it yet though as still working out what magnets to get as might as well magnetise things. I've never done magnets before neither though so not really sure what I'm doing. 

 

If we're talking for my cadians (which is what I was planning on building just as it's easier to get into than the factions you can't get minis for directly any more, but also I've always liked cadians and they seem to support a playstyle I want to try out, that being loads of long range guns blasting stuff) I do also have a couple of priests with evicerators, 2 x astropaths (I plan on getting a 3rd from the officers box) I have a couple of commissars as well (which I was planning on running as LC's, one with fist and one with sword with the relic blade of conquest.

 

I was told by someone that if I run some bullgryns with a priest with evic and an astropath (I think maybe an LC goes with them, too?) they can do a bit of damage and stay alive to help out up front. I think I want to put them in a transport and drive them into something. ha ha.

 

OK I got side tracked talking about my old metals, but I'd like to run as much of my old metal elites and HQ's as I can really for flavour. Also Castelen would be cool. 

 

So for armour, a bunch of leman russ with battle canons and commanders I think, mortar teams and basilisks, bubble wrap them in loads of dude. 

 

I am also getting a vulcan from FW and a couple of vultures maybe or one vulture and the other fighter jet type thing that's meant to be good. I wanted to get a stormhammer, but been talked out of it as could almost get 3 baneblades for the cost. I do definitely want the vulcan though, it looks very good and I hear that it isn't terrible in practice as well, so it's a compromise. 

 

So yeah dude. I will be building essentially two kinds of armies for my cadians. either war of attrition stuff with loads of long range guns, some cheap psykers and my priests and LC's for objective stuff with an bullgryn bomb I reckon. Or super heavy. take a vulcan with a couple of shadowswords or whatever is gonna do the business. probably flyers and then as much gunline and dudes as I can fit. some astropaths as well as psykers are useful.

 

I have also been thinking about getting all the assassins and then making alt versions for each one. as I heard if you take all four you can double up on one. that sounds interesting and fun, and would be a great modelling project as well. 

 

I have loads of ideas really, but I'm still not sure how to properly build my army as this is a playstyle I've never done before. I've always had more expensive, smaller armies in the past. 

 

I mean if I have a large long range firing platform, then with like 100 dudes and then some hard hitting mele stuff to kick butts up front, is that gonna do the trick? ha ha.

 

I apologise if there are loads of typos. I will fix it in edits.

[Phok Smoulder]

in regards to if I was to do praetorian or valhallan detachments, I'm not sure where their specialities lie. I'm sure each faction still has better rules for certain weapons or that their rules benefit some weapons more than others. 

I was thinking about like what might be good in support of my cadian stuff. hopefully these guys have stuff that can work in synergy. 

[WarriorFish]

If it's magnets you want we have a topic full of tutorials on magnetising Guard kits here :tu: It's easier than you might think especially on larger kits :)

 

Sounds like you have a lot planned out, I really wouldn't worry about weapon specialities as the regimental doctrines don't have a particularly large impact on what you may take - upgrades are more dictated by what you may need so the doctrines just help out here and there.

 

Bullgryns are (finally) great, and are a very effective counter assault unit for Guard - especially with a priest. To start with better to get your bread and butter in some Guardsmen as you'll always need them. Thanks to Orders infantry can be quite mobile so transports aren't a requirement, in fact I can barely remember using them in 8th when I used to use Chimeras a lot...

 

Once you've got some troopers sorted you can see what takes your fancy for additions. Don't forget the Fast Attack slot, as it has some nice options for Guard that also offer some mobility! I've always loved my Hellhounds and they're very nice in 8th :D Either way you've got a good plan, keep us updated on your progress with lots of pictures :tu:

[Phok Smoulder]

If it's magnets you want we have a topic full of tutorials on magnetising Guard kits here It's easier than you might think especially on larger kits

 

Sounds like you have a lot planned out, I really wouldn't worry about weapon specialities as the regimental doctrines don't have a particularly large impact on what you may take - upgrades are more dictated by what you may need so the doctrines just help out here and there.

 

Bullgryns are (finally) great, and are a very effective counter assault unit for Guard - especially with a priest. To start with better to get your bread and butter in some Guardsmen as you'll always need them. Thanks to Orders infantry can be quite mobile so transports aren't a requirement, in fact I can barely remember using them in 8th when I used to use Chimeras a lot...

 

Once you've got some troopers sorted you can see what takes your fancy for additions. Don't forget the Fast Attack slot, as it has some nice options for Guard that also offer some mobility! I've always loved my Hellhounds and they're very nice in 8th Either way you've got a good plan, keep us updated on your progress with lots of pictures

thanks. yeah I will share some pics, soon. have just been working on my two priests and their bases while I worked out what scheme I wanted to do and things like that for my armour. think I'm probably going to stick close to the cadian 8th standard colours. I may add a some smaller stripes to the camo though with another green and brown shade, or possibly two brown shades. need to do some testers.

 

I had wanted green on green for the cadians themselves though. so would stick to castellan for the armour, but then instead of khaki fatigues I might do them deathworld forest or something similar. I like that green on green look. 

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

Welcome to the guard! Sounds like you've happened upon quite a bit of old metals. I've always been partial to the older cadians and I really love seeing full armies of them.

 

Praetorians I think usually share the Mordian doctrine if I'm not mistaken. This means that they hit on 5s in overwatch if they are in base to base contact with another model I believe. There are also some nifty stratagems that let tanks hit on 4s in overwatch somehow and there is a regiment specific order that allows your infantry and vet squads to target characters as if they had the sniper rule.

 

I would say that the punisher russ might benefit most from this type of doctrine. More shots means more hits! Also theres another stratagem that allows exploding sixes to hit with rapid fire weapons I believe. Give those infantry squads a plasma gun and send them out.

 

I haven't tried it yet but under the right circumstances a plasma vet squad in a chimera could be a nasty surprise for some unsuspecting characters...

[Phok Smoulder]

Welcome to the guard! Sounds like you've happened upon quite a bit of old metals. I've always been partial to the older cadians and I really love seeing full armies of them.

 

Praetorians I think usually share the Mordian doctrine if I'm not mistaken. This means that they hit on 5s in overwatch if they are in base to base contact with another model I believe. There are also some nifty stratagems that let tanks hit on 4s in overwatch somehow and there is a regiment specific order that allows your infantry and vet squads to target characters as if they had the sniper rule.

 

I would say that the punisher russ might benefit most from this type of doctrine. More shots means more hits! Also theres another stratagem that allows exploding sixes to hit with rapid fire weapons I believe. Give those infantry squads a plasma gun and send them out.

 

I haven't tried it yet but under the right circumstances a plasma vet squad in a chimera could be a nasty surprise for some unsuspecting characters...

thanks. 

 

yeah I have a bunch of older metals there. I have a RT astropath and an RT praetorian commander as well. got the female one with the helmet and the lasgun with the sword on her back from chaffers last stand. a nice older commissar as well with a fist (has his jacket off his a fist arm and resting on the shoulder, it's actually probably my favourite commissar) I got the astro from the old inquisition retinue, then using a redemptionist with the evicerator as one of my priests. my other I'm not sure what he's from, but its the bald guy with the beard and the evicerator as well. he might be from sisters or something. 

 

I don't have any of the older metal cadians at the minute, but I plan on adding some for sure. 

 

The mdorian doctrine sounds pretty decent. Is Valhallan based on flamers then by any chance? they might be good for a hellhound detachment or something if this is the case. maybe get that big flame tank from FW as well (the maceldor inferno or something) 

 

really though I'm just trying to work out what magnets I need for my russes so I can start painting them. I'm actually considering just swerving the magnets for now, as it is causing me a lot of stress and I just wanna build my tanks. been sitting on this apoc box for nearly 2 months now. ha ha.  

 

I have a friend who just started as well and is very eager to have games. so would like to get my stuff at least built and on the way to painted. I don't have time to waste trying to pry info from unwilling heads on this magnetisation thing. 

 

I'm in a predicement where I can't learn from a written guide, I must see it done first. this is great as there are guides on youtube. not found one that actually mentions magnet sizes though, and I doubt the different guides line up as they're all doing it different. 

 

Hopefully one of these youtubers will give me their measurements though and then I can get on with it. 

[sairence]

Praetorians don't have a specific regiment trait this edition.

 

In general you are free to use whatever regiment for your models that you like. So you can run your Praet-models with the Cadian trait if you like, or you can pick up any other from the Codex.

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

Valhallan is more about durability I think. They have a trait that helps their tanks degrade slower. They can also shoot into combat which is pretty cool if situational. Catachans are the ones with the good flamers.

 

I know how you feel about the tanks! I just built my tanks as soon as I could and didn't plan anything out. Honestly, you can never go wrong with the standard battle cannon. That's my suggestion. If you're not Tallarn don't put any sponsons on either. And if you dont glue the turret pieces together they can still be dry fitted and you can change the main cannon whenever you want. That way you can test out a few options before committing.

 

Let us know what you eventually decide!

[Phok Smoulder]

Valhallan is more about durability I think. They have a trait that helps their tanks degrade slower. They can also shoot into combat which is pretty cool if situational. Catachans are the ones with the good flamers.

 

I know how you feel about the tanks! I just built my tanks as soon as I could and didn't plan anything out. Honestly, you can never go wrong with the standard battle cannon. That's my suggestion. If you're not Tallarn don't put any sponsons on either. And if you dont glue the turret pieces together they can still be dry fitted and you can change the main cannon whenever you want. That way you can test out a few options before committing.

 

Let us know what you eventually decide!

I was going to put magnets inside so I can stick the sponsons on if I decide to use then, and then wanting to magnetise the top for a commander. the actual guns I think you can just dry fit really. 

 

do I have to do any work for dry fitting the weapons or will they just naturally click into place and be able to be removed again do you know? 

[Phok Smoulder]

Valhallan is more about durability I think. They have a trait that helps their tanks degrade slower. They can also shoot into combat which is pretty cool if situational. Catachans are the ones with the good flamers.

 

I know how you feel about the tanks! I just built my tanks as soon as I could and didn't plan anything out. Honestly, you can never go wrong with the standard battle cannon. That's my suggestion. If you're not Tallarn don't put any sponsons on either. And if you dont glue the turret pieces together they can still be dry fitted and you can change the main cannon whenever you want. That way you can test out a few options before committing.

 

Let us know what you eventually decide!

 

would you even avoid sponsons with commanders, also what about the weapon on the front? I reckon I'll at least mag the inside where the sponson go, so I have the option to add them and then the bit where the commander goes so I can switch between pask and regular commander as well. 

 

I'm not sure which weapons to take though for the sponsons though if I do. I seen one set up where someone was taking plasma on the side with commanders and one tank had pask, but I think generally people take heavy bolters as it's cheaper. 

[sairence]

Keep in mind, the difference between a set of HBs and a set of Plasma is 4 points at the current cost. So really neglibile. I tend to take them on Commanders sometimes and usually Plasma nowadays.

[HallofStovokor]

Keep in mind, the difference between a set of HBs and a set of Plasma is 4 points at the current cost. So really neglibile. I tend to take them on Commanders sometimes and usually Plasma nowadays.

The price is negligible, but HB sponsons will guarantee you 6 anti-infantry shots. Plasma cannons will be giving you 2-6 shots. Plasma is typically better against high toughness targets, but you can't deny that guaranteed shots is better against troops like eldar, orks and pretty much any non-space marine infantry.

[Kain Mor]

This is very much a fun tactic instead of a competitive one, but with the Valhalllan order to fire into melee with a risk of hitting your own men, you should just use flamers which auto hit. Run a command squad of heavy flamers behind a large squad of conscripts, tar pit enemies with the conscripts and light up your enemy safely with all the heavy flamer firepower you desire.

[Phok Smoulder]

This is very much a fun tactic instead of a competitive one, but with the Valhalllan order to fire into melee with a risk of hitting your own men, you should just use flamers which auto hit. Run a command squad of heavy flamers behind a large squad of conscripts, tar pit enemies with the conscripts and light up your enemy safely with all the heavy flamer firepower you desire.

Now this sounds great. ha ha. 

 

 

 

[Phok Smoulder]

 

Keep in mind, the difference between a set of HBs and a set of Plasma is 4 points at the current cost. So really neglibile. I tend to take them on Commanders sometimes and usually Plasma nowadays.

The price is negligible, but HB sponsons will guarantee you 6 anti-infantry shots. Plasma cannons will be giving you 2-6 shots. Plasma is typically better against high toughness targets, but you can't deny that guaranteed shots is better against troops like eldar, orks and pretty much any non-space marine infantry.

 

I guess if you don't glue the guns in then you can switch out depending what you face. I would like to magnetise the entire sponsons mostly though as I like how they look without them, and want to paint up the side of the tank.

 

Keep in mind, the difference between a set of HBs and a set of Plasma is 4 points at the current cost. So really neglibile. I tend to take them on Commanders sometimes and usually Plasma nowadays.

I was intially planning on taking plasma on commanders, and I most likely will have commanders on my Lemans for 2k point games so most likely will be what I take also. I will get to paint up some plasma effects as well which is nice. I reckon I'm gonna do them green with it going up to fluro green with a white highlight (instead of going to yellow) I love the way plasma looks in that palette.  Also a decent size one to practice on as I have never painted a plasma effect before. 

 

If this doesn't go with the Scheme I use for Cadians I will probs go for a heavy orange, red. but I honestly don't think this will look as good as fluro green to white as that actually looks alive when it's painted right. 

 

then in that case I may end up with some original looking searchlights as well if I match the colours. 

[Mikhail the Valhallan]

Some fun tricks from my time running Valhallan, you can use the fire into melee order to hose down your tanks that got bogged down by enemy infantry. So to make this more on topic, Valhalla's strength lies in the extreme ends of combined arms.

[ranulf the revenant]

 

 

This is very much a fun tactic instead of a competitive one, but with the Valhalllan order to fire into melee with a risk of hitting your own men, you should just use flamers which auto hit. Run a command squad of heavy flamers behind a large squad of conscripts, tar pit enemies with the conscripts and light up your enemy safely with all the heavy flamer firepower you desire.

Now this sounds great. ha ha.

 

 

Not hitting your own men when firing Flamers into them makes so little sense that my brain hurts though

[Shamansky]

 

Not hitting your own men when firing Flamers into them makes so little sense that my brain hurts though ...

 

The Emperor protects!

[WarriorFish]

Nobody mention how flamers are really good at shooting flyers too... :lol: Flamers have long been a friend of Guard, 8th just carries the tradition on :P

[Shamansky]

Nobody mention how flamers are really good at shooting flyers too... Flamers have long been a friend of Guard, 8th just carries the tradition on

In one game my troops shot down a Dark Angels flyer with Inferno cannon, Heavy flamer, 10 frag grenades and a shotgun.

[major higgins]

Not sure for mordian/pretorian, but for Valhalla mortars and HB in the squads ( try to imitate large use of Maxim HMG and light mortar dictrine in WWII soviet). Flamers on infantry squads. Large use of tanks in support of infantry... Conscrpt an commisar