Marshal Loss Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Is it possible there is a ‘marine’ replacement for chaos as well? A change towards a chaos form of Primaris? Wouldn't rule out some Fabius Bile Primaris abominations at some point but there is a 0% chance our normal marines are getting Primarisised or replaced. I agree though, we're probably not getting anything at all here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Is it possible there is a ‘marine’ replacement for chaos as well? A change towards a chaos form of Primaris? Wouldn't rule out some Fabius Bile Primaris abominations at some point but there is a 0% chance our normal marines are getting Primarisised or replaced. I agree though, we're probably not getting anything at all here. I've thought more about my original post, and the feeling the thread has towards getting a little ripped off with a 'version II' codex instead of a wholesale change like loyalists. Shock Assault is going to be all we see for Chaos (I think), but it is definitely a very good thing. But I think when we see the length GW have gone into to rewrite Codex Astartes as a fully functional faction, that's where Chaos feels glossed over. (Am I safe in assuming that's how the majority feel?) This lead me to wonder what would have made everyone happy? What would have made my satisfied? I think it's partially about feeling as much effort was put into Chaos which might be unreasonable of me. That would result in new/tweaked Legion traits, instead of just shiny Renegade changes. And probably an 'evil' Combat Doctrines system. Something that takes the rarely played "Chaos Space Marine" troop type and make it just as potent as their counterparts. So many beautiful new sculpts for Chaos... even marines... termies, but extremely little changed for their baseline rules and here we all see loyalists getting an ovrehaul to a degree and it's hard not to think negatively about the effort put into Chaos. The only other thing I can see having a ripple effect (aside from Shock Assault) is the talk of a Psychic event resulting in something positive for Chaos players. (fingers crossed). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Knight Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I have a feeling that Chaos's big buff is going to be 5+ Invul for most units. Both the Noctilith Crown and the Dark Apostle have abilities that give CSM units a 5+ invul. This would negate any weapons with an AP value greater than -2. Add Tzeentch psychic power or Master of Possession's Cursed Earth and we could see marines with 4+ invul or daemon engines with 3+ invul. That helps a little but Chaos needs something to help make it into the fight phase. Perhaps some more negating overwatch abilities? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I don't think it is going to matter to much really. It seems people are making a mountain out of a ant hill. The top lists are still going to be Eldar and other soup lists. BUT! I want to make it clear that I play for fun and not competitively. So my lists are usually fluffy and way under powered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Well, it wss stated by various people with insider insight that CSM codex was 1.5 not 2.0. And given how some mechanics (prayers) were implemented while others were not, I don't see why we shouldn't believe them. I mean, we know that 1. Shadowspear kits will be released separately at some point (and given that the English version is sold out online it can't be very long). 2. World Eaters and Emperors Children will be taken out of the book. 3. There is about third of CSM model range that needs updated models. (Not to mention new cultist models that were teased for BSF). So it is sensible that CSM will get a new book alongside some of those points. I mean think about it this way - would you rather wait for the 2.0 with 1.5 in your pocket or with 1.0? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Well, it wss stated by various people with insider insight that CSM codex was 1.5 not 2.0. And given how some mechanics (prayers) were implemented while others were not, I don't see why we shouldn't believe them. I mean, we know that 1. Shadowspear kits will be released separately at some point (and given that the English version is sold out online it can't be very long). 2. World Eaters and Emperors Children will be taken out of the book. 3. There is about third of CSM model range that needs updated models. (Not to mention new cultist models that were teased for BSF). So it is sensible that CSM will get a new book alongside some of those points. I mean think about it this way - would you rather wait for the 2.0 with 1.5 in your pocket or with 1.0? That depends. Is there going to be a 2.0? If so, how many years? I have a feeling a lot of codexes are waiting. I agree it's going to take some time for the dust to settle but we'll still be looking at Eldar, DE, Astra, and Orks at the top of the hill. I just don't think Chaos is getting a rewrite, and that's why the rules for Shock Assault are trickling in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5362997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Anyone know if Shock Assault is going to affect Chaos Bikers? Really hope it does! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourged Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 No reason it shouldn't. The implication, at least as I interpret it, is that anything that has DttFE will also get shock assault. So basically just the Astartes in any form in our book, but not cultists or vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 No reason it shouldn't. The implication, at least as I interpret it, is that anything that has DttFE will also get shock assault. So basically just the Astartes in any form in our book, but not cultists or vehicles. I never really liked cultists counting as space marines anyway. Kind of happy they are getting the treatment they needed to have from the start. They are trash fodder in my mind. Not bad units. But expendable ones that should not be able to use the tactics that space marines have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 That depends. Is there going to be a 2.0? If so, how many years? I have a feeling a lot of codexes are waiting. I agree it's going to take some time for the dust to settle but we'll still be looking at Eldar, DE, Astra, and Orks at the top of the hill. I just don't think Chaos is getting a rewrite, and that's why the rules for Shock Assault are trickling in. Well then it would mean other Space marine armies (DA, SW, BA) would have to wait similar amount of time too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Brotherhood Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 My Night Lords Raptors are looking forward to blasting the big wave of Primaris infantry hotness that were going to see off the board. 2 squads with a Lord dropping in with dual plasma guns and combi plasma. With endless cacophony that's 18 supercharged shots rerolling 1s, cya Primaris! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I’m honestly not going to play once this drops until the rules get looked at again come chapter approved or 9th. I have a hard enough time staying relevant with night lords while adhering to fluff as much as possible already, and I don’t see it getting better at this point. The level of damage loyalists can pump out now is insane. Sure, they didn’t get a durability boost but they don’t need one. Spend a round on the receiving end of ultramarine agressors jumping out of the new hot transport and see how much firepower you have left. And before you all say it, I know chaos knights are also the new hotness but that shouldn’t be the solution. Been playing since 2nd ed. I've just hit this too. Just saw all the new Space Marine stuff, and I'm truly truly . No, I am not playing this with Chaos, I am not playing Chaos when you've just released a joke of a CSM codex. right off that you've give the Dark Apostle abilities to Chaplains, again stealing uniqueness from Chaos giving it to Space Marines. Tactical Marines are are now 1 point cheaper than Chaos Space Marines?! No No NO NO (┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I’m honestly not going to play once this drops until the rules get looked at again come chapter approved or 9th. I have a hard enough time staying relevant with night lords while adhering to fluff as much as possible already, and I don’t see it getting better at this point. The level of damage loyalists can pump out now is insane. Sure, they didn’t get a durability boost but they don’t need one. Spend a round on the receiving end of ultramarine agressors jumping out of the new hot transport and see how much firepower you have left. And before you all say it, I know chaos knights are also the new hotness but that shouldn’t be the solution. Been playing since 2nd ed. I've just hit this too. Just saw all the new Space Marine stuff, and I'm truly truly . No, I am not playing this with Chaos, I am not playing Chaos when you've just released a joke of a CSM codex. right off that you've give the Dark Apostle abilities to Chaplains, again stealing uniqueness from Chaos giving it to Space Marines. Tactical Marines are are now 1 point cheaper than Chaos Space Marines?! No No NO NO (┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ I understand. Everything got subtly, or significantly better. Either through specific rules (IE: Gravis armour, Autobolt rifles) or subtle rule changes (IE: Scions of Guilliman, Doctrines, Drop Pods). This book is very complete, and army wide changing. I had my first game with my Ultramarines last night with the new rules. It was game changing, even though I was using a lot of 'common' units. I did not have anything remotely like this feeling with Black Legion. I'm honestly very disappointed. That's just me, and I'm sure I'll be much less disappointed once some time passes. I'm happy for loyalist marine players. We're all in the same boat. But there's a massive, massive class divide here now. I don't think anything will happen for Chaos for several months at least... but I really want to be wrong about that feeling. The loyalist FEEL of line troops being 'good' and solid was definitely there. Bring this to Chaos.... please. :) I know no one wants to hear this... but a silver lining in my games has been Shock Assault. (I had veteran intercessors charging ork mobs for 36 attacks, and 5 fist attacks! I kept thinking about Possessed and/or World Eaters. (The difference being I also had 40 AP-2 Bolt rifle shots in that same turn.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I'm happy for Loyalist Space Marine players, I'm going to be trailing my custom Chapter which I was just painting and had little intention of playing. This new codex, from what I've seen is a gold standard for how Astartes should be represented on the table top. But it comes within a couple of months of a new Chaos Codex release... Considering the development times of codexes etc. They knew this was the plan. That deeply aggravates me as it hurts the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5363938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I’ve only recently come back after a long break off the hobby and the new Marine codex is the first thing I see which is rather disappointing, I will however take any crumbs GW Is generous enough to give us however with the shock assault rule being quite nice should help my Death Guard a little. Seeing how now Marine traits affect everything in the army makes me wish they would also do the same to Chaos in a errata or faq when they officially give us shock Assault, id love for all my models in my Death Guard force to have no penalty to moving and shooting would mean I start fielding my defilers or other daemon engines again in large numbers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painjunky Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Hey Guys. After seeing few battles in RL and online my first impressions are confirmed... SM's firepower has been buffed tremendously and there are pts drops too. After the alpha strike whats left of your CSM army will be reeling. After a second shooting phase it is quite likely you will be packing up and looking for a non power armored opponent to play. Your average tactical muhreen is superior AND cheaper than a CSM. I might be bringing back cultists to fill out troops slots. This is very sad. Drop pods are insanely good now. Expect them. Only solutions i can think of are... Get 1st turn. 3 maulers and a Knight to (hopefully) soak some of the truly insane amount of fire coming your way. Lots off deep striking units may help as you will at least get some shots in before dying. You need lots of LOS blocking terrain. SM are just better than a CSM heavy army at the moment. I am skeptical that GW will address this anytime soon as the sups are not even out yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 The lamenting and gnashing of teeth is at an all time high I see. Jeez guys the book isn't even formally released yet, please just give GW a little time to respond for chaos lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I'm still pretty bitter about how Chaos got treated, again. Honestly, how much effort would it have taken to fix a single page of Legion Traits? Then give us maybe two more pages of useful stratagems. I don't even want Doctrines. I'd take icons that were all useful, and maybe some god specific keyword abilities. Easy. It wouldn't have even taken an entire work day to do. That's the level of care that was invested in our "new" codex. It's just like when we got our scaled back 4th edition codex only for new space marine codex to come out with a "change" in direction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I'm still pretty bitter about how Chaos got treated, again. Honestly, how much effort would it have taken to fix a single page of Legion Traits? Then give us maybe two more pages of useful stratagems. I don't even want Doctrines. I'd take icons that were all useful, and maybe some god specific keyword abilities. Easy. It wouldn't have even taken an entire work day to do. That's the level of care that was invested in our "new" codex. It's just like when we got our scaled back 4th edition codex only for new space marine codex to come out with a "change" in direction. Except this time you won't be waiting years for a new codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 The lamenting and gnashing of teeth is at an all time high I see. Jeez guys the book isn't even formally released yet, please just give GW a little time to respond for chaos lol. I applaud your optimism, but hey that's an aspect of Tzeentch so I expect nothing less. :) ...though the only thing GW has said will be coming our way is the Shock Assault rule. For anything else I wouldn't get my hopes up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Antargo Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 This rule will do perfectly for Raptors with the +1 attack, you'd be getting them their fast anyway before you charge with deep strike and 12" movement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 This rule will do perfectly for Raptors with the +1 attack, you'd be getting them their fast anyway before you charge with deep strike and 12" movement. I'm more curious about possessed though. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Could this also work for Warp Talons? They got Vigilus formations and Shock assault. Along with boosts from MoP and Greater Possesed, could they be workable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Oh no, Loyalists get extra points of AP on everything! If only we had some way of handing out a 5++ to our entire army that's improvable to a 4++. /doomandgloom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 The lamenting and gnashing of teeth is at an all time high I see. Jeez guys the book isn't even formally released yet, please just give GW a little time to respond for chaos lol. I applaud your optimism, but hey that's an aspect of Tzeentch so I expect nothing less. ...though the only thing GW has said will be coming our way is the Shock Assault rule. For anything else I wouldn't get my hopes up. I would imagine Chapter Approved will be a big deal for chaos this year given many of the point reductions. CSM will probably be 12, and rhinos will drop to 65. Obvious conjecture on my part but Its an easy foreseeable eventuality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357501-gw-reveals-shock-assault/page/5/#findComment-5364528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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