GW reveals Shock Assault!

[nanosquid]

Nice little buff, especially since it also affects vehicles. Daemon engines got a little bit better now, though I still wish I had a reason to do ranged DEs. I'm disappointed there still isn't legion traits on vehicles, and especially as an Iron Warriors player I'm miffed that we have no shooty bonuses compared to all the gravy loyalists just got. Then again, Reaper Chaincannons hardly need any more power. Demolisher going to flat d6 is big for my siege boys, though.

 

With my first army being Bad Moons, I think I'm realizing that I tend to pick gunline builds in factions tilted towards melee. I'm not sure what that says about me. Iron Warriors definitely fit me since I seem dead set on doing things the hardest way possible, lol.

[Aothaine]

With my first army being Bad Moons, I think I'm realizing that I tend to pick gunline builds in factions tilted towards melee. I'm not sure what that says about me. Iron Warriors definitely fit me since I seem dead set on doing things the hardest way possible, lol.

 

I think it just means you like balanced armies. Not thing wrong with that.

 

My favorite armies are shooting armies that can hold up in melee which sounds pretty much what you enjoy. But I'm looking more into things like CSM bikers or Noise Marines backed up by Daemon Princes/Chaos Knights.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

So, no points adjustments? Are base CSM really going to stay a point more expensive?

 

There may or may not be - but an Errata stemming from the release of a different codex really isn't where GW does that kind of fine balancing.  If we are to get a point change, it will be in the next Chapter Approved.

[Iron_Within]

TBH I think we have to accept that CSM are getting no points adjustments or anything till the big FAQ or even not until Chapter Approved.

 

At the moment, my Chaos Space Marine Army is now on the shelf, for the first time since 1999, 2nd edition, that's how much a slap in the face Chaos Space Marines 2.0 was for me, just insulting and just made me go "nope, I'm taking my ball and going home".

[Painjunky]

Your still good if you can find a non power armored opponent.

 

Vs SMs we are so screwed that i will take any battle im not tabled by turn 3 as a victory.

[Sersi]

Really hoping we get something cool for non-legion CSM. My army is Renegade White Scars. Right now I'm just lumping them into the Red Corsairs because the advance and charge plus extra cp is perfect for them. But it would be cool to be able to build my own rules around my psychopathic hunters. 

 

Edit: 

 

Anyone else seeing the synergy and amazing application of Noise Marines and Shock Assault? Holy cow these guys are going to be amazing after we get this rule. I know people are super excited about Khorne getting them but think about it. Berserkers already clear anything they come in contact with. This rule is going to help the units that were struggling in close combat.

 

So check this out!

 

A Noise Marine with Noise Blaster is Assault 3 with the bolter profile. Let's say you have a squad of 10 that gets knocked down to 5 left before the assault phase. You're assaulted. Now you get the following: 15 bolter shots followed by 16 close combat attacks before your opponent even gets to swing at you. This is going to seriously put the pain on any enemy that wants to assault you. All that from a 5-man squad. Sure it is all ap -0 and str 4. But bolter fire is no joke and when you put the numbers into it you'll see.

 

I was hopeful for Noise Marines until I remembered that Intercessor now have 1 pt Assault 3 auto bolt rifles, +1 wound, and the same number of attacks and cost 1 pt less than a Noise Marine with Sonic Blaster. Oh, and a tactical doctrine for AP-1, and their a troop choice! Well at least we still have Music of the Apocalypse.

[WarriorFish]

The Guard haven't got the Demolisher tweak yet; all things come in time. GW is sorting the Marine rule bits now it seems, a little bit of patience goes a long way. I expect that GW will want to wait for first adjustments to C:SM before they roll out any point updates to streamline things but we'll see, as always.

[Slave to Darkness]

Seriously pissed at the disparity in treatment between our two codex releases here.

Its NuGW...What else did you expect?

 

Exactly the same behaviour as old GW but with less talent in HQ. 

[Guzzlrr]

 

 

Is it possible there is a ‘marine’ replacement for chaos as well? A change towards a chaos form of Primaris?

 

Wouldn't rule out some Fabius Bile Primaris abominations at some point but there is a 0% chance our normal marines are getting Primarisised or replaced. I agree though, we're probably not getting anything at all here.

 

 

 

I've thought more about my original post, and the feeling the thread has towards getting a little ripped off with a 'version II' codex instead of a wholesale change like loyalists.  

 

Shock Assault is going to be all we see for Chaos (I think), but it is definitely a very good thing. But I think when we see the length GW have gone into to rewrite Codex Astartes as a fully functional faction, that's where Chaos feels glossed over. (Am I safe in assuming that's how the majority feel?)

 

This lead me to wonder what would have made everyone happy? What would have made my satisfied? I think it's partially about feeling as much effort was put into Chaos which might be unreasonable of me. That would result in new/tweaked Legion traits, instead of just shiny Renegade changes. And probably an 'evil' Combat Doctrines system. Something that takes the rarely played "Chaos Space Marine" troop type and make it just as potent as their counterparts.

 

So many beautiful new sculpts for Chaos... even marines... termies, but extremely little changed for their baseline rules and here we all see loyalists getting an ovrehaul to a degree and it's hard not to think negatively about the effort put into Chaos. 

 

The only other thing I can see having a ripple effect (aside from Shock Assault) is the talk of a Psychic event resulting in something positive for Chaos players. (fingers crossed).

 

bring back marks of chaos as an actual ability and not a keyword

[Guzzlrr]

Well, it wss stated by various people with insider insight that CSM codex was 1.5 not 2.0. And given how some mechanics (prayers) were implemented while others were not, I don't see why we shouldn't believe them.

 

I mean, we know that 1. Shadowspear kits will be released separately at some point (and given that the English version is sold out online it can't be very long). 2. World Eaters and Emperors Children will be taken out of the book. 3. There is about third of CSM model range that needs updated models. (Not to mention new cultist models that were teased for BSF). So it is sensible that CSM will get a new book alongside some of those points.

 

I mean think about it this way - would you rather wait for the 2.0 with 1.5 in your pocket or with 1.0?

yeah i agree with this, marines got quite a few updates in various forms before they got that new codex and the marketing of the new chaos codex was clear you didnt need it if you had Vigilus and shadowspear so there may be alot of truth to that

 

and there is the point that there is a number of the shadow spear models that are still unreleased, and look where the SM shadowspear where released. the 2.0 codex was a marketing gaff i think.

[Iron_Within]

The PDF update was only to give us shock assault and the demolisher tweak.

 

Wait for the codex or chapter Approved for points corrections.

 

@iron within stop putting so much energy into hating “codex 2.0”. It wasn’t meant to be a codex update like the marine one just was. Enough already. Chaos are in a good place and will be getting a new codex eventually.

 

I think you are not understanding me, I'm not putting energy in hating CSM 2.0 (1.1 really), I'm resigning myself not to. My CSM will come off the shelf once things are adjusted appropriately. I will happily, joyfully climb down from my high horse if Chaos Space Marines get the same treatment (other than the thought that people who bought CSM Codex "1.1" were ripped off). 

But realising, I've been annoyed with CSM treatment for nearly half my life is shocking, and for my part it is resignation that I shouldn't be getting wound up about these things, they're my toys, my hobby and I can play with them if I want to (or not in this case). This is because playing my favourite game (Iron Warriors vs Imperial Fists) will be a game of misery now. 

 

Against other factions, I already get frustrated by Tau with their Drone shenanigans and mono CSMs difficulty in dealing with it. Eldar are just... urgh, and Imperial Guard are now boring to play against.

Then again, Shock/Hateful Assault will be a straight buff against these units. The primary risk of many of these armies is their overwatch potential once you finally get into assault range. That's why, I would consider Warp Talons as an option again. With 18 Lightning Claw attacks per unit of 5 that deny overwatch, that isn't bad for 125 points.

 

Against Space Marines, don't bother unless you're playing a distinctly non-CSM CSM army....

[Khornate individual]

So, I just saw "hateful assault" mentioned and went to GW's website.  But now I'm a little confused.  Does chaos get shock assault +1 attack AND hateful assault for another +1 attack or is hateful just replacing the word shock for heretics?

[Khornestar]

So, I just saw "hateful assault" mentioned and went to GW's website.  But now I'm a little confused.  Does chaos get shock assault +1 attack AND hateful assault for another +1 attack or is hateful just replacing the word shock for heretics?

 

Our version of the rule is called Hateful Assault, so only one instance of a +1 attack rule. Though World Eaters still get their legion trait. 

[Aothaine]

Something Tabletop Tactics stated in their recent Vox Cast is that it looks like this is the beginning of a new design for all armies and that the Chaos release was the end of the old style of releases. Give it time. If you've been playing this game for years you know that GW releases rules in waves. Chaos Space Marines will have their day. 

[techsoldaten]

Something Tabletop Tactics stated in their recent Vox Cast is that it looks like this is the beginning of a new design for all armies and that the Chaos release was the end of the old style of releases. Give it time. If you've been playing this game for years you know that GW releases rules in waves. Chaos Space Marines will have their day. 

 

When I first saw Vigilus Ablaze and C:CSM v 2, I thought to myself: remember Traitor Legions and Traitor's Hate? How long were they good for, 7 months?

 

While there may be more Chaos stuff coming, there's a downside to intermediate releases. By the time you optimize your army, everything's different.

[Khornate individual]

 

Something Tabletop Tactics stated in their recent Vox Cast is that it looks like this is the beginning of a new design for all armies and that the Chaos release was the end of the old style of releases. Give it time. If you've been playing this game for years you know that GW releases rules in waves. Chaos Space Marines will have their day. 

 

When I first saw Vigilus Ablaze and C:CSM v 2, I thought to myself: remember Traitor Legions and Traitor's Hate? How long were they good for, 7 months?

 

While there may be more Chaos stuff coming, there's a downside to intermediate releases. By the time you optimize your army, everything's different.

 

......And how!  I felt like a fool buying the traitors hate book, got to play 1 game using formations from that book and then nope, no good 8th edition is here.

[techsoldaten]

 

 

Something Tabletop Tactics stated in their recent Vox Cast is that it looks like this is the beginning of a new design for all armies and that the Chaos release was the end of the old style of releases. Give it time. If you've been playing this game for years you know that GW releases rules in waves. Chaos Space Marines will have their day. 

 

When I first saw Vigilus Ablaze and C:CSM v 2, I thought to myself: remember Traitor Legions and Traitor's Hate? How long were they good for, 7 months?

 

While there may be more Chaos stuff coming, there's a downside to intermediate releases. By the time you optimize your army, everything's different.

 

......And how!  I felt like a fool buying the traitors hate book, got to play 1 game using formations from that book and then nope, no good 8th edition is here.

 

 

All I can say is 6th edition turned a lot of people off, 7th edition coming 2 years afterwards made a lot of people leave the game.

 

The only reason people overlooked the Traitor book scam was because 8th edition was less insufferable. Had the screwed up the rules again, we would all be playing Bolt Action by now.

[Excessus]

I still remember when they replaced the 3.5 codex with the 4th ed codex at the start of their new scaled back design filosophy that lasted for all of two codexes (poor DA had to share our fate) ...and then we had that codex for two whole editions...

 

...or the 6th ed codex with insane internal balance that we also had for two editions while the loyalists got a crapton of new formations and updates. The Legion book was a band-aid because of all the whining...

 

So excuse me for not being convinced of GWs track record for chaos...

[techsoldaten]

I still remember when they replaced the 3.5 codex with the 4th ed codex at the start of their new scaled back design filosophy that lasted for all of two codexes (poor DA had to share our fate) ...and then we had that codex for two whole editions...

 

...or the 6th ed codex with insane internal balance that we also had for two editions while the loyalists got a crapton of new formations and updates. The Legion book was a band-aid because of all the whining...

 

So excuse me for not being convinced of GWs track record for chaos...

 

HEY! THE EYE OF THE GODS TABLE WAS AMAZING! IT MADE THE GAME RANDOM - NOTHING MORE CHAOS!!!!

 

No, seriously, who ever thought waiting to get to the table to find out how strong your army was is a good idea?

[Aothaine]

I hear you. I know what your talking about and I feel for your anguish. But this GW is a lot different than the old GW. I still have faith in them. They have done a LOT for the game. 

 

Something else I want to point out is that their rules might have been for fun and not designed for competitive play in the past. It seems they are most focused on balancing armies for competitive play these days. 

[MegaVolt87]

I hear you. I know what your talking about and I feel for your anguish. But this GW is a lot different than the old GW. I still have faith in them. They have done a LOT for the game. 

 

Something else I want to point out is that their rules might have been for fun and not designed for competitive play in the past. It seems they are most focused on balancing armies for competitive play these days. 

 

Not competitive? The 3.0-3.5 CSM codex was one of the strongest ever written codexes in 40k history. 

[Sersi]

I still remember when they replaced the 3.5 codex with the 4th ed codex at the start of their new scaled back design filosophy that lasted for all of two codexes (poor DA had to share our fate) ...and then we had that codex for two whole editions...

 

...or the 6th ed codex with insane internal balance that we also had for two editions while the loyalists got a crapton of new formations and updates. The Legion book was a band-aid because of all the whining...

 

So excuse me for not being convinced of GWs track record for chaos...

 

You know I pointed out Chaos being skipped two whole editions twice and was told well Orks waited 7 years; so clearly there's no bias, GW does not favor C:SM over CSM.  But you forgot to mention that we had to wait 18 months after C:SM got their OP Gladdius detachment to get our under-powered Traitor Legions book. Only to have it may obsolete in 6 months!

[Sersi]

 

I hear you. I know what your talking about and I feel for your anguish. But this GW is a lot different than the old GW. I still have faith in them. They have done a LOT for the game. 

 

Something else I want to point out is that their rules might have been for fun and not designed for competitive play in the past. It seems they are most focused on balancing armies for competitive play these days. 

 

Not competitive? The 3.0-3.5 CSM codex was one of the strongest ever written codexes in 40k history. 

 

 

Yes, it was. But the Scary thing is even its most abusive builds would go nowhere today.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

I hear you. I know what your talking about and I feel for your anguish. But this GW is a lot different than the old GW. I still have faith in them. They have done a LOT for the game. 

 

Something else I want to point out is that their rules might have been for fun and not designed for competitive play in the past. It seems they are most focused on balancing armies for competitive play these days. 

 

Not competitive? The 3.0-3.5 CSM codex was one of the strongest ever written codexes in 40k history. 

 

 

Yes, it was. But the Scary thing is even its most abusive builds would go nowhere today.

 

 

Dunno, maybe. Though I would take back the old oblits rules from back then in a heartbeat though. 

[Aothaine]

 

Not competitive? The 3.0-3.5 CSM codex was one of the strongest ever written codexes in 40k history. 

 

Fair. But just because a codex is strong does not mean that it was designed for a competitive field. There is a huge difference between a codex that is just strong and a codex that is designed for competitive play. The competitive play codex requires balancing and testing. A lot of the older codices did not appear to have much testing behind them. I know they do significant testing of codices now. A great example is the Sisters of Battle codex. They have been testing that for a good long time to make sure it is not only competitive but fulfills the desires of the Sisters of Battle player base. 

 

Like I said, give it some time. The Death Guard and Thousand Sons got some good treatment. World Eaters and Emperor's Children will come and the core CSM book will be great as well. We also know they are working on new CSM sculpts and they are looking fantastic.