What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

[Claws and Effect]

Strategems?

 

Unique psychic discipline?

 

Chaplain litanies?

 

Upgrade sprue?

 

Dice?

 

Primaris Shrike?

 

Unique unit?

 

Personally I'm looking forward to ALL THE THINGS. I will likely hand my GW store manager a wad of cash for like 5 upgrade sprues and 3-4 sets of dice along with data cards and the supplement itself.

 

Your thoughts?

 

(I'm honestly surprised no one started this thread before me)

[golfdeltafoxtrot]

An upgrade sprue would be cool, possibly a transfer sheet too (though I’m mostly happy working with my homemade transfers at this point).

 

Cool stratagems for sneaky stealthy stuff, tying into the new Phobos minis.

 

Perhaps a psychic discipline like the Phobos librarian gets.

 

Support for Successor Chapters like the Raptors and Necropolis Hawks (and more information about RG Successors in general, particularly Ultima Founding Successors).

[Claws and Effect]

An upgrade sprue would be cool, possibly a transfer sheet too (though I’m mostly happy working with my homemade transfers at this point).

If the revealed White Scars pack is any indication we'll get both in the same pack.

[golfdeltafoxtrot]

 

An upgrade sprue would be cool, possibly a transfer sheet too (though I’m mostly happy working with my homemade transfers at this point).

If the revealed White Scars pack is any indication we'll get both in the same pack.

That’s what I’d figured, but as I’ve got an A4 sheet of RG symbols of different sizes already I’m more excited by the prospect of actual parts.

[duz_]

I'm looking forward to the upgrade sprue (finally! :D )

As well as some square RG dice :yes:

 

I really hope Shrike gets the Primaris treatment

 

(or heresy... He doesn't make it and someone else does... Either Primaris Chapter Master please! :D )

 

The rest I'm excited for as long as it makes Marines playable again and my RG feel like sneaky slicy flying Marines :)

 

I'm hoping to get most my packing done the next 2-3 days then I might build my Repulsor Executioner :D (must remember not to pack that box...)

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Strategems?

 

Unique psychic discipline?

 

Chaplain litanies?

 

Upgrade sprue?

 

Dice?

 

Primaris Shrike?

 

Unique unit?

 

Personally I'm looking forward to ALL THE THINGS. I will likely hand my GW store manager a wad of cash for like 5 upgrade sprues and 3-4 sets of dice along with data cards and the supplement itself.

 

Your thoughts?

 

(I'm honestly surprised no one started this thread before me)

 

Strategems?

 

I would like to see SFTS fixed/buffed to be more viable again. I would like to see at least one other RG Strategem, preferably something around Jump Infantry.

 

Unique psychic discipline?

 

Based off what we have seen, this seems very likely

 

Chaplain litanies?

 

I expect these will be the default ones from the Core/Vanilla book, nothing special in our supplement (but a special one for every Supplement would be neat)

 

Upgrade sprue? Dice?

 

As with the psychic discipline, these seem very likely - I will say all my FW shoulder pads seem wasted now, as the quality on the GW official plastics is just straight better.

 

Primaris Shrike?

 

This is a tough one. In an ideal world, I would want Shrike to pass through the Rubicon Primaris and come out in a unique set of Phobos pattern armor with new Primaris Jump Pack and upgraded Shrike's Talons. however, their is not a precedent for this yet, so that seems unlikely - but possible - as we have no idea when the RG Supp falls in the timeline.

 

Unique unit? 

 

This would be sweet, and as I mentioned in my post on the news forum, I could see something happening where each FF Chapter gets a divergent unit based on a Primaris "vanilla" version release. Phobos pattern jump infantry - lets go boys!

 

I hope there is a ton of fluff, specifically new fluff with where the chapter is going into the future of the Indomitus Crusade/Bobby G's return. Maybe a hint as to the return of Corax! I agree with GDF, I would love to see more expanded on the Necropolis Hawks as well.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Double post, I almost forgot!

 

SHADOW-STRIKE KILL TEAM, PLEASE COME BACK TO ME.

[golfdeltafoxtrot]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/05/space-marines-preview-enhanced-chapter-tacticsgw-homepage-post-1-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kSpaceMarineChapterRulesAug05

 

Looks like our revised Chapter tactic has been lifted from Kill Team. Better get some more camo cloaks for my Scouts.

[thewarriorhunter]

Not sure where this goes but our new CT is up on the community page. It changed slightly. Vehicles benefit from part of it now.

 

 

 

When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against a unit with this tactic by a model that is more that 12" away, that unit is treated as having the benefit of cover to its saving throw, and if that unit is not a VEHICLE and is entirely on or in within a terrain feature, subtract 1 from the hit roll."

 

 

I like this.

[duz_]

Sad news for our CT brothers... No longer -1 to just counts as cover...

 

Wait that also means our dreads no longer benefit either... :ermm:

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

It's pretty much a straight nerf.

 

Now our models have to be in defined cover to get the -1 to Hit, which means even more discussing with your opponent about what they will let you do before the game begins, which is crappy design, imo.

 

Dreads no longer benefit, which inherently we as a community have gravitated towards over the years due to how it used to function - so that sucks pretty bad.

 

Only thing I can see from a fluff/crunch perspective that got better was RG Flyers. They now have a 2+ save all the time - when over 12" away. 

 

Ill have to do the math, but I think for 2+ Save Vehicles (Land Raiders, Contemptors, and the like), the Cover portion of the rule makes it a similar level of survivability to -1. Given, I am pretty sure it's still less, but only slightly less.

[thewarriorhunter]

Are dreadnoughts considered vehicles?

[Claws and Effect]

It's pretty much a straight nerf.

 

Now our models have to be in defined cover to get the -1 to Hit, which means even more discussing with your opponent about what they will let you do before the game begins, which is crappy design, imo.

 

Dreads no longer benefit, which inherently we as a community have gravitated towards over the years due to how it used to function - so that sucks pretty bad.

 

Only thing I can see from a fluff/crunch perspective that got better was RG Flyers. They now have a 2+ save all the time - when over 12" away.

 

Ill have to do the math, but I think for 2+ Save Vehicles (Land Raiders, Contemptors, and the like), the Cover portion of the rule makes it a similar level of survivability to -1. Given, I am pretty sure it's still less, but only slightly less.

Yep.

 

Our Chapter Tactic is the only one that got WORSE.

 

As an added personal bonus screw you....against my 2 most frequent opponents I effectively don't HAVE a Chapter Tactic anymore (my son plays Fists, who straight up ignore cover. My wife plays Blood Angels, who want to hit me in the face and won't do much shooting).

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Are dreadnoughts considered vehicles?

 

Yep, they are. For those of us that had leaned on Dreads as the focus of our CT, they are now all strictly worse - in every way/shape/form. I would argue any 3+ Dreads are likely a non-starter in the new rules - you would be better off taking Predators or some other nonsense for AT. I think Contemptors going from a 2+ to a 1+ will be the only saving grace - dread wise.

 

 

It's pretty much a straight nerf.

 

Now our models have to be in defined cover to get the -1 to Hit, which means even more discussing with your opponent about what they will let you do before the game begins, which is crappy design, imo.

 

Dreads no longer benefit, which inherently we as a community have gravitated towards over the years due to how it used to function - so that sucks pretty bad.

 

Only thing I can see from a fluff/crunch perspective that got better was RG Flyers. They now have a 2+ save all the time - when over 12" away.

 

Ill have to do the math, but I think for 2+ Save Vehicles (Land Raiders, Contemptors, and the like), the Cover portion of the rule makes it a similar level of survivability to -1. Given, I am pretty sure it's still less, but only slightly less.

Yep.

 

Our Chapter Tactic is the only one that got WORSE.

 

As an added personal bonus screw you....against my 2 most frequent opponents I effectively don't HAVE a Chapter Tactic anymore (my son plays Fists, who straight up ignore cover. My wife plays Blood Angels, who want to hit me in the face and won't do much shooting).

 

 

Agreed. What's interesting is now the relationship between both halves. 

 

• You need to be 12" away and you gain the benefit of cover (Now effecting all vehicles)
• If you were already over 12" away AND you were in cover, congratulations, you get our old CT - except dreads (and all vehicles) screw those guys.

[thewarriorhunter]

OK, I see your points...

 

But is a -1 to hit better than a +1 to save? Now everything gets a modifier where as before vehicles did not.

 

Then on top of that you can stack the -1 to hit for infantry in cover. I get that it sucks that dreads no longer get to benefit (my contemptor loved it).

 

It seems to be that now the whole army gets to benefit from a modifier against shooting at range and a smaller segment (infantry) gets an extra modifier on top of that...

 

Maybe I'm missing something since I'm not big in the competitive scene?

[duz_]

I've had more time to fully read the rule
Its not as terrible as I initially thought, I do believe someone somewhere once said +1 SV  is better than -1 to hit, but I can't remember in what circumstance

Nice thing is you will never have to pay for the Prepared Positions strat ;)

 

 

Also means you can deploy scouts and Eliminators out in the open to get their bonuses from camo cloaks :lol:

 

Getting dreads into cover would have been a pain though with current wording of this editions rules

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

OK, I see your points...

 

But is a -1 to hit better than a +1 to save? Now everything gets a modifier where as before vehicles did not.

 

Then on top of that you can stack the -1 to hit for infantry in cover. I get that it sucks that dreads no longer get to benefit (my contemptor loved it).

 

It seems to be that now the whole army gets to benefit from a modifier against shooting at range and a smaller segment (infantry) gets an extra modifier on top of that...

 

Maybe I'm missing something since I'm not big in the competitive scene?

 

So ill try to break it down into two groups - Infantry/Bikers/Dreads vs Everyone Else (This is mostly vehicles, but there are a few oddities. Bobby G is the only Monster in the book I can think of, only thing that comes to mind is Thunderfire Cannons that aren't infantry or vehicles).

 

Infantry

• Before the change: Got -1 to hit outside of 12", regardless of location
• After the change: Now only gets -1 to hit when standing within terrain AND more than 12" away
• Net: Strictly Worse
• Note: The first bit about cover means nothing to infantry. If you were in cover, you dont get double the effects of cover, you were getting cover before, youre just adding -1 to Hit

Dreads + All Non-Infantry

• Before the change: Got -1 to hit outside of 12", regardless of location
• After the change: Now only gets "Cover" when more than 12" away. Due to the nature of the cover rules, its very difficult (see: Impossible) for vehicles to claim being "within" cover, meaning they will never gain the -1 to Hit
• Note: This will effect Bikes as well

The rule is deceptive because it is written in a way that makes you think Infantry are getting two things when they got one before: They aren't. They can't be claiming the benefits of cover twice. It's effectively an either/or statement.

 

What's this mean for us going forward as an army? Our CT shoehorns us into playing a castle-style army even moreso than it did before. Moving out from our cover is very much a bad choice, as once we leave the cover, we go from -1 to hit AND cover to only cover.

 

Small upsides: 

• I'm not sure how Camo Cloak Scouts at over 12" will interact with the bonus and the wording. This may require a FAQ, but could mean Camo Cloak scouts out in the open are super-hard to kill (albeit expensive still)
• RG for the +1 Cover Save on Flyers (for the still -1 to Hit) is pretty solid.

[sultansean]

New chapter tactic has been previewed on the community site.

 

I think it is nice and fluffy but overall a bit of a nerf. Depends on how much cover you have on the table to whether you get the -1 to hit and it still does not affect vehicles.

 

The nice thing about before was that it helped your survivability even if you were on a table with light terrain. Hopefully we get some cool stratagems and warlord traits.  

 

 

 

[CaptainMarsh]

2+ save on a vehicle if it is 12 inches or more away is nice. Indeed, that part is nice across the board- going from a 3+ to a 2+ is a good lifesaver. The second half is a straight nerf to the old tactic, though it overall seems like a good Tactic. Most of the straight -1 to hit subfaction traits are likely going to be altered over time.

[thewarriorhunter]

I guess I interpret it differently.. If a marine is outside 12" and being shot at it states "that unit is treated as having the benefit of cover to its saving throw". I read that as I get a +1 to save, and if I'm already in cover that means I'm +2 to save. Nothing in the wording seems to negate cover that might already be there.

 

So my marine is saving on a +1 before anti cover modifiers are applied, and even then those would only apply to the cover via terrain, not the CT.

 

Now if that marine is in cover as well he's also -1 to hit from my opponent.

 

 

• Note: The first bit about cover means nothing to infantry. If you were in cover, you dont get double the effects of cover, you were getting cover before, youre just adding -1 to Hit

 

Small upsides: 

• I'm not sure how Camo Cloak Scouts at over 12" will interact with the bonus and the wording. This may require a FAQ, but could mean Camo Cloak scouts out in the open are super-hard to kill (albeit expensive still)

 

 

I think your note that I quoted is incorrect and that it would stack, and the point I left in your small upsides is what I think would happen all of the time. I think our CT gives us +1 to cover ON TOP of whatever other benefits we got from terrain.

[Claws and Effect]

I think your note that I quoted is incorrect and that it would stack, and the point I left in your small upsides is what I think would happen all of the time. I think our CT gives us +1 to cover ON TOP of whatever other benefits we got from terrain.</p>

Nope.

 

Guys in cover are in cover. +1 to save.

 

Guys over 12" away are also in cover +1 to save.

 

Guys over 12" away who are in cover +1 to save, -1 to hit.

 

It makes us more durable against 0 and -1 AP. Somewhat more durable against higher AP.

 

In the most practical sense, not having to roll a save because the attack missed is better than having a better save 100% of the time.

[thewarriorhunter]

Alright, well I'm going to agree to disagree with you and choose my interpretation because it's better for us :P

 

I can see it going both ways... maybe I'm just being willfully ignorant?

 

Either way I hope it gets clarified.

[Dracos]

I understand your point however I think I I’m going to feel butthurt for awhile until I see Eldar get similarly nerfed on the -1 to be hit issue.

 

-AP weapons are varied and plentiful across all Factions so .... yeah this doesn’t help much either.

 

Give me a couple days and I’ll start looking at unit possibilities again but just seems like RG combat doctrine just doesn’t suit GW vision for the game at the moment.

[CaptainMarsh]

I understand your point however I think I I’m going to feel butthurt for awhile until I see Eldar get similarly nerfed on the -1 to be hit issue.

 

-AP weapons are varied and plentiful across all Factions so .... yeah this doesn’t help much either.

 

Give me a couple days and I’ll start looking at unit possibilities again but just seems like RG combat doctrine just doesn’t suit GW vision for the game at the moment.

-AP weapons are exactly why having cover is great. A Plasma Gun save on a 6+ being a 5+ can make a world of difference in the aggregate! Plus Guard horde shorting and other massed AP-0 weapons- you effectively cut the failure rate in half. Apply this same principle to the vehicles as well.

 

Plus if your infantry are in terrain, they additionally still get the -1 to hit.

 

Of course this isn't to say it isn't annoying to be first in line to get the change, because it is. But just as RG heralded the start of the base -1 to hit, the RG will likely herald the future of its newest iteration.

[duz_]

Being in Cover give you +1

Cover saves don't stack you can't be extra in cover so highly unlikely you're going to get +2 unless they bring in some kinda KT mechanic