Ultramarines Codex Space Marines Preview - Chapter Traits

[Captain Idaho]

As can be found here, the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic has been revealed. This topic is to discuss everything within the preview article.

 

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I'll start... It's not changed which is a little lame in a shooting man's game, but not terrible. In fact, vehicles are going to love being able to fall back and shoot.

 

We will know more as the rules come out but this immediately helps Land Raiders delivering cargo or just with close ranged weapons. It's unlikely but perhaps things like Vindicators will get a buff this Codex too? (fingers crossed but breath not held!)

 

If we also get some assaulting units, our Land Raiders could even have Terminator inside or (Emperor please) revamped Honour Guard.

 

What are others thoughts?

[robofish7591]

Honestly, I wasn't really expecting our chapter tactics to change much as they were already decent.  This is definitely a big win for vehicles, especially those with flamers.  My redeemer needs to see some time on the table now!

 

Really, I am most excited to see what we get in our supplement.  Whatever we get in there will probably determine how we stack up competitively.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh for sure - the whole picture is going to be delicious. In fact let me create such a thread to drool over!

[Irbis]

They really should have changed it to no penalty, IMO, especially seeing IG doesn't get one when they do their version. Kind of agree here, no buff is lame...

[Toxichobbit]

Yeah, I'm not impressed in the slightest. Our Chapter Tactic was never the best, but it's now the worst by a long way. In some matchups it's decent, in others it's irrelevant. Seeing the others get buffed while ours stayed the same isn't a good start to the rules previews at all.

[CaptainMarsh]

It is rather middling. Of course this now applies to vehicles as well so that is nice, but I was expecting the negative to hit to vanish.

[derLumpi]

I will wait until I saw everything.

[Toxichobbit]

It is rather middling. Of course this now applies to vehicles as well so that is nice, but I was expecting the negative to hit to vanish.

 

It does, which is ok - an improvement at least. It's nice on some vehicles, stuff with auto-hit and Power of the Machine Spirit. For other vehicles though those heavy weapons will be at -2 when they shoot, so it's still a bad situation to be in compared to not having to not getting a vehicle engaged in the first place. Same for any infantry units with heavy weapons.

 

I'm hoping that we'll have some nice Stratagems that are really good value on larger sized squads. Something to actually make bigger squads appealing over MSU. Then at least the +1 Ld might actually mean something.

[Captain Idaho]

If I'm honest I've never in 8th edition had a vehicle charged other than Dreadnoughts anyway.

 

I'm not enthusiastic about it compared to the others but I'm sure we will get some other flavour.

[Stickeh]

Looking at it from GW’s point of view, the only chapter tactics that were ever used were ours and Raven guard, and not even those very frequently. I see this more as bringing the others up to par, but we can’t really say too much until the codex is in our hands

[Subtleknife]

Not impressed by it personally. All others seem to get some pretty unique and interesting tactics. We got shafted imo. Too often the opponent will either kill it on the charge or surround it. I would have much preferred they change the plus 1 to ld to casualties count as half rounding down for the purposes of morale.

[Toxichobbit]

You're all more optimistic than me - looking at how it won't be that good when vehicles get charged. I'm thinking about all the armies that are gun lines and go nowhere near combat and how our Chapter Tactic may as well not exist against them :(.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ve always thought we have the best CT and often use it to my advantage. Veteran Intercessors are no slouches in melee... being able to charge and later fall back and shoot can be quite powerful. Being able to fall back, shoot and charge again while situational is even more powerful.

[Joukernaut]

I’ve always thought we have the best CT and often use it to my advantage. Veteran Intercessors are no slouches in melee... being able to charge and later fall back and shoot can be quite powerful. Being able to fall back, shoot and charge again while situational is even more powerful.

That, unfortunately, is not something we can do.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can using the first Vigilus campaign book .

[Joukernaut]

I’ll have to look into that again, thanks for the heads up!

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a Strategum to charge after falling back.

 

Regardless of that, it's a situational benefit compared to most of the other Chapter Tactics that work most or all of the time.

[Stickeh]

I think Black Blow Fly is referring to the Grey Shield warlord trait from the Indomitus Crusaders detachment, let’s you choose an additional chapter tactic once per game, and using it for white scars CT.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That’s how you do it.

[Toxichobbit]

Even before the buffs we didn't have the best Chapter Tactic, but comparatively ours wasn't that bad because all of them were a bit weak. Raven Guard was probably better, Iron Hands and Salamanders were also superior just because they were always useful, unlike Ultramarines.

 

Now that every other Chapter tactic has been improved, ours is lagging significantly. The biggest problem with it is that it's largely reactionary. The rest of the Chapter Tactics can be optimised in list building. Ours, not so much. We're reliant upon our opponents behaving a certain way to get any use out of it.

[Joukernaut]

I’m not convinced you can’t build a list taking our chapter tactic in mind. You would need to abandon a castle type list.

I think there is room for a rush type list with the new rules.

Pushing op infiltrators and veteran intercessors in their new transport gives you the opportunity to shut down opponent shooting while keeping your own, and veteran intercessors with 4 attacks each will not be slouches in combat.

If those chaplain litanies will add to survivability we might actually be able to dominate the midfield again and push into the opponents line.

[Toxichobbit]

How much will the Chapter Tactic help though? If it's stuff that wants to be in melee with us, like Orks or Tyranids, either them or us is probably going to be wiped out before a full round has passed. With the new Shock Assault rule we actually want to be charging them rather than recieving the charge, so thats two full combat phases before we get the opportunity to Fall Back and shoot. If they do charge us, then it's only one combat phase before the Chapter Tactic kicks in which might make it a bit more likely. Either way, our units need to survive a round or two of melee before our Chapter Tactic happens, which is the problem. Likewise their unit needs to survive - no need to Fall Back if the enemy is dead.

 

Against ranged armies we charge in, fight and if they're not wiped out they Fall Back, so again not much use for our Chapter Tactic.

 

The list you propose isn't a bad idea, but it's not really utilising our Chapter Tactic and would run better as White Scars, Black Templars, Salamanders or Iron Hands.

 

It's not that our Chapter Tactic never has an effect, it will from time to time. It's that it won't have an effect regularly enough for it to ever be better than any other Chapter Tactic.

[Joukernaut]

I understand your point, but I think we look at things a bit different. To me having the ability to fall back and shoot enables you to move forward without the risk of being locked down completely and opening up the ability to lock down the opponent. It could very well mean you never actually have to use the ability, but it does force your opponent into different choices and more difficulty to control the board without being locked down.

As an example, until now I have rarely fielded my landraider crusader because it is retardedly easy to lock it down from shooting due to its short range guns. Now that it has chapter tactics I’ll be steamrolling it forward, charging it into the enemies frontline dealing mortal wounds, disembarking it’s cargo next turn, and be sure to get a chance to fire all its guns if it survives. The enemy is then forced to deal with it.

It probably will not win the biggest, most competitive tournaments but I’m pretty positive it will have some impact in more casual surroundings.

[Captain Idaho]

That’s how you do it.

Once, with a unit that isn't very special. It's a nice trick but it's likely as useful as a tank benefiting from the Ultramarines Chapter Trait...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I believe all Vigilus units can do it.