BA Codex 0.2 Speculation/Discussion

[Indefragable]

Figured this topic deserves its own thread.

 

So the big news of late is that Codex: Space Marines is being revamped to keep up with the state of the game and also include more of the models that have been released.

 

Check out Warhammer-community for details (will update with link later).

 

While there’s so much to discuss (models, dataslates, will we finally get Red Centurions?), I want to start the discussion focusing on revamped Chapter Tactics.

 

W-C.com list of revamped CT:

Hidden Content

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/05/space-marines-preview-enhanced-chapter-tacticsgw-homepage-post-1-2/

 

First off, Chapter Tactics now apply to all models in an Astartes army...so Salamander Predators re-roll a To Hit/To Wound per round, UM Land Raiders falling back and shooting, etc...

 

While thats great, as we currently stand +1 To Wound in combat for a Rhino is...uninspiring. Which leads me to suspect that should our CT get re-worked, it will follow White Scars/Raven Guard pattern and have a secondary blurb that applies to vehicles. In this case, my suspicion is that we will see the addition of BA vehicles can Advance + Shoot to recapture some of that Fast vehicle glory of yore. The Lucifer Pattern Engines Strat could then let vehicles Advance 2D6. Just my guess, nothing proven whatsoever.

 

Since they’ve tweaked things across the board, I’d personally like to see the +1 To Wound in melee be permanent and unconditional (like Encarmine Fury in 30k) with charging granting +1D and/or and additional -1AP to melee weapons to still greatly incentivize charging....but I’m not holding my breath and if we got that, would SW get a permanent +1 To Hit in melee?

 

What is inspiring is the thought that Shock Assault* stacks with Black Rage, giving all DC models +2A on the charge. That’s some serious choppiness, especially DC pack 4A each with Thunder Hammers. Yikes.

 

I personally don’t think we’ll suddenly start seeing access to thunder fires and Centurions, but this thread is to speculate away.

 

Commence!

 

 

*Shock Assault = all Astartes units get +1A when Charging, getting Charged, or HI

[Karhedron]

Yes, something to represent overcharged engines would be very welcome. Ignoring the pentalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons and counting heavy as Assault when advancing would make heavy flamers on vehicles useful again and give the Baal a reason to exist.

 

It would also synergise nicely to give a shooty bonus to compliment our melee bonus.

[Blindhamster]

They said we will get all NEW data sheets to me this morning. But that we wouldn't get all data sheets.

 

So I assume we will get the primaris stuff that isnt currently in the codex. And hopefully updates to all units that are already in our codex. Plus we will get the Angel's of death rule.

 

I don't think we will see changes to strats, I don't think we will see any changes to psychic powers, we dont know what doctrines are, but I doubt we will get them.

 

There will be no change to our chapter tactic and no telling how long it will be till we get an actual codex update so I wont speculate much on they other than I think we would keep the +1 to wound for first round of combat and probably get something relating to the fly keyword (like we had in 5th ed)

[Thaliontil]

While I agree on the possible tactic for vehicles as a very plausible option, I don't see them changing the way the Red Thirst works right now for our infantry. We are getting Shock Assault, so the combination of +1 attack and +1 to wound is "enough" to consider us a pretty devastating army on the charge. I think that the changes will probably be focused on certain units (My bet is on Sanguinary Guard) and not on the army as a whole, as the Red Thirst, as it stands right now, is both powerful and fluffy.

[The4thHorseman]

I could see a Lucifer Engine type buff, but I'd expect it to be toned down. Something like when making an advance roll for a vehicle other than a Dreadnought roll 2D6 and pick the highest. Which if you max it and add the current Lucifer Engine strat then your looking at 24" moving vehicle.

[Karhedron]

Just to clarify, I fully agree that I don't expect the PDF to change our current Trait. Rather I was working on the assumption that at some point in the next 12 months, we will get a revised codex that brings our Trait into line with the 2-part traits that are appearing in the new vanilla codex.

 

Unit wise, we will have to wait and see if we get full access or just the new Primaris stuff. I have lived this long without a Thunderfire or Centurions, I doubt I would rush out and buy them if they did become available.

[Captain Antargo]

This new rule is perfect for Sanguinary Guard and Terminators, it's like close combat dakka!

[Karhedron]

Agreed. All our Elite assault units and characters will love this and our Scouts get even better too.

[Orblivion]

Shock Assault itself is enough to make me happy for now since I'm still assuming we'll see Primaris Dante (maybe others) either later this year or early next year as part of another campaign.  The only other thing I really want to see right now is updated rules for the Encarmine weapons, which are currently garbage.

[BluejayJunior]

I don't think the rules for Encarmine weapons are garbage. What needs fixed is they points cost of them. 

[Orblivion]

I don't think the rules for Encarmine weapons are garbage. What needs fixed is they points cost of them. 

 

Nothing's worth in the game is ever truly viewed in a vacuum, their cost is part of their rules IMO.

[Panzer]

Unfortunately they are too expensive even when not viewed in a vacuum or people wouldn't all go for powerfists instead.

[Brother Cruoris]

I wonder if we will get access to the successor chapter rules to. Being able to combine the BA +1 to wound with the white scars advance/fall back and charge trait would be quite nice. =P

[Panzer]

Doesn't look like we are going to. It looks like BA, DA, SW, DW and GK will stay separate from the Main Codex + Supplements structure. At least for now.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I got told by the warhammer 40,000 official page that there is no need to get the marine codex, everything relevant to us will be in the free pdf. Which suggests our changes will be incredibly limited and also that any codex update is a long long way off

[Slothysaur]

At least that means that we won't get rolled into the main codex in the near future. I wouldn't want what happened to the Black Templars to happen to us (I know it's 1st founding vs. 2nd founding, but the fear is still there).

[Panzer]

At least that means that we won't get rolled into the main codex in the near future. I wouldn't want what happened to the Black Templars to happen to us (I know it's 1st founding vs. 2nd founding, but the fear is still there).

 

I wouldn't mind getting rolled into the Main Codex + Supplement structure though. It's not similar to the Black Templars since this time around all the vanilla chapters are getting a supplement book on top of what's in the Main Codex.

[Indefragable]

I wonder if we will get access to the successor chapter rules to. Being able to combine the BA +1 to wound with the white scars advance/fall back and charge trait would be quite nice. =P

I doubt it.

 

I’m thinking that BA/DA/SW/DW/GK get two-part chapter tactics like the Codex: SM are now. I speculate that Flesh Tearers and other Successor chapters than swap out the second half of the CT for something else unique to the book. Same for DA successors, but it would be specific options b/c doing stuff like +1 To Wound + re-roll charges or Fall Back and charge seems a bit much. (I’d take it, though!)

[Slothysaur]

 

 

At least that means that we won't get rolled into the main codex in the near future. I wouldn't want what happened to the Black Templars to happen to us (I know it's 1st founding vs. 2nd founding, but the fear is still there).

I wouldn't mind getting rolled into the Main Codex + Supplement structure though. It's not similar to the Black Templars since this time around all the vanilla chapters are getting a supplement book on top of what's in the Main Codex.

That was my initial thought, but if they ever went back to one massive book, we could lose all the fluff were used too. Either way it's mostly paranoia and fear of change, but that's my silver lining in the matter of staying stand alone and potentially missing out on better rules. Gotta love the fluff :)

[Pathstrider]

I think I'd prefer to be rolled into the main book + codex supplement rather than the situation at the moment.

 

I've played since first edition, so I've seen all the variants - out of all of them, the only edition that felt like we were really different to vanilla marines was 5th edition where they introduced a lot of rules to support a different playstyle (e.g. Assault Marines being actually viable by being troops + sanguinary priests FNP buble). So when there is effort put in, it really works - but then we get long update cycles and spend a lot of time with rules that are outdated and no longer work. So the way to get more regular updates is via being associated with the main codex.

 

Also, right now,it doesn't feel like GW want to go that far at differentiating given the latest codex - and especially as any new releases will be us getting access to primairs rather than dedicated new stuff. At the same time generally Vanila armies are much more diverse via chapter tactics and statagems compared previous editions so it's not as big a loss as it once was.

[Indefragable]

For what it’s worth, my understanding is that we get a PDF that updates our current Codex to include all Astartes-wide changes and updates that go in to effect when the vanilla ‘dex drops...

 

...that does NOT mean we will not be seeing a full Codex update in the future. In fact, I would put money down that we do see a full BA Codex 0.2 drop, just not for a while. GW knows that factions like SW, BA, and DA are cash machines since we will (and have to) buy both “regular” SM unit’s and our own faction ones.

 

The fact that GW is creating supplements for each in-Codex chapter makes me think they will go the direction of more products, not less, so in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a BA Codex 0.2 + Supplements for Flesh Tearers and Lamenters

[Charlo]

So I'm very much of the opinion that when we DO get a codex we will probably see a BA specific Primaris unit, or at least a variant.

[Xerxus]

They are currently giving all Legions at least one Rubicon character - I expect them to give the same treatment to Dante and Mephiston, even though Dante presents a jump pack predicament. Other characters are possible but not likely. Then there is the pipe dream of getting Sanguinorius, the not-Primarch.

[Blindhamster]

I dont think we will see supplements for our successors. If we remain a full codex long term then they'll continue to share codex space. I doubt we will get a codex update for at least 9-12 months though.

[Blindhamster]

Well, new update is interesting and tells us exactly what we will get.

 

We dont get doctrines (which is a frankly huge loss)

 

Doesn't look like we will see changes to stuff like our chaplains etc either.

 

I'm seriously considering running my BA with some successor rules right now, as pure primaris is totally not worth it as a BA compared to any codex marine chapter for the time being.