Ultramarines Codex Space Marines Preview - Doctrines

[Captain Idaho]

As can be found here the Space Marines Doctrines rules have been revealed. This topic is to discuss everything within the preview article relating to the Doctrines rules and how that will affect Ultramarines.

 

From the article it is clear we are going to get a substantial boost to many units that do (and don't!) need it with these Doctrines.

 

Terminators, all of our heavy weapons, Predator Autocannons and Whirlwinds, Assault Marines... all with AP bonuses. A Tactical Marine squad becomes quite dangerous with its heavy and special weapons (got to add some Flamers now!) while Intercessors are quite fiendish with a -2 for their mere Bolters.

 

Obviously high AP weapons like Primaris Plasma aren't too fussed of course, but again that won't matter much because all those other Rapid Fire weapons will be enjoying the benefits.

 

And has GW just given balanced, fluffy lists a new lease of life? Lots of cheap Bolters might just be viable!

[Toxichobbit]

I dunno if we can discuss how this will affect Ultramarines specifically yet. Not to a huge degree anyway. At the moment, we don't really know what it means to be an Ultramarine. We have our Chapter Tactic, which is a bit duff and doesn't do that much. But we don't have any of our Chapter specific stratagems, units, named characters, psychic powers, relics etc to really get into the meat and veg. So much is dependent upon our supplement.

 

A more general discussion is totally doable though.

 

What I'm really interested in is if the new Doctrines are going to give Marines the opportunity to make a balanced army, which to me is the epitome of the Ultramarines. As in an army that performs decent at long range, mid range and melee. They seem to encourage that, while still allowing for a more ranged or melee heavy build. I like them a lot.

 

Also, I have no idea where to start with these Doctrines. They're such a huge change that I can't decide what I want to try out first.

[jonjacob]

I'm liking the release so far i just hope the codex will bring more of revision to the classic units to make them more viable.

 

I still think scouts will be a top pick over any troops choice we have. Maybe they'll fix the drop pod.

[Joukernaut]

I'm going to enjoy running a mechanized list with razorbacks peppering the enemy supported by whirlwinds and mortars, disembarking my marines to wreak havoc with bolterfire and finishing them off with a charge of wirring chainsword wielding marines. I'm liking this a lot and I plan to play in a true space marine fashion.

[Joukernaut]

I might even buy one of them fancy primaries transports and throw an intercessor or hell blaster unit in it to join in on the fun.

[Captain Idaho]

Whirlwinds get -2 AP now, as do Predator Autocannons, under the Devastator Doctrine.

 

Centurions just became even nastier.

 

Devastators with Missile Launchers just broke the game. -1AP Frag and -3AP Krak... (Imagine a drool face emoji)

 

Other things on the top of my head...

 

Tactical Marines with plasma now have Cawl Plasma ;)

 

Tacticals with Bolters and heavy Bolters will be nasty. Lots of Heavy Bolters will be nasty now actually.

 

Dreadnoughts now get amazing Assault Cannons.

 

And Terminators... Imagine all that rapid fire.

[Joukernaut]

I'm drooling at the thought of all those stormbolter death already.

And what about -3 lightning claws (victrix guard vanguard spring to mind immediately).

Theres just so many good things if you add -1 to the AP.

[Subtleknife]

I wonder if the supplement will give some ultra specific doctrine? I do hope we retain our 3 plus invun relic

[Paulinus]

So our chapter tactic hasn’t changed much but I think it has a bigger impact than one would think. The tactic was already good. Being able to leave melee and shoot even at a -1 was pretty good. Eliminators now help us us even more by allowing the squad a +1 to shoot so fall back and shoot at full BS. now that our vehicles get the trait it means things like land raiders and predators can still shoot.

 

Overall a win.

 

If we still have formations, stalker bolt rifle intercessors with the idomitus veteran strat will be amazingly stupid with 2 damage and being at -2 and mortal wounds on 6s and sniper. Yes please.

 

vanguard vets with the victrix formation...shock assault rule means 5 attacks with -1 save per model. A ten man squad that gets charged gets 50 attacks with fight first for ultramar, then potentially another 50 if interrupting or if veiled of timed then fight again using the strat assuming the fight twice strat is still there. 150 str 4 ap 1 attacks in one melee phase. Let’s not even factor any rerolls from auras.

 

I’m excited for what this will mean for the Ultras. A 5 wound Tigurius works for me too.

[Toxichobbit]

Stalker bolt rifles will be at AP-3. -2 native and -1 from Devastator Doctrine. You could push that to -4 with Storm of Fire, but for character killing -3 is usually plenty.

[Captain Idaho]

We don't know if Doctrines work for vehicles but I'm thinking the biggest winners could very well be them over infantry for the Devastator Doctrine.

 

Hmm. I'm thinking Whirlwinds with Vengeance missiles will be a good thing at D2 a piece. Storm Talons are pretty nasty with Heavy Bolters.

[Ishagu]

I think the Doctrines are very good but I'll wait to see how our supplament pans out. Our CT is one of the weakest, if not THE weakest, but I'll reserve any judgment until we've seen everything.

[Captain Idaho]

It almost sounds like you're thinking of jumping ship! ;)

 

The Doctrines will help out a bunch but won't break the game, especially with our bolters. After all, having used Sternguard with Masterful Marksmanship, the damage is still fairly average.

 

It's our heavy weapons and force multiplier weapons that will shine.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think our CT is still red hot. SM are truly jack of all trades again.

[Joukernaut]

I think our CT is still red hot. SM are truly jack of all trades again.

This is exactly what I'm thinking, my marines feel flexible again.

[Subtleknife]

Well our supplement preview is up. The tactical doctrine is nice always rapid firing bolters will be deadly and if it applies to vehicles too as it will mean dreads can move and shoot without penalty.

[Captain Idaho]

It mentioned Vehicles in the article so our Dreads and Storm Talons just got better!

 

What a glorious day!

[Joukernaut]

The feeling of my ultramarines getting back the flexibility they once had, is getting stronger every day. Seems that a lot of old units will be viable to use in non-extreme environment. This make me a happy panda. Bolters can be badass again!

[Stickeh]

A crusader with tactical doctrine active is back on the menu since beta bolters was changed. Along with moving and firing heavy weapons, which makes terminators with a cyclone or assault cannon slightly more usable

[Prot]

Something I’ve dabbled with in the past might be useful again... Cataphractii Terminators.

[derLumpi]

How so? Would be great to put them to good use.

[Joukernaut]

If they are, I’ll find out

[Captain Idaho]

There's GOT to be Strategum support for Terminators too.

 

Pity GW refuses to release new classic Marines. Agemman has been requested by Ultras fans for literally years and this Codex is the time to add him.

 

*sigh*

[Tamiel]

Does this mean that bolters are ALWAYS rapid firing when you stay in Tactical Doctrine? So you can move your 10man squad of veteran intercessors, and still shoot 40 shots every turn (assuming you didnt lose any guys)?

[Ishagu]

Yeah, you count as standing still. The units that benefit most are:

 

-Aggressors (double their shots, crazy)

-Veteran Intercessors (Can now shoot 4x each at 30" range and AP-2 after moving)

-Redemptor Dread (Lots of Dakka that now hits on a 3+)

-Replusor Executioner (gets to shoot twice even if moving full distance)