Ultramarines Codex Space Marines Preview - Doctrines

[Tamiel]

Dreads, preds, air units, landspeeders. All of these things get to fire their heavy weapons without penalty during the TAC doctrine. And during the DEV doctrine, they get a -1 AP to their heavy weapons. Nice.

[Toxichobbit]

Yeah, you count as standing still. The units that benefit most are:

 

-Aggressors (double their shots, crazy)

-Veteran Intercessors (Can now shoot 4x each at 30" range and AP-2 after moving)

-Redemptor Dread (Lots of Dakka that now hits on a 3+)

-Replusor Executioner (gets to shoot twice even if moving full distance)

 

That list feels like you've just ignored half the Codex. I'm not convinced. Assault cannon Razorbacks, multi-melta Devastator's in Drop Pods, Leviathans ... there's more to Marines than Primaris and some of the classic stuff is getting a fantastic boost.

[Ishagu]

There's more to be unlocked for sure.

[Toxichobbit]

It's actually kind of overwhelming. I keep looking at stuff and thinking "ohhh, that's suddenly playable" or "now I can do this with it". Gonna take quite some time to play everything and work out what I want to use regularly.

 

I'm now looking at Quad Mortar Rapiers and thinking how tasty they will be with Devastator and Tactical doctrine. Especially with Master of Strategy letting them move first turn to get their shatter shells into range without penalty, at AP-3. Seems really solid for 65 points a go.

[Captain Idaho]

Whirlwinds really benefit from the Devastator Doctrine. AP-2 And D2 is a decent artillery piece, whilst 2D6 S6 AP-1 shots is also very tidy.

 

****

 

I was thinking the same thing! I've not felt this optimistic about a Codex in a long time.

 

I've really missed the discussions for all the combinations that are viable on the B&C as soup often meant there was only one or two true obvious competitive lists. I think we're on the cusp of a golden age!

[Toxichobbit]

And don't forget auto-hitting, if you take a Land Speeder. Which you might actually do now as it can move and fire without penalty (though not on the same turn that the Whirlwinds are getting AP-1).

[robofish7591]

True, but if you load up those speeders with heavy flamers, they will be hitting at AP -2 during devastator doctrine.

[UnkyHamHam]

I am so excited about everything. Breathing life into old marines AND the new shiny tall boys bringing the pain.

 

I'd like to say that Suppressors might actually make sense now ignoring the heavy weapon penalty.

[Toxichobbit]

True, but if you load up those speeders with heavy flamers, they will be hitting at AP -2 during devastator doctrine.

 

Yeah, that's true. So tasty :D

 

 

Or is that toasty...

[ChaoticEric]

Yeah, you count as standing still. The units that benefit most are:

 

-Aggressors (double their shots, crazy)

-Veteran Intercessors (Can now shoot 4x each at 30" range and AP-2 after moving)

-Redemptor Dread (Lots of Dakka that now hits on a 3+)

-Replusor Executioner (gets to shoot twice even if moving full distance)

 

Don't veteran intercessors with bolt rifles actually get 8 shots at 30" with the rapid fire stratagem? The stratagem make their bolt rifles rapid fire 2, bolter discipline doubles that to rapid fire 4 at half range if moving or full range if they remain stationary. Scions of guilliman make them able to count as remaining stationary even if they moved? I might have missed something in what stacks with what though.

[Captain Idaho]

Bolter Discipline doesn't double your attacks but lets you rapid fire up to maximum range instead.

[ChaoticEric]

Bolter Discipline doesn't double your attacks but lets you rapid fire up to maximum range instead.

 

You're probably correct but the rule actually reads "... Rapid Fire bolt weapons used by models with this ability make double the number of attacks if any of the following apply:

- The firing model's target is within half the weapon's maximum range.

- The firing model remained stationary during its previous Movement phase.

"

?

 

I'm reading it off of the article on the community where it was introduced. Maybe it's been amended later?

[Ishagu]

Yes, and double the number of attacks is 2, which then becomes 4 with the stratagem.

[Rogue]

A lot of people mis-read it that way when it came out.

 

The new rule adds additional conditions in which the bolter's single shot is doubled to two shots. So now you get double shots at half range and if you remain stationary.

 

It doesn't double up on the already doubled rapid fire condition at short range.

[ChaoticEric]

Took me a while to figure it out even after you guys had explained it but now I got my head around it

 

Where I messed up is that bolter discipline replaces the normal rapid fire rule, it doesn't add on to or stack with the rapid fire rule.

 

Thanks for explaining it.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Two thoughts.

 

1.) I would not be surprised if Scions of Guilliman and/or doctrines only apply to infantry. We have already seen GW's reluctance to have the super soldier rules make super vehicles and the CTs now provide flavor to vehicles without applying every Astartes USR.

 

2.) I wouldn't be surprised if Ultramarines lists often just skipped Devastator Doctrine and went straight for the Tactical boogaloo.

[Captain Idaho]

Two thoughts.

 

1.) I would not be surprised if Scions of Guilliman and/or doctrines only apply to infantry. We have already seen GW's reluctance to have the super soldier rules make super vehicles and the CTs now provide flavor to vehicles without applying every Astartes USR.

 

2.) I wouldn't be surprised if Ultramarines lists often just skipped Devastator Doctrine and went straight for the Tactical boogaloo.

Regarding 1)... I think they actually confirmed vehicles benefit from Doctrines in the preview for our Supplement:

 

"Well, such is the tactical mastery of the Ultramarines that they receive an additional benefit when the Tactical Doctrine is active – a handy advantage when moving squads or Vehicles armed with heavy weapons, and it also works well in conjunction with Bolter Discipline."

 

They even linked a Predator for us instead of a Repulsor!

 

2) Yeah I reckon many people will, I agree.

 

Up to them but I want my AP-2 Heavy Bolters and enhanced Missile Launchers so yes I'll take advantage of Master of Strategy if I want to change up quick.

[Joukernaut]

For me it will depend on the list I build and the opponent I face. Lots of heavy guns and heavily armored foes will probably mean devastator doctrine for a bit longer. A demon horde will probably mean skipping to tactical straight away. In most of my games I will probably a very balanced list and still expect it to do well. I'll be running a lot of full terminator lists as well for my project, in those games I'll probably switch to tactical very quickly and fully expect to make use of the assault one as well.

[Subtleknife]

Anyone seen the martial precision strat for ultras. I think the guy misread it as he said you pick a unit and it automatically hits. Seems way overpowered as you can just but it on an executioner. Can anyone clarify.

[Oxydo]

Anyone seen the martial precision strat for ultras. I think the guy misread it as he said you pick a unit and it automatically hits. Seems way overpowered as you can just but it on an executioner. Can anyone clarify.

 

It was only for 1 attack, aka 1 attack roll. So for when you need that melta clutch hit.

[Subtleknife]

Ah fair one. Still will be pretty good for any eldar fliers. Auto hitting las cannons etc.

[Captain Idaho]

One attack is more balancing but still, whack it on a Lascannon and laugh at the Eldar tears! ;)

[UnkyHamHam]

Anyone seen the martial precision strat for ultras. I think the guy misread it as he said you pick a unit and it automatically hits. Seems way overpowered as you can just but it on an executioner. Can anyone clarify.

Pretty sure it's pick a model and for 1 hit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s one model.

[Ishagu]

 

 

Anyone seen the martial precision strat for ultras. I think the guy misread it as he said you pick a unit and it automatically hits. Seems way overpowered as you can just but it on an executioner. Can anyone clarify.

It was only for 1 attack, aka 1 attack roll. So for when you need that melta clutch hit.

Is it one single roll or one weapon?