1st Turn Drop Pods ?

[mertbl]

I didnt think of that at all. The ability to tag a drop pod with almost no downsides is genius.

 

One "solution" would be to allow friendly models to shoot at enemy units within 1" of a drop pod. Even go as far as any 1s hit the pod, hell any misses hit the pod.

 

 

Drop pods now have a role but their big drawback is still there - they are immobile so they cannot fall back from combat. They have minimal defence from assault with weak overwatch and combat attacks.

 

An opponent with fly or any other way to fall back and still shoot will just use them to negate your next shooting phase. An opponent with hit and run (White Scars, Harlequins) will spend the rest of the game playing tag with your drop pods to never be shot at again.

 

A drop pod list needs to make the alpha strike really count or else it can have put itself in a bad position against a smart opponent. Drop pod assault lists do not quite have the same problem because they do not care if they lose some shooting - their problem is Infiltrators which are a hard counter against reserves assault armies.

[Marshal van Trapp]

Doesnt it only ignore the turn one deployment rule? RAW the rule is "drop pods and models embarked within them ignore the MATCHED PLAY rules for tactical reserves"

RAW tactical reserves reads half of your army must be deployed on the board and IN MATCHED PLAY you cannot deploy any tactical reserves until turn 2

 

I may be missing something but tactical reserves as a whole is not a matched play rule but contains a specific matched play rule that the drop pod ignores?

[Morticon]

Marshall, that may be the intent, but matchedplay rules are mentioned in three places in the tactical reserve rule.

 

I'm sure it will be faqed to just be the first turn exemption, but you never know

[Marshal van Trapp]

Oh my goodness you are right! I just reread the rule and all 3 paragraphs include matched play... but there is still a rule by which if you have no models on the table you loose isnt there?

[Kallas]

Oh my goodness you are right! I just reread the rule and all 3 paragraphs include matched play... but there is still a rule by which if you have no models on the table you loose isnt there?

 

From the Core Rulebook FAQ:

"Page 215 – Sudden Death Change point 2 to read: ‘If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one player has no models on the battlefield, the game ends immediately and their opponent automatically wins a crushing victory. When determining if a player has any units on the battlefield, do not include any units with the Flyer Battlefield Role – these units cannot operate within a combat airspace indefinitely and they cannot hold territory without ground support. Furthermore, do not include any units with the Fortification Battlefield Role unless they have a unit embarked inside – even the most formidable bastion requires a garrison if it is to pose a threat.’"

 

It only triggers after the first battle round, so you could, if this doesn't get FAQ/Errata'd, actually null deploy Marines.

[Marshal van Trapp]

 

 

Oh my goodness you are right! I just reread the rule and all 3 paragraphs include matched play... but there is still a rule by which if you have no models on the table you loose isnt there?

From the Core Rulebook FAQ:

"Page 215 – Sudden Death Change point 2 to read: ‘If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one player has no models on the battlefield, the game ends immediately and their opponent automatically wins a crushing victory. When determining if a player has any units on the battlefield, do not include any units with the Flyer Battlefield Role – these units cannot operate within a combat airspace indefinitely and they cannot hold territory without ground support. Furthermore, do not include any units with the Fortification Battlefield Role unless they have a unit embarked inside – even the most formidable bastion requires a garrison if it is to pose a threat.’"

 

It only triggers after the first battle round, so you could, if this doesn't get FAQ/Errata'd, actually null deploy Marines.

Gross, I love it!

[Happy-inquisitor]

I didnt think of that at all. The ability to tag a drop pod with almost no downsides is genius.

 

One "solution" would be to allow friendly models to shoot at enemy units within 1" of a drop pod. Even go as far as any 1s hit the pod, hell any misses hit the pod.

 

 

 

 

Yes, if they had some version of the rule that fortifications get to allow you to shoot at units within 1" of them I would be a lot more impressed by drop pods. As it is I think they have a serious downside which some opponents will exploit well. 

 

As most marine armies are going to have a heavy emphasis on shooting I don't think they can afford to pay points to put something on the table that gives their opponent a way to avoid being shot at for very little risk to themselves. Of course I could be wrong, the advantages of T1 drop pods might be enough - especially if they do not FAQ the option of a null deploy - to make it worth that tactical drawback. If someone pulls that off successfully against smart opposition I will tip my hat to them and raise a glass to the return of Steel Rain.

[Hantheman]

This will lead to some very... competitive people just blocking in

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Planetfall is back baby!

[ERJAK]

I think White Scars, with their new Stratagem that gives a unit a 3D6" charge, will do very well with Drop Pods. Turn 1, drop in a Pod with 10 Vanguard Vets (all Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers) and a second Pod next to it with a Chapter Master (PF/SB), Lieutenant (CS/SB), Stormseer (Mantle of the Stormseer Relic), and 7 Sternguard (all with SBs>

 

After arrival the Stormseer uses powers to, number one, give the Vanguard Veterans +2" top their charge rolls and, number two, prevent the enemy from overwatching. The Sternguard and Characters then use their shooting to clear out any chaff units in the way and then, in the Charge phase, pop the 3D6" charge stratagem on the Vanguard Veterans, then have them charge in with 30 x S8 AP-3 D3 attacks, re-rolling all misses --- thanks to the Chapter Master --- and also re-rolling 1s to Wound because of the Lieutenant.... pretty devastating, even against a T8 3+ Imperial Knight, that averages out to 32 Unsaved Wounds in a single turn!

 

After this, in subsequent turns (i.e. Turn 2 on), you can continue to "rinse and repeat" and carve your way through the enemy back lines. Once you get to turn 3 and can choose to activate the Assault Doctrine, then your Thunder Hammers become AP-4 and D4 on the charge, so even more ridiculous and deadly.

So 3d6 charge averages 10.5 inches. Consider that properly spaced chaff should be buying between 3-5 inches of space for the units behind it, you're looking optimistically at a 12" charge. That's still VERY failable, even with stormseer. You're also almost definitely not getting either of the character auras without daisy chaining. Rinsing and repeating is very unlikely.

 

With how heavily it relies on stratagems, psychic powers, subpar deployment, available targets of opportunity and simple blind luck, I can't see a world where putting a unit of Devs with Grav and a captain in a pod isn't a more effective, reliable strategy.

[Kallas]

With how heavily it relies on stratagems, psychic powers, subpar deployment, available targets of opportunity and simple blind luck, I can't see a world where putting a unit of Centurions with Grav and a captain in a pod isn't a more effective, reliable strategy.

 

Well, for one, Centurions can't go in a pod 

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

Oh my goodness you are right! I just reread the rule and all 3 paragraphs include matched play... but there is still a rule by which if you have no models on the table you loose isnt there?

From the Core Rulebook FAQ:

"Page 215 – Sudden Death Change point 2 to read: ‘If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one player has no models on the battlefield, the game ends immediately and their opponent automatically wins a crushing victory. When determining if a player has any units on the battlefield, do not include any units with the Flyer Battlefield Role – these units cannot operate within a combat airspace indefinitely and they cannot hold territory without ground support. Furthermore, do not include any units with the Fortification Battlefield Role unless they have a unit embarked inside – even the most formidable bastion requires a garrison if it is to pose a threat.’"

 

It only triggers after the first battle round, so you could, if this doesn't get FAQ/Errata'd, actually null deploy Marines.

Gross, I love it!

It's iffy. Cool, you null deployed and denied your opponent a turn of shooting, awesome...except...drop pods are what...65pts a pop now? Even cramming in 10 marines per pod you're looking at several hundred points dedicated to just drop pods. You'd be hoping and praying that your 1200-1500pt army could cripple their 2000pt army in one turn because if not it would be a shooting gallery for your opponent.

[ERJAK]

 

 

With how heavily it relies on stratagems, psychic powers, subpar deployment, available targets of opportunity and simple blind luck, I can't see a world where putting a unit of Centurions with Grav and a captain in a pod isn't a more effective, reliable strategy.

Well, for one, Centurions can't go in a pod

Grav devs then. W/e, it's still more effective than making hail mary charges with overpriced CQC units.

 

Also, was that an 8th ed thing? I haven't even looked at Centurions since 7th and they definitely used to be able to go in pods.

[SkimaskMohawk]

More like centurions in pods was a 7th thing. 6th and 8th disallows it