Possessed Core... Again

[Prot]

So I’m going to give another go at Possessed as a Core selection in my Chaos. This time I’m going to ask for advice as I found it falls apart against some competitive match ups.

 

I think my issue may have been partly to do with my addiction to Abaddon and a shooty firebase where I think Abaddon tends to work best. At this point I’m thinking of foregoing all the specialized shooting and try a list that is largely not dedicated to shooting.... no Oblits, no Havocs, no shooty Daemon Engines.

 

So I really want to draw fire from the Possessed rhino and character Rhino. I plan on including a bare minimum Chaos Knight super heavy detachment. This will include a pure CC Knight and two melta sword Wardogs. Very likely these will be Iconoclast because that’s all I’ve really played so far with my Tyrant ( he won’t be in this game).

 

The Core is 10 Possessed. 2 Rhinos. 1 Master of Possession, an Exalted Champ ( never used him with possessed before), 2 Greater Possessed (1 will have the detachment Specialist Warlord trait) a Dark Apostle ( for -1 to hit on their rhino if I go second) and finally a Daemon prince for Warp Time.

 

I even threw 6 or so bikes in with three meltas for some fast moving hitting power.

 

Is this too Character heavy? Which characters are must for a Possessed list? I almost always run Black Legion since Vigilus Ablaze. Should I be using Red Corsairs? The bikes and Possessed will largely trying to take advantage of shock troop bonus attacks. Do I have enough bodies?

 

In the past I always ran 2-3 Disco Lords with my Possessed but it never quite worked. Although the master of possession works great with all those units, the Discos die too soon and super hard targets.... like Knights really gave them a hard time in tournaments.

 

I know there’s a lot of info in there but as you can tell I’ve been trying this type of list for a while and I felt it wouldn’t hurt to get some fresh advice on the whole idea of it especially with the new shock assault rule.

[Tallarn Commander]

This sounds like a promising plan.

 

Would you be able to work in another squad of possessed in a Rhino?

 

The 2nd Possessed Squad would synergize nicely with your 5 buffing characters and you could put some of your characters in Rhinos.

 

I don't think 5 characters is too many since you have a plan for each one and they all contribute to your plan.

[Prot]

I suppose there’s always the ability to do that. I could pull bikes. The idea of a single 10 man squad is to use all buffs on it... the Litanies, psychic buffs, etc, etc. But I could do two 7 man squads spread in the Rhinos. Is that the better choice?

[McElMcNinja]

I've been trying to get my Possessed to work as well. I put them in a vanguard detachment of AL for the -1 to hit and forward ops. I've included a sorcerer for warp time and miasma (adding a dark apostle might help, with the prayer even going second they would be -2 to hit). I also have a unit of berserkers and a hellbrute w/fist x2 to complete the detachment.

Then I have a DG battalion detachment, 2x plague marines riding in rhinos with supporting characters, while some poxwalkers, characters, and leviathan sit back.

This gives me a few options to warp time and maybe make my opponent think which is a bigger threat or softer target.

But adding in the apostle is something I want to try, so rethinking this...

[Excessus]

I feel like Greater Possessed and MoPs are good to have.

 

Also could have venomcrawlers running behind them to benefit from the auras as well. The +1S works with their shooting too.

[Dallas Drake]

Honestly, I tried possessed every way I could think. I’ve found that in 8th ed. melee is just not that good to go to the trouble if you want a competitive build but I did beat other armies with them (mainly marines & Orks), they struggled big time against Eldar, GSC and Nids. Shooting is just so good, prob why all the tournament lists feature significant shooting. With that in mind to make melee work IMO it needs T2 charges at a min. I’d go 20 renegade (Flawless host or Brazen Beasts) Possessed, warptime them to get move+advance+move+advance+charge. MoP can make them 2+d3 attacks now so not bad output. Then either Slaanesh Daemons and add a herald to go for fight twice etc. Or mark them as Khorne so you can fight twice that way. Alpha Legion could work too, Forward Operatives 12” deploy+9” so 21” then move+warptime (14”) +charge. Make them AL Nurgle and you can get -3 to hit on them, sounds excessive but with all the +1 to hit out there it’s not a bad idea plus you have redundancy if you fail one roll. I think Black Legion chosen of the pantheon is a trap.

When I tried Rhinos to deliver them it was a disaster.

 

Edit. I know Nick Nanavati tried to make Possessed work around the time the CSM codex came out. His list is here but I have no idea how it did as there is no way I’d pay to watch 40k content.

 

https://nightsatthegametable.com/blog/2019/04/10/live-stream-nick-nanavati-vs-brad-nichols-new-chaos-vs-gsc-nids-4-11-130pm-est/

[MegaVolt87]

How does the MoP stack up compared to our apostle and sorc to buff possesed? Not familiar enough with MoP, I like the model though.

[MasterDeath]

Some input from a angle a bit different. I plan on using a Possessed Elite Detachement as a kind of breaker for my Nurgle Daemon Army. The Synergies they get from Daemons are insane. I made a list somewhere. That works for most kinds of Daemons.

[Prot]

Honestly, I tried possessed every way I could think. I’ve found that in 8th ed. melee is just not that good to go to the trouble if you want a competitive build but I did beat other armies with them (mainly marines & Orks), they struggled big time against Eldar, GSC and Nids. Shooting is just so good, prob why all the tournament lists feature significant shooting. With that in mind to make melee work IMO it needs T2 charges at a min. I’d go 20 renegade (Flawless host or Brazen Beasts) Possessed, warptime them to get move+advance+move+advance+charge. MoP can make them 2+d3 attacks now so not bad output. Then either Slaanesh Daemons and add a herald to go for fight twice etc. Or mark them as Khorne so you can fight twice that way. Alpha Legion could work too, Forward Operatives 12” deploy+9” so 21” then move+warptime (14”) +charge. Make them AL Nurgle and you can get -3 to hit on them, sounds excessive but with all the +1 to hit out there it’s not a bad idea plus you have redundancy if you fail one roll. I think Black Legion chosen of the pantheon is a trap.

When I tried Rhinos to deliver them it was a disaster.

 

Edit. I know Nick Nanavati tried to make Possessed work around the time the CSM codex came out. His list is here but I have no idea how it did as there is no way I’d pay to watch 40k content.

 

https://nightsatthegametable.com/blog/2019/04/10/live-stream-nick-nanavati-vs-brad-nichols-new-chaos-vs-gsc-nids-4-11-130pm-est/

 

Nick's list feels dated at about the time everyone was talking about a blob of undivided Possessed that would try to take advantage of every mark. The list itself is a blob of units taking board control and would probably play a lot more like a "Jim Vassal" kind of list. I want to hit a lot harder than this, and I don't want to be chasing flyers around the board and cursing at armour. Right now Knights, Caladius Grav, Deldar Air-show, are super hot. I want to be able to interact with those.

 

Modernizing a list like his, I'd rather go with Contorted Epitome route using the MoP. I've done this in numerous games, even went out and bought an Epitome when they came out. It does work... it's just a big points investment and makes the Knights very difficult to take.

 

 

How does the MoP stack up compared to our apostle and sorc to buff possesed? Not familiar enough with MoP, I like the model though.

 

Well if I'm answering this... I find the Apostle is mostly about that -1 to hit bonus when you don't get first turn, and as others mention, you stack it with Miasma and some armies have a lot of trouble with it. The MoP is something I love with any "daemon" marine unit... his ability to increase their effectiveness, improve invulns, even summoning is something I do a lot of (in turn 1).  The problem becomes you have 819 characters eventually all buffing a unit that can never pay it all back. :) 

 

 

 

Some input from a angle a bit different. I plan on using a Possessed Elite Detachement as a kind of breaker for my Nurgle Daemon Army. The Synergies they get from Daemons are insane. I made a list somewhere. That works for most kinds of Daemons.

 

- With the Venom Crawlers there's a bit of that synergy too. I'm not sure if the 'Locus of Slaanesh' in the Contorted Epotime was supposed to work with the Possessed but I gave them the mark of Slaanesh, and would use them with the Epitome + Venom Crawlers to help with Summoning.... and I even used 2 Baledrakes to tie up units.

 

 

I don't know about Disco Lords anymore. They have a lot of different attacks but I think people give them too much credit. You need a good 2-3 Disco Lords to have any impact, as they die a lot easier than people think they do.  So that's why I was thinking of trying the close combat Knight detachment to really put fear into the opponent so they lay off the Rhinos.

 

So I appreciate some of the insights. I never thought the possessed blob was going to be a huge thing, but it doesn't have to be run that way. I'm playing the game I guess more or less with the list I'm concocting now unless someone can give me some different insight. Because I'm using Chaos Knights... as cheap as I can, as choppy as I can, I am not using my Epitome, and (as I said originally) this removes my shooty Black Legion element. 

 

I don't have a ton of confidence in it. If my experiment tonight is against someone numerically superior I see a problem with reducing screens in time with this list. The CC Knights are a very new idea for this particular list and as you can see I have zilch for shooting. 

 

 

 

 

So I appreciate some of the insights. I never thought the possessed blob was going to be a huge thing, but it doesn't have to be run that way. I'm playing the game I guess more or less with the list I'm concocting now unless someone can give me some different insight. Because I'm using Chaos Knights... as cheap as I can, as choppy as I can, I am not using my Epitome, and (as I said originally) this removes my shooty Black Legion element. 

 

I don't have a ton of confidence in it. If my experiment tonight is against someone numerically superior I see a problem with reducing screens in time with this list. Also the

 

[McElMcNinja]

So what does your list look like now?

[Scourged]

I like Possessed. They're fun. I do nine in a rhino with their Greater kin babysitting. They do fine. Nothing impressive, but nothing disappointing. The GP, though, has been an all star for me. A subtle little assassin when he's unleashed.

 

I find the MoP... Eh. He can't keep up easily, so cursed earth always ends up feeling like a waste. But he's pretty nice to have for infernal power. Set the spell, then watch the boys rip and tear. But don't bring him more often than not. A throwaway jetpack lord with the AL relic tends to work better with the group.

 

If you're playing casually competitive stuff with your buddies for fun, they do alright. If you're thinking tournament, ah, well... Maybe go back to the shooty list.

[Prot]

So what does your list look like now?

 

Right now... I'm not really loving the list. The worst part is probably.... the Daemonkin Ritualist units. lol

 

The list is Black Legion:

DP, Wings Tzeentch

Master of Execution (trying him for the first time for fun... instead of the Ex champion. Gotta remember the 6" character intervention.)

 

2 x 10 Cultists

1 x 5 CC  marines

 

2 Rhinos

 

Ritualists Vanguard:

MoP

Dark Apostle (Benediction of Darkness)

 

9 Possessed

2 G.Possessed

 

5 Bikers... 2 Melta.

 

Knights : Iconoclast

Despoiler

Wardog x2. Melta/chain.

 

I've got 82 points left. Not sure what to do really. I'm already missing my Black Legion fire base and I haven't played the game. haha.

[Closet Skeleton]

I won all 7 games at the last Warhammer World Narrative event and took this list to three of them

 

 

 

Battalion

Daemon prince

half damage warlord trait, warptime, intoxicating elixier relic, sword and claw
terminator sorcerer
reroll 1s on psychic tests trait, diabolic strength and delightful agonies
exalted champion

chainsword relic
5 csm
combi-plas, autocannon
5 csm
combi-bolter, heavy bolter
5 csm
combi-bolter, heavy bolter

 

vanguard detachment daemonkin ritualists

dark apostle

fall back and charge trait, soulrender portent

master of possession

field commander trait

rhino
rhino
9 possessed slaanesh banner

7 possessed slaanesh banner
greater possessed of slaanesh

 

vanguard detachment

the contorted epitome

that broken gem I forgot to use even with the swarmlord bearing down, hysterical frenzy and cacaphonic choir
the masque

fiend of slaanesh

fiend of slaanesh

fiend of slaanesh
1750 total

 

3 CP base 7 from detachments -1 for extra daemon relic -1 for extra black legion relic -1 for council of traitors -1 for daemonkin ritualist -1 for field commander=

5 CP

 

Two of those were 1 point victories and I was fighting a not great Ork tank list (3 forgeworld battlewagons, 1 plane with guns 1 plane on tracks and a morkanaut and a bunch of 10 man boy and gretchin squads I shot apart to stop him scoring), a fairly cookie cutter kraken list (2 units of 20 genestealters, swarmlord, 2 carnifexes, old one eye, rippers for stealing objective) and a not great Genestealer cult list (2 tank commanders and a ton of infantry.

 

None of those were heavy shooting lists but the event let you change lists so I had a MSU brigade list to swap it out for if I got an unwinnable match up but didn't need to (I changed in the last game against admech but mostly just for variety since the prizes were based entirely off favorite game votes over wins).

 

The Possessed were bad but they absorbed fire and the characters ended up holding their own despite losing everything they came to buff.

 

I reckon you could drop the masque and add another rhino full of possessed to get a decent non-competitive 2k list.

 

If you're playing casually competitive stuff with your buddies for fun, they do alright. If you're thinking tournament, ah, well... Maybe go back to the shooty list.

The thing that annoys me most about 8th ed is what a fun everyone has a chance game it can be when both players don't squeeze every point for efficiency.

[Trevak Dal]

So Closet Skeleton, would you say the possessed were sort of a dispersed "distraction carnifex" type unit, that through surprising durability and perceived threat ate shots?

[Julius Firefocht]

Hmm Possessed.. I've been tinkering with them in my lists since I heard Chaos Marines are also getting Shock Assault. With their 2 wounds, 5++ save and powerful melee attacks using Shock Assault and the "Vessels of the Neverborn" strategem, they looked promising.

 

Then I realized the sheer amount of support needed to make them work out to their full potential. Add-ons like Greater Possessed for +1 Strength, Sorcerers for the Miasma of Pestilence, Dark Apostles for the Benediction of Darkness, the list goes on. If you want to protect them with a Rhino, that unit of Possessed is limited to 10-man. Which may not bring enough attacks to clear an enemy screen if you rolled poorly or you did not use the Daemonkin Ritualist Specialist Detachment.

 

Compare that to Khorne Berzerkers. A 10-man squad of Berzerkers with Chainaxe/Chainsword and Powerfist on the Champion costs 5 points less than a 10-man squad of Possessed and even unsupported, the Berzerkers will deal much more melee damage than the Possessed. A simple hit reroll aura is all that is required for Berzerkers, but even that is debatable as these guys just generate so much attacks. Point these Khorne madmen at any infantry target and it dies, end of story, no ifs or buts.

 

One can argue that Possessed are tougher than Berzerkers since they have 2 wounds, but I find that to be dependent on your local meta. In my area, everyone packs weapons that deal at least 2 damage. Autocannons, Avenger Gatling Cannons, Disintegrator Cannons, Plasma... the list goes on. So that 2 wound advantage simply does not matter to me, both Possessed and Berzerkers die equally easily to the high AP multi-damage weapons that my local meta flings around regularly.

 

And this is sad because I genuinely like Possessed. I like their fluff, I like their origins as detailed in ADB's "The First Heretic", I like the concept of Marines willingly fusing with Daemons to gain greater power out of desperation. But on the competitive tabletop, they are simply average at best and an inefficient point-sink at worst, unlike the "point-and-click" Berzerkers.

 

Maybe when the CSM codex gets revamped these guys will become a competitive option, but I would not bet on it.

[Closet Skeleton]

Everything in Chaos needs a ton of support. Its the high base cost of possessed that makes it not work. Put similar levels of support into big blobs of troops CSM and that support is more efficient because you can bring enough spare CSM that you don't embarrasingly find your characters with nothing to buff. I had some luck because the characters were nasty enough on their own to not need stuff to buff.

 

So Closet Skeleton, would you say the possessed were sort of a dispersed "distraction carnifex" type unit, that through surprising durability and perceived threat ate shots?

 

They weren't surprisingly durable, I just wasn't fighting 8th ed tournament list levels of firepower.

[McElMcNinja]

I think with Hateful Assault, they have greatly improved. I took a unit of 15 and charged them into 2-10 man Marines. I didn't get overwatched and I had both prescience and VotLW on them. I split my attacks 6/9 and they both wiped each unit to a man. I had 3 attacks per model, so 18/27 attacks, DttFE on 5's, wounding on 2's.

They followed up into a third unit where I lost 2, I lost another 4 in his shooting phase as he had backed out of combat. On the next charge I only used VotLW and rolled a 3 for attacks (4 total with charge) and my DP was in range for re-rolls and I was able to take out that third unit and a psyker. Consolidated into his warlord and another psyker, wrapping them so he couldn't back out again.

The question I am asking myself now is, do I get 5 more for a blob of 20 or 2-10 man units?

[Excessus]

Hmm, a thought...

 

...what about Fabius Bile? He can buff them up with some nice extra stats...and they're more durable against the MWs too.

[40kChrista]

I think with Hateful Assault, they have greatly improved. I took a unit of 15 and charged them into 2-10 man Marines. I didn't get overwatched and I had both prescience and VotLW on them. I split my attacks 6/9 and they both wiped each unit to a man. I had 3 attacks per model, so 18/27 attacks, DttFE on 5's, wounding on 2's.

They followed up into a third unit where I lost 2, I lost another 4 in his shooting phase as he had backed out of combat. On the next charge I only used VotLW and rolled a 3 for attacks (4 total with charge) and my DP was in range for re-rolls and I was able to take out that third unit and a psyker. Consolidated into his warlord and another psyker, wrapping them so he couldn't back out again.

The question I am asking myself now is, do I get 5 more for a blob of 20 or 2-10 man units?

 

I think this as well.  I can't wait to try and make this work with my 20 strong Flawless Host Possessed unit.  I've been working on it for that last 5-6 games, and trying out different support units.  Heralds and Greater Possessed seem to be key for boosting the base Strength and getting the charge off after advancing next to the Herald.  I'm also going with a few regular Demon Princes for the re-roll 1s for the next game.  I've used Syll'Eske the last few games and they're a little expensive even though they're a demon prince and a herald. 

 

Current list is this...

 

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [39 PL, -2CP, 750pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Field Commander [-1CP]

Legion: The Flawless Host

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Soulforged Pack

+ HQ +

 

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL]: Baleflamer, Intoxicating Elixir, Mark of Slaanesh, Ultimate Confidence, Warlord

. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

 

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL]: Baleflamer, Mark of Slaanesh, Master of the Soulforges

. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Venomcrawler [7 PL]: Mark of Slaanesh

 

Venomcrawler [7 PL]: Mark of Slaanesh

 

Venomcrawler [7 PL]: Mark of Slaanesh

 

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 506pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh

+ HQ +

 

Daemon Prince of Chaos [8 PL]: Malefic talon

. Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy

 

Herald of Slaanesh [4 PL]: Hysterical Frenzy

 

Herald of Slaanesh on Steed [4 PL]: Hysterical Frenzy

 

Herald of Slaanesh on Steed [4 PL: Hysterical Frenzy

 

+ Elites +

 

Fiends [6 PL]: 3x Fiend

 

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [37 PL, 733pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: The Flawless Host

+ HQ +

 

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL]: Malefic talon, Prescience, Warp bolter, Wings

. Slaanesh

 

+ Elites +

 

Greater Possessed [4 PL]

. Greater Possessed: Mark of Slaanesh

 

Greater Possessed [4 PL]

. Greater Possessed: Mark of Slaanesh

 

Possessed [20 PL]: Icon of Excess, Mark of Slaanesh, 20x Possessed

 

++ Total: [102 PL, -2CP, 1,989pts] ++

 

 

Sure, it's not going to do well against flyers, but I don't play against a lot of flyers.  It is starting to do well against Custodes, which is my base standard for list writing these days,  despite the lack of Death Hex.

 

*edited for previous list idea

[Closet Skeleton]

I don't see why you need 3 heralds.

 

Epitome aren't too expensive for what they actually do but if you need to babysit 3 venomcrawlers and a possessed blob I see why you might want 2 heralds instead but 3 not so much.

 

Daemon faction Princes can't take warp bolters.

 

Hmm, a thought...

 

...what about Fabius Bile? He can buff them up with some nice extra stats...and they're more durable against the MWs too.

 

The problem with possessed is that you have no army when you bring too many characters to buff them, Fabius is better left out of it.

[Dallas Drake]

Maybe the way to run them is as MSU? 5 Possessed and a Greater Possessed? You could have 4 x 5 Possessed and 2x2 GP for 720 points. That leaves 1280 for the rest of the army? Use the Possessed like foot slogging Wulfen or Custodes where you exploit LOS blocking terrain to keep them alive?

[techsoldaten]

Normally I'm critical of Possessed, but recently saw a clever use for them in a game.

 

Black Legion army, the key units were Abaddon, Bloodmaster, 2 Obliterators, Master of Possession, Greater Possessed and 2x 8 Possessed with MoK, each in a Rhino. There was also a Chaos Knight, facing a Guard gunline.

 

The Guard player fired everything they had into the Knight. The Possessed / GP / MoP disembarked turn 2 while Abaddon, the Bloodmaster and the Obliterators deep struck. The Master of Possession used Cursed Earth and Infernal Power while the Possessed charged. The Obliterators killed a Leman Russ, the Possessed killed a couple infantry squads and consolidated into combat. Along with Abaddon, they went on to destroy most of the rest of the gunline.

 

My impression was Massed Possessed can be effective shock troops so long as they get the right buffs and good distraction units are on the board. It was clear the Knight and Obliterators were the priority targets.

[40kChrista]

I don't see why you need 3 heralds.

 

Epitome aren't too expensive for what they actually do but if you need to babysit 3 venomcrawlers and a possessed blob I see why you might want 2 heralds instead but 3 not so much.

 

Daemon faction Princes can't take warp bolters.

 

I had edited this list since I was playing around with a few ideas before posting it.  Instead of the Helbrute I had a pack of Fiends.  So a Herald for the Warlord & Fiends, a Herald on foot for the Possessed, and a Herlad for the Venoms.  Which, now that I think about it, will change back so I can have the block of Possessed with the fast flanking elements.

 

Thanks for the catch on the Warp Bolter... the pitfalls of list building software, I'll pass it along to them.

[Prot]

Normally I'm critical of Possessed, but recently saw a clever use for them in a game.

 

Black Legion army, the key units were Abaddon, Bloodmaster, 2 Obliterators, Master of Possession, Greater Possessed and 2x 8 Possessed with MoK, each in a Rhino. There was also a Chaos Knight, facing a Guard gunline.

 

The Guard player fired everything they had into the Knight. The Possessed / GP / MoP disembarked turn 2 while Abaddon, the Bloodmaster and the Obliterators deep struck. The Master of Possession used Cursed Earth and Infernal Power while the Possessed charged. The Obliterators killed a Leman Russ, the Possessed killed a couple infantry squads and consolidated into combat. Along with Abaddon, they went on to destroy most of the rest of the gunline.

 

My impression was Massed Possessed can be effective shock troops so long as they get the right buffs and good distraction units are on the board. It was clear the Knight and Obliterators were the priority targets.

 

There are some great thoughts here, and I would like to chime in, but I saw this post, and the list is somewhat similar to what I tried so I would like to use my own experience to add to this:

 

My list was more or less Daemon Prince, MoP, 1 x 9 Possessed, Greater Possessed x2, 2 Rhino's. An 8 man bike squad with three Melta's Yea... bikes.  Two squads of cultists just to round out the Battalion and a small double armed squad of BL marines just to run interference for Possessed...oh and the Master of Executions just because.

 

I had a Knight detachment of a pure CC Knight, with 2 of the Wardog chainsword melta dudes.

 

The idea was light on firepower (just like the post above). I faced an Ork blobish list with the dual Morkanaught detachment. 

 

I lost first turn, but due to some really lucky rolling I did not lose a single squad on turn 1, and my CC Knight was sitting at 20 wounds! It couldn't have set up any better, but reality set in and I was hammered. 

 

I set up the Full Tilt strat perfectly in the right position with an advance roll of 6. I had a follow up with Wardogs. The 8 bikes got to move twice with the assistance of the psychic Daemon Prince (Warp Time). The Rhino's with Possessed and characters, and Troops, follow up nicely. 

 

This is where it all falls apart. I take the bikes in perfect position to clear out screens (as planned). Keep in mind I had no idea who I would play in this game.... so even with Cacaphony I cannot use the bikes to double tap out all of the screening Boyz and Grots, but he's got me at a disadvantage as he far out shoots me.

 

So I smash into the remaining screen with the Knight and the bikers. It doesn't work. In his turn the Knight is hammered with a relic Warboss on a bike (4 damage per hit) and a Morkanaught. The Bikers are erased, and I lost a Wardog, and a Rhino. He simply recycles his largest Boyz unit back into my back lines at full strength, kills all the cultists. 

 

Now my possessed and characters have to kill about 1900 points worth of models. It's obviously not happening and I concede at this point. We did play out another turn mostly so I could see the Possessed in Action with full character support. It doesn't work. The possessed bounce off of the T8 Morkanaught and take a lot of damage in return. Artilery wacks the rest of my vehicles, the Morkanaughts and Warboss clean up the rest. He ties up my last Wardog with Boyz and I would never kill enough to free the Wardogs in time to make a difference.

 

So that's how it went. I intentionally said at the beginning of this thread I felt a hole in the shooting of the list. Every time I made the list I kept plugging my shooty Black Legion elements back in which robbed the list of its core function of being truly CC oriented with characters and Possessed. 

 

I think the mix is inherently dysfunctional in the current meta. For the majority of codexes.... shooting is still king. I think over committing, like I did, is a deal killer. 

[techsoldaten]

 

I think the mix is inherently dysfunctional in the current meta. For the majority of codexes.... shooting is still king. I think over committing, like I did, is a deal killer. 

 

 

Dealkiller is a strong word.

 

Given the current state of the meta, CSMs are in a tough spot.

 

We are a mid-range army with few weapons capable of firing more than 24 inches. A lot of our offense is tied up in melee units with poor armor saves. We have very few vehicles worth taking and our Dreads are expensive for what they do. Characteristically, our psychic powers buff a single unit and our auras are only good for 6 inches. Our chaff units are less points-efficient than those of other armies, so we can't get much going for us on the horde front.

 

It's true to say 8th edition has shifted more towards gunlines. The question is how do we deal with it. I used to play a Black Legion gunline, switched to Bloodletter Bombs, and I'm probably going psychic with TSons next.

 

Relative to the current meta, Chaos is stronger than most other armies in 3 areas:

 

- dishing Mortal Wounds - lots of artifacts / psychic / weapons do this

 

- crashing - charging with big units and dropping tons of attacks

 

- presenting distraction units - in a sense, everything is a distraction unit, and we have some with a lot of wounds

 

The second is what matters most.

 

I really like Bloodletter Bombs but there are too many ways to counter them. What appealed to me about Possessed is turn 2 charges with roughly the same attacks, 2 wounds, the 3+ save and the fact they can't get screened out. It felt like, maybe, this was a new way to delete some stuff off the board.

 

From your description, I can see why running up and smacking things seems like a bad idea. My own analysis is it's essential for armies moving forward. Like, it's essential because we don't have anything better right now.