Rik Lightstar Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I think him working on the original geneseed project is part of the ‘misremembered myth’ angle. He wasn’t old enough to have lived on Terra during the Unfication Wars in Wolfsbane. People in 40k think he might have, but he actually didn’t. According to Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus he probably is old enough to have been around for the initial Primarch and Space Marine projects. From page 38 of Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus "Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl was already old at the birth of the Imperium, over ten thousand years ago. During that span of ages the Tech-Priest has served Mars and the Machine God as a Forge Lord and a Lexico Arcanus, but it is in his role as Magos Biologis that Cawl’s greatest mastery lies." Rik Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 We know he is not particularly old or young during the heresy, he is low rank because he doesn't have ambition for high rank at that time. But he is portrayed as being a genius and willing to break rules to win. That being said,there is no indication of him having worked with the emperor. So that would need some clever explanation to be given. Most likely, it he turns out to have the brains of multiple people in current 40k, he is actually a combination of a few genius' from that time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 We know he is not particularly old or young during the heresy, he is low rank because he doesn't have ambition for high rank at that time. But he is portrayed as being a genius and willing to break rules to win. That being said,there is no indication of him having worked with the emperor. So that would need some clever explanation to be given. Most likely, it he turns out to have the brains of multiple people in current 40k, he is actually a combination of a few genius' from that time. He did basically "eat" his mentor'a entire collection of knowledge so it's possible he literally is a collection of other Magi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 All that is fine if he’s multiple memories absorbed into one person, but he still didn’t work on the Primarch project or the initial geneseed project. That’s not his worst lore, since we already have a theoretical basis for doing that right now in our own time. The issue is those projects weren’t Martian endeavors. It was Terran and Selenar tech. I’m not even extrapolating this, it’s mentioned in the Black Books and stated categorically in Solar War. They’ll have to retcon his appearance in Wolfsbane and have him interact with the traitor from Solar War who was the literally last of the Selanar genewrights. And absorb her memories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I'm learning all kinds of stuff that have no effect on the gameboard but are cool. Good thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 All that is fine if he’s multiple memories absorbed into one person, but he still didn’t work on the Primarch project or the initial geneseed project. That’s not his worst lore, since we already have a theoretical basis for doing that right now in our own time. The issue is those projects weren’t Martian endeavors. It was Terran and Selenar tech. I’m not even extrapolating this, it’s mentioned in the Black Books and stated categorically in Solar War. They’ll have to retcon his appearance in Wolfsbane and have him interact with the traitor from Solar War who was the literally last of the Selanar genewrights. And absorb her memories. I swear there is a scene in emperor of mankind where mr land is watching the emp work and its implied he played a part in the projects too? A lot of people throw around the idea that maybe one of the minds have is lands... what if thats also who was involved with said project? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Land goes to see the Emperor about Angron, well after the project was over and the GC was underway. Also Land was lost in a technovault, Cawl would’ve had to meet him before then. And steal his memories. Also, he goes to see him about the Butcher’s nails, not a matter of genetic engineering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 All that is fine if he’s multiple memories absorbed into one person, but he still didn’t work on the Primarch project or the initial geneseed project. That’s not his worst lore, since we already have a theoretical basis for doing that right now in our own time. The issue is those projects weren’t Martian endeavors. It was Terran and Selenar tech. I’m not even extrapolating this, it’s mentioned in the Black Books and stated categorically in Solar War. They’ll have to retcon his appearance in Wolfsbane and have him interact with the traitor from Solar War who was the literally last of the Selanar genewrights. And absorb her memories.Well thst or with access to the tech on Terra have access to all the Emperor's notes and blueprints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 All that is fine if he’s multiple memories absorbed into one person, but he still didn’t work on the Primarch project or the initial geneseed project. That’s not his worst lore, since we already have a theoretical basis for doing that right now in our own time. The issue is those projects weren’t Martian endeavors. It was Terran and Selenar tech. I’m not even extrapolating this, it’s mentioned in the Black Books and stated categorically in Solar War. They’ll have to retcon his appearance in Wolfsbane and have him interact with the traitor from Solar War who was the literally last of the Selanar genewrights. And absorb her memories.Well thst or with access to the tech on Terra have access to all the Emperor's notes and blueprints.That would be surprising since Corax had to get express permission to enter the vault while the Emperor was still living. It would beggar belief if Cawl was somehow granted an audience with the Emperor so recently interred on the throne, the labs survived the siege, and the Emperor just gives some guy who is only an Adept at this point all of his notes. Especially since Horus’ tactical aims during the Solar War were to secure the Selenar tech. He’d know of the lab and want what’s in there as well, making it a target. We will have to wait and see if they circle back to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Guilliman gave Cawl access but I imagine those vaults weren't easy to see even with permission, much less when the palace was swarming with loyalists. I'd be shocked if Chaos found a way in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 The labs aren’t in the palace. They’re in the tundras of the northern hemisphere. Far away from Tibet/Imperial Palace territory. Regardless, this won’t be addressed anytime soon. For now Cawl has no part in the geneseed or Primarch project, nor the means or ability to access the Emperor’s labs/tech without the Emperor living. It will have to be another retcon to make Cawl and Primaris in anyway connected to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 The labs aren’t in the palace. They’re in the tundras of the northern hemisphere. Far away from Tibet/Imperial Palace territory. Regardless, this won’t be addressed anytime soon. For now Cawl has no part in the geneseed or Primarch project, nor the means or ability to access the Emperor’s labs/tech without the Emperor living. It will have to be another retcon to make Cawl and Primaris in anyway connected to the Emperor. I mean... TECHNICALLY the retcon was wolfsbane, as the admech stuff about him having been involved with the original gene project was from that before he appeared in wolfsbane. I'm sure they'll work something out but the series (both 30k and 40k) is absolutely full of retcons and contradictions anyway so what's one more? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Alright people, stay on topic. This isn't a discussion about Cawl or how old he is or what knowledge he knows. While that is certainly an interesting topic and I encourage you to make a new topic about just that. However, let's please keep this thread on it's original course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5370889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I wonder if GW will kill off any marines with the rubicon primaris. We are told that 2/3rds of marines survive the operation and that that figure is only going to go up as the surgeons become more adept at it. At the same time the first Marine to undergo it was a chapter master, so its plausible that the ones who undergo it first are higher profile marines who will face more risk. If nobody dies to the surgery, or nobody we haven't heard of before, then it loses any kind of risk and is less interesting.I can see marines refusing the operation because of the risk. "I am not afraid of death brother, but I'd rather die to the enemies blade than an apothecaries". I can also see GW using this as an opportunity to clean house a little bit and prune away some marine characters- even if their death is something of an anticlimax. Possibly marine characters who have no models might be ones most likely to get the chop. what do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 In before my chapter dudes shouldn't die but yours should comments. If GW wants to kill named chars with models start with the chapters that have more than 5 going on. Still i dont think they should. It's a :cussty way to write off a character. The IC we see in the books are heroes that survived everything that the galaxy has throw at them, veterans of dozen warzones, the elite of the Adeptus Astartes. Killing them on a operating table for edginess/worf effect is moronic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Would be hilarious if Asmodai finally croaked like the git he is on the operating table instead of meeting some glorious end on the battlefield chamber. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I'd be pretty ironic if some marine hero went in for the operation and came out the other side in a dreadnaught. "Well, we did promise you an upgrade" What's the high gothic for medical malpractise lawsuit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Centurion Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I doubt a important character will die in this process. And probably Dante will be Primaris to, and he will forgot his idea of "im tired to live". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I merged today's "Astartes dying on the Rubicon" with the existing "Crossing the Rubicon Primaris" since it's the same basic issue and we're going to see the exact same comments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I wonder if GW will kill off any marines with the rubicon primaris. We are told that 2/3rds of marines survive the operation and that that figure is only going to go up as the surgeons become more adept at it. At the same time the first Marine to undergo it was a chapter master, so its plausible that the ones who undergo it first are higher profile marines who will face more risk. If nobody dies to the surgery, or nobody we haven't heard of before, then it loses any kind of risk and is less interesting.I can see marines refusing the operation because of the risk. "I am not afraid of death brother, but I'd rather die to the enemies blade than an apothecaries". I can also see GW using this as an opportunity to clean house a little bit and prune away some marine characters- even if their death is something of an anticlimax. Possibly marine characters who have no models might be ones most likely to get the chop. what do you think? No 2/3rds die. The chance of failure as given by Cawl is 61.6% The codex mentions there have been deaths I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357690-crossing-the-rubicon-primaris/page/7/#findComment-5378597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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