Gothical Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I find this a very difficult topic, especially with the second 8th Ed Codex: Space Marines. As a general rule I am happy for people to test out different codices or to count Successors as the actual parent Chapter for rules purposes (otherwise you run into situations like the one below); I am less comfortable with fully-painted Imperial Fists running as Salamanders (or worse, Chaos warbands using Imperial rules!), whilst running Tyranids as Blood Angels would be right out. So, the absurd scenario of some of the successor-versus-parent rules I alluded to above: I am quite interested in various Ultramarine successors, for example a Black Consuls Primaris rebuild, or a variant colour scheme of the Ultramarines that looks stunning (effectively Veteran Intercessors) and I would have to come up with my own background around them. I don't mind not having access to the full relic list since Warlord Traits, Psychic Powers and Stratagems are far more defining in my mind. I don't even mind not having access to the special characters like Marneus Calgar or Tigurius I would however like to use the Guilliman model I have as a centerpiece, in massive games with a true UM retinue. This goes back to the fluff of Guilliman leading the Indomitus Crusade (my army is exclusively Primaris) and the Ultima founding successors serving directly under his field command. He'd be proper Guilliman in Ultramarine regalia, genuine Victrix Guard and so on, within his/their own specific Detachment. According to the rules as they appear to me (and part of a thread in the Official Rules forum), I could give my BLACK CONSULS the Ultramarines successor rules (be it Inheritors or two chosen traits) and pick up Scions of Guilliman thanks to being the UM successors. Running my army as pure ULTRAMARINES gives them Scions of Guilliman. However, if I put the big man himself on the field alongside the successor, everybody forgets they're his Scions thanks to the specific wording, so taking their liege-lord actually makes them worse adherents of their own chapter rules. Heck, even his Ultramarine bodyguards suddenly forget they are his lineage!! The only way around that is to counts-as the whole lot of <whatevers> as ULTRAMARINES so they don't suddenly forget their genetic lineage. But I don't want to do that since it, personally, cheapens the background of the chosen successor and feels a bit "That Guy"-ish Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Meanwhile, how many people can honestly say they know even half of the codex color schemes of any non-marine army they don't play? Be honest, if you don't play nids do you know the difference between jormungandr and gorgon? What about Novok and Sautek? Fiery heart and Valorous heart? Dal'Yth and Vior'la? Poison Tongue and Obsidian rose? Are you even 100% sure these are all real 'chapters' without looking any of them up?Considering they're deeply entranched in old-school cannon, I'm pretty sure a good many players (if not a majority) can easily identify eldar cratworlds (except maybe the new ones that have been added since what, 7th? edition) and ork clans... If they don't play the army? Doubtful. Especially with Orkz. Orkz mostly just look like green and metallics on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERJAK Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Be honest, if you don't play nids do you know the difference between jormungandr and gorgon? What about Novok and Sautek? Dal'Yth and Vior'la?Yes to those three examples. ;) Which means no to the others, which proves my point. Thank you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 And the mere thought of this makes me want to paint Slaaneshi Ultramarine renegades who have no discernable color scheme, just blotches and patterns of clashing colors all over the place, every single one of them completely different with Primarch Roboute Guilliman leading them in Harlequinesque paintjob and details, seduced into a dance by Fulgrim's blade kiss and Proud Him, Captain Cato Sicarius being his right hand Watch this army, try and make me stop playing them as Ultramarines and I hope your eyes bleed Oof. I need this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 And the mere thought of this makes me want to paint Slaaneshi Ultramarine renegades who have no discernable color scheme, just blotches and patterns of clashing colors all over the place, every single one of them completely different with Primarch Roboute Guilliman leading them in Harlequinesque paintjob and details, seduced into a dance by Fulgrim's blade kiss and Proud Him, Captain Cato Sicarius being his right hand Watch this army, try and make me stop playing them as Ultramarines and I hope your eyes bleed Oof. I need this. I'm in agreement. Krieg, you need to do this now. Just "paint shop exploded" Ultramarines needs to be a thing JUST BECAUSE :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Be honest, if you don't play nids do you know the difference between jormungandr and gorgon? What about Novok and Sautek? Dal'Yth and Vior'la?Yes to those three examples. Which means no to the others, which proves my point. Thank you. If your point was that nobody knows everything about every Codex then I guess? Not a very good point in that case though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Honestly, I kinda want to see these modern art ultramarines now too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Anyone who's been around long enough playing 40k will have learned most major subfactions through osmosis -- the major hive fleets, the first founding Chapters and Legions, the five "big" Craftworlds, to name but a few examples. I would hazard a guess that most participants of this discussion, considering that they feel it is worth their time to debate the minutiae of toy soldier color palettes on a fairly niche (relatively speaking) discussion forum, possess a level of interest in 40k beyond that of your average person. I can speak only for myself when I say that I can readily identify the majority of "canonical" published schemes (with the exception of perhaps a dozen of those Space Marine chapters that only appear as a color plate in one or two published locations) despite not playing every army over the course of my wargaming life, but I would consider myself to be a fairly average user of this forum -- of ERJAK's aforementioned examples, there wasn't a one where I didn't know the color schemes and wouldn't be able to tell them apart on the table (besides the Order of the Fiery Heart, but I'm not aware of a color scheme for them prior to the name change to Our Martyred Lady in canon.) This is, of course, just my opinion, but with all that considered the argument that "most people can't recognize the armies, so it doesn't matter" holds much water. I might agree that it doesn't matter on other grounds, but if you care about the universe, chances are you will be able to recognize the standard color schemes for armies -- no faction exists in a vacuum, after all. If they don't play the army? Doubtful. Especially with Orkz. Orkz mostly just look like green and metallics on the table. Sounds to me like you've been playing with rather boring Ork armies then, if all your opponents just paint them up with skin and metallics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Then you get the colour blind and those of us with memory recall issues.... I know most of the main colour schemes but mix them up ie names to schemes.... So (I think I’ve said this before) my stance is tell me who you are playing as and what their special rules are before turn 1... if you don’t then they have no special rules! And if you are mix and matching then each sub faction needs to be identifiable across the table...ie not just change of colour on the shoulder pad rims Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Oof. I need this. Honestly, I kinda want to see these modern art ultramarines now too... I'm in agreement. Krieg, you need to do this now. Just "paint shop exploded" Ultramarines needs to be a thing JUST BECAUSE Mkay, YEEEET! Onto the workbench they go. Don't expect to see them any time soon but I'll make some, just because, indeed OH, GOOD EMPEROR. I need to make the Noise Marine Guitarist an Ultramarine now, don't I? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Then you get the colour blind and those of us with memory recall issues.... I know most of the main colour schemes but mix them up ie names to schemes.... So (I think I’ve said this before) my stance is tell me who you are playing as and what their special rules are before turn 1... if you don’t then they have no special rules! And if you are mix and matching then each sub faction needs to be identifiable across the table...ie not just change of colour on the shoulder pad rims Arguing with disabilities is not very productive here. There are also people who can't use their arms or hands so they can't even assemble their models at all. Does that mean it's okay for them to just put bases on the board? Well yes, but that's not the norm and no basis for any argument. They are the exception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Oof. I need this. Honestly, I kinda want to see these modern art ultramarines now too... I'm in agreement. Krieg, you need to do this now. Just "paint shop exploded" Ultramarines needs to be a thing JUST BECAUSE Mkay, YEEEET! Onto the workbench they go. Don't expect to see them any time soon but I'll make some, just because, indeed OH, GOOD EMPEROR. I need to make the Noise Marine Guitarist an Ultramarine now, don't I? Yes, you do. And he must be standing on top of a Land Raider doing a solo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 OH, GOOD EMPEROR. I need to make the Noise Marine Guitarist an Ultramarine now, don't I? Yes, you do. And he must be standing on top of a Land Raider doing a solo.Make it a LR Redeemer and model it after the MM: FuryRoad bandwagon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephaniah Adriyen Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 OH, GOOD EMPEROR. I need to make the Noise Marine Guitarist an Ultramarine now, don't I? Yes, you do. And he must be standing on top of a Land Raider doing a solo.Make it a LR Redeemer and model it after the MM: FuryRoad bandwagon! Mount an mp3 player and speakers inside and BLAST DUBSTEP THE WHOLE BATTLE! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Well, we've probably reached the end of the line for this particular thread, I think. If I were to summarize the arguments made, I would say:Paint your dudes how you like Be prepared to explain what each part of your army is, and give frequent reminders Recognize that some opponents/events may not accommodate your army (Krieg, you had better keep us in the loop with your Ultramarine "Riot" ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357692-colour-scheme-matters-or-does-it/page/6/#findComment-5380992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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