PDF is out

[Sea-People]

TL,DR: New profiles for bolt rifle variants. Gravis units have +1 wound. We get Shock Assault. Drop Pods are functional again. No points changes.

 

Very minimal changes. I think assault 3 auto rifles warrants thinking about. 3 SIA shots at 24-30" is pretty darn good. Might even give storm bolters a run for their money. The aggressor and Inceptor changes are also great.

 

Will this be enough to compete with all the new toys C:SM gets? I don't think so. Hope we get a similar update in the future.

[Brother Tyler]

Link (Warhammer Community Errata download pdf)

[Mobius0288]

Even with the new additions for space marines, I don't see it as them being ridiculously good. We've already had built in doctrine, and their new toys aren't over powered or anything. You want to deep strike some stuff? Cool, I'll use some of that Auspex Scan. That Invictus Warsuit with Flamer is going to be trouble.

 

I think auto rifles and aggressors are good to take advantage of.

 

I'm most annoyed with the chaplain's litanies of battle and the chapter master re-roll change (lack of for watchmasters).

 

Unsure whether I like or hate the thunder hammer change.... our Intercessors can't take them, but we didn't go up in price. I think what's going to be real dumb is they will errata again (or through chapter approved) and change the price for TH's but not give our intercessors access to them. Note that we have "Intercessors" data sheets while the space marine codex has "intercessor squads."

 

I think the Primaris Apothecary got a minor reduction, which would have been nice for us.

 

The repulsor executioner is pretty cool and I may get one just to get one, but I prefer play deathwatch a bit more infantry focused rather than including tanks. Idk, we'll see.

[Lemondish]

Even with the new additions for space marines, I don't see it as them being ridiculously good. We've already had built in doctrine, and their new toys aren't over powered or anything. You want to deep strike some stuff? Cool, I'll use some of that Auspex Scan. That Invictus Warsuit with Flamer is going to be trouble.

 

I think auto rifles and aggressors are good to take advantage of.

 

I'm most annoyed with the chaplain's litanies of battle and the chapter master re-roll change (lack of for watchmasters).

 

Unsure whether I like or hate the thunder hammer change.... our Intercessors can't take them, but we didn't go up in price. I think what's going to be real dumb is they will errata again (or through chapter approved) and change the price for TH's but not give our intercessors access to them. Note that we have "Intercessors" data sheets while the space marine codex has "intercessor squads."

 

I think the Primaris Apothecary got a minor reduction, which would have been nice for us.

 

The repulsor executioner is pretty cool and I may get one just to get one, but I prefer play deathwatch a bit more infantry focused rather than including tanks. Idk, we'll see.

Auspex scan won't help with drop pods ;)

 

But I'm so glad my favourite mixed Fortis squads of 5 Autos, 4 Aggressors, and 1 Inceptor just became a hell of a lot stronger.

[Irbis]

TL,DR: New profiles for bolt rifle variants. Gravis units have +1 wound. We get Shock Assault. Drop Pods are functional again. No points changes.

 

Lack of points change is really bad, though. SM stuff got point drops, while DW stayed the same. On top of that, they got free doctrines, which is pretty much SIA-light (when DW pays for it), and to make it even funnier (or sadder, depending how you look) SM can now use their AP bonuses with bolter discipline and stalkers, while DW kept the (now completely pointless) SIA bolter no-gos. I like how Codex SM devastator fresh out of scout training is better ace with bolter than DW captains and Watch Masters

 

I am also baffled why they didn't give DW access to eliminators when they seem custom-made for DW (but SW get to take them, apparently sniper rifle makes for a good club or something). No, SIA is not a good excuse, seeing half of DW primaris units don't have access to it, just keep them as is, but it apparently would have been OP in some way. Oh, wait, nope, they don't get superior codex tactics and doctrines, GW would just need to make effort to copy-paste two more words, and we can't have that, eh?

 

Unsure whether I like or hate the thunder hammer change.... our Intercessors can't take them, but we didn't go up in price. I think what's going to be real dumb is they will errata again (or through chapter approved) and change the price for TH's but not give our intercessors access to them. Note that we have "Intercessors" data sheets while the space marine codex has "intercessor squads."

 

I wish DW primaris got access to DW signature melee weapon, power fist with melta. Or at least xenophase blades. I'd gladly trade TH for either. Of course, that would have been flavorful change that would require more than just spending two minutes copy-pasting, so yeah, I bet we won't see that kind of effort

[Mr4Minutes]

Our vehicles don’t benefit from mission tactics either. They get combat doctrines but that’s does nothing for them.

[Rikev]

So now we have units that behave differently or cost different amounts depending what army they are from. GW are making a right mess with all these updates, books and supplements. Reading the other forums, it seems this PDF has created a large number of inconsistencies.

 

Back to planning my force around Apocalypse I guess. 40k is a huge mess.

 

I also wonder if the Demolisher cannon was updated to Heavy D6 for Guard as well? Or is that behaving differently too?

[Finkmilkana]

I also wonder if the Demolisher cannon was updated to Heavy D6 for Guard as well? Or is that behaving differently too?

It’s behaving differently, and it’s kinda the one place where I agree that it has to. D6 demolisher would completely invalidate most other leman Russ variants and most likely be slightly op (8+ slightly better lascannon shots per tank commander...).

 

Our librarians and chaplains are a disgrace though, at least assuming they don’t bring a new codex in the next 1-2 month (which is doubtful).

[Mobius0288]

 

Even with the new additions for space marines, I don't see it as them being ridiculously good. We've already had built in doctrine, and their new toys aren't over powered or anything. You want to deep strike some stuff? Cool, I'll use some of that Auspex Scan. That Invictus Warsuit with Flamer is going to be trouble.

 

I think auto rifles and aggressors are good to take advantage of.

 

I'm most annoyed with the chaplain's litanies of battle and the chapter master re-roll change (lack of for watchmasters).

 

Unsure whether I like or hate the thunder hammer change.... our Intercessors can't take them, but we didn't go up in price. I think what's going to be real dumb is they will errata again (or through chapter approved) and change the price for TH's but not give our intercessors access to them. Note that we have "Intercessors" data sheets while the space marine codex has "intercessor squads."

 

I think the Primaris Apothecary got a minor reduction, which would have been nice for us.

 

The repulsor executioner is pretty cool and I may get one just to get one, but I prefer play deathwatch a bit more infantry focused rather than including tanks. Idk, we'll see.

Auspex scan won't help with drop pods

 

But I'm so glad my favourite mixed Fortis squads of 5 Autos, 4 Aggressors, and 1 Inceptor just became a hell of a lot stronger.

 

 

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong then... So I can't shoot the drop pod before they disembark since I would have to shoot the "unit" that arrived from reinforcements? And I can't shoot the units that come out of the drop pod even though they were technically arriving out of reinforcements?

 

I've never actually had someone use a pod against me yet. But it looks they might be soon...

[Finkmilkana]

You can shoot the pod. It just won’t help much. At best you destroy the pod and the passengers have to emergency disembark (I.e., 1/6 chance each model dies).

[Lemondish]

 

 

Even with the new additions for space marines, I don't see it as them being ridiculously good. We've already had built in doctrine, and their new toys aren't over powered or anything. You want to deep strike some stuff? Cool, I'll use some of that Auspex Scan. That Invictus Warsuit with Flamer is going to be trouble.

 

I think auto rifles and aggressors are good to take advantage of.

 

I'm most annoyed with the chaplain's litanies of battle and the chapter master re-roll change (lack of for watchmasters).

 

Unsure whether I like or hate the thunder hammer change.... our Intercessors can't take them, but we didn't go up in price. I think what's going to be real dumb is they will errata again (or through chapter approved) and change the price for TH's but not give our intercessors access to them. Note that we have "Intercessors" data sheets while the space marine codex has "intercessor squads."

 

I think the Primaris Apothecary got a minor reduction, which would have been nice for us.

 

The repulsor executioner is pretty cool and I may get one just to get one, but I prefer play deathwatch a bit more infantry focused rather than including tanks. Idk, we'll see.

Auspex scan won't help with drop pods

 

But I'm so glad my favourite mixed Fortis squads of 5 Autos, 4 Aggressors, and 1 Inceptor just became a hell of a lot stronger.

 

 

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong then... So I can't shoot the drop pod before they disembark since I would have to shoot the "unit" that arrived from reinforcements? And I can't shoot the units that come out of the drop pod even though they were technically arriving out of reinforcements?

 

I've never actually had someone use a pod against me yet. But it looks they might be soon...

 

 

You only get to shoot the pod because it is the thing that is arriving. 

 

The unit inside is disembarking. 

 

So you get to really only blast at the pod and hope it causes some mortals on the emergency disembark. 

[Vel'Cona]

This seems like something that has been addressed in the BRB FAQ and/or original C: SM FAQ.  Anyone got a reference page/link?

[Mobius0288]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

 

Q2. If the unit arriving as reinforcements has another unit embarked inside it which must disembark after it has been set up (such as units embarked within a Drop Pod, or a Tyrannocyte), can the firing unit shoot at the unit as it disembarks? A: No – though the unit can shoot at the Drop Pod/ Tyrannocyte before the units inside disembark.

 

 

That's too bad... :/

[Syward]

I'm going to dust off & paint up my drop pods for my DW army. :tu:  I've always loved the idea of drop pods, but hated not being able to drop in on turn 1.

[Vel'Cona]

I'm going to dust off & paint up my drop pods for my DW army.   I've always loved the idea of drop pods, but hated not being able to drop in on turn 1.

 

I think this may be a saving grace for DW builds since we still have some of the best elite traditional power armour units, and so can really fill out a DP for maximum killyness.  Being immune to "response" Stratagems/Abilities will help too!

[Syward]

  Being immune to "response" Stratagems/Abilities will help too!

 

Yeah, I like this part the most. I can't wait to give it a try. 

[Prot]

You know I thought I had my DW figured out without the Drop Pods I had painted. I used to terrorize Xenos with them. Then I started using deep striking Primaris and my effectiveness really improved as a result. 

 

Now with Drop Pods you get to basically ignore reserve rules, and have an option for T1. I can't honestly figure out if it's actually worth it for DW.

[Vel'Cona]

You know I thought I had my DW figured out without the Drop Pods I had painted. I used to terrorize Xenos with them. Then I started using deep striking Primaris and my effectiveness really improved as a result. 

 

Now with Drop Pods you get to basically ignore reserve rules, and have an option for T1. I can't honestly figure out if it's actually worth it for DW.

 

Nothing to it but to do it, right? :lol:

[Chris521]

I'm not a huge fan of bringing kill teams with just Veterans, but it does give some flexibility.  1-2 drop pods each with two five man storm bolter teams.  Depending on what you are facing, they could be turn 1 screen screen killers, speed bumps (especially the pods themselves), or just general support/objective grabbing in a later turn.

 

Although a very small factor,  having an extra incentive to bring cheap 5 man squads would make brigade a little easier to bring.

[Syward]

You know I thought I had my DW figured out without the Drop Pods I had painted. I used to terrorize Xenos with them. Then I started using deep striking Primaris and my effectiveness really improved as a result. 

 

Now with Drop Pods you get to basically ignore reserve rules, and have an option for T1. I can't honestly figure out if it's actually worth it for DW.

 

I'm thinking I'll take 3x 5man SB+SS Veterans w/Frag Cannons, a Captain & a Librarian (one w/Beacon) in two pods - drop them in, seize an objective or two, and use the beacon to either pull forward an 'Inter-Blaster' squad or an 'Inter-Gressor' squad and see how much damage I can cause in my 1st shooting phase. 

 

No idea how efficient or effective this will be, but just from a rule of cool standpoint, it'd be glorious! 

[Vel'Cona]

Hmm, does the return of the DP make the FC more viable again?  It seems like maximizing its early-game potential could be just the ticket.

[Syward]

Hmm, does the return of the DP make the FC more viable again?  It seems like maximizing its early-game potential could be just the ticket.

 

That's my thinking, 6 FC potentially within 12" of a high value target on turn # 1 could be devastating. Not to mention they'd likely still be available to shoot on turn 2 (unless they get charged) b/c of their SS screen from the rest of the squad. 

[Mobius0288]

While not everyone's favorite, I would also argue that combi-plasma has some potential as well if you drop a watchmaster with them. You could drop them a bit further back and still do as much damage as a Frag Cannon outside of 8". And it can be slightly cheaper. Or if it's out of range of armor/monsters, you can SIA til your hearts content. The watchmaster for rerolling when firing both profiles, but never overcharging when firing both.

 

Just a flexible, alternative solution.

 

Totally agree with frag spam from a pod, if not taking along with a beefy kill team.

[Syward]

While not everyone's favorite, I would also argue that combi-plasma has some potential as well if you drop a watchmaster with them. You could drop them a bit further back and still do as much damage as a Frag Cannon outside of 8". And it can be slightly cheaper. Or if it's out of range of armor/monsters, you can SIA til your hearts content. The watchmaster for rerolling when firing both profiles, but never overcharging when firing both.

 

Just a flexible, alternative solution.

 

Totally agree with frag spam from a pod, if not taking along with a beefy kill team.

 

Oooh, that's a really good suggestion. 3x 5man Veterans all w/SS + Combi-Plasma is 140pts, vs 138pts for 3x Veterans w/3x SS+SB + 2x FC. They can also spit out 30 plasma shots (if in rapid fire range) vs the 12 FC shots - plus they can fire 30 SIA shots (if in rapid fire range) vs the 36 (rapid fire) SIA SB shots. So a few less SIA shots, but twice as much plasma AND everyone has a SS. all for a total of 6pts more. 

 

I'm going to give this some serious thought. 

[Vel'Cona]

Looks like GW just dropped the hammer on late game DP shenanigans.  I'm glad noone here was planning to utilize this devious but uncharacterful tactic :)