Reivers - Are they worth it now?

[SyNidus]

So with the latest codex, between a points drop, the assault doctrine, and the improved terror troops - are reivers finally worth it?

 

With Assault doctrine on, on a charge a 10 man squad puts out a decent 41 s4 ap-1 attacks.

 

What do you guys reckon?

[mel_danes]

I'm in agreement. People waiting on the

new Primaris CC unit are going to sit a long time, Reivers are the Primaris CC unit.

The turn 3 Assault Doctrine does the damage. It's just a little late in the game.

[Panzer]

I'd definitely say they are worth it for vanilla Marines now. Drop them with Carbines turn 2 to shoot something with AP-1, use Transhuman Physiology on them so the enemy has to do a lot more than he'd like to get rid of them and turn 3 activate the Assault Doctrine and charge with AP-1 attacks and bully his backline/weakened flank.

While the prospect of lots of AP-1 Combat Knife attacks sounds nice it's still a big gamble to get the charge off and they'd only be good from turn 3 on the earliest so I don't think that's the right way to go as vanilla Marine.

[SyNidus]

I'd definitely say they are worth it for vanilla Marines now. Drop them with Carbines turn 2 to shoot something with AP-1, use Transhuman Physiology on them so the enemy has to do a lot more than he'd like to get rid of them and turn 3 activate the Assault Doctrine and charge with AP-1 attacks and bully his backline/weakened flank.

While the prospect of lots of AP-1 Combat Knife attacks sounds nice it's still a big gamble to get the charge off and they'd only be good from turn 3 on the earliest so I don't think that's the right way to go as vanilla Marine.

Actually that is a fair point, I was thinking this goes hand in hand with a concerted push from incursor squads. Which actually raises another questions - Is there any use to reivers when you compare them to Incursors? Incursors do get paired combat blades, and are cheaper.

[Panzer]

If you don't give Reivers Combat Knives it's true, I guess. They'd have the same profile but slightly better melee. No LD debuff aura but they ignore cover and to-hit modifier when shooting.

 

I think the real difference comes down to Infiltration vs Deep Strike. Infiltration is great if you go first but if the enemy goes first it can be devastating. It's a two-edged sword. With Deepstrike you have more control and can react to the situation on the battlefield, but is much slower when it comes to melee.

Also Reivers are much cheaper than Incursors now. So that's that.

 

I'd say a mix of both is a good approach. Incursors for early pressure and Reivers with Carbines to react to your opponent and hit where it hurts the most.

[CCE1981]

It’s too bad that the Reiver Lieutenant doesn’t have the access to Grav-chutes or Grapnel Launchers.

[Son of Sacrifice]

To me, it's too bad they aren't a troop choice. If I could fill a battalion slot with a squad of them it would be a no brainer.

[Nova_Dew]

If you don't give Reivers Combat Knives it's true, I guess. They'd have the same profile but slightly better melee. No LD debuff aura but they ignore cover and to-hit modifier when shooting.

 

I think the real difference comes down to Infiltration vs Deep Strike. Infiltration is great if you go first but if the enemy goes first it can be devastating. It's a two-edged sword. With Deepstrike you have more control and can react to the situation on the battlefield, but is much slower when it comes to melee.

Also Reivers are much cheaper than Incursors now. So that's that.

 

I'd say a mix of both is a good approach. Incursors for early pressure and Reivers with Carbines to react to your opponent and hit where it hurts the most.

 

 

A custom Chapter with Long-range Marksmen and Rapid Assault, Reiver's get a 27" Bolt carbine with no penalties to shoot after an Advance and a 9" Shock grenade, that might improve their use as a mobile support unit to anything assaulting.

 

Alternatively Long-range Marksmen and Hungry for Battle, same 9" Shock grenades and the Incursor's get the 1" extra charge range. Set up the Incursor's to charge, drop in your Reivers 9" away from your target have them throw the shock grenades, hope they hit and then charge with the Incursors.

 

Dependant on Long-range Marksmen affecting grenades of course and if they count as a ranged weapons.

[Panzer]

I honestly don't rate the +3" chapter tactic highly at all. It's such a minor thing on weapons that aren't super short ranged like flamers etc. It's probably one of the last chapter tactics I'd ever take if I were to make a competetive successor.

To me, it's too bad they aren't a troop choice. If I could fill a battalion slot with a squad of them it would be a no brainer.

 

Probably the reason why they aren't. Having no brainer options is a bad thing because it means the other options are worse aka the internal balance isn't right.

[Lord Raven 19]

I will be running them as a distraction unit to annoy/hurt if not dealt with.

[StormLion]

I was just reviewing the Reivers. Did anyone else notice that grapnel launchers let you set up off the board now?

[SkimaskMohawk]

They always did

[StormLion]

They always did

Really? Huh, ok. Shows you how much I've used them I guess.

[Ishagu]

I think they've always been worth it.

 

They are a comparatively durable unit that can arrive anywhere on the board to disrupt and capture objectives or line breaker.

 

I wouldn't overly concern myself with killing power. There is utility in the game beyond removing models.

[The Unseen]

Rievers just need to be able to infiltrate like the rest of the vanguard units.

Then they'd be good

 

I don't understand why GW makes the one vanguard unit that really really wants to infiltrate the only one who can't.

 

But having to deep strike a melee unit that then has a normal move of 6" afterwards will forever relegate them to a distraction unit you expect to die.

 

Least they're slightly cheaper now.

[Isual]

I think the second stratagem close combat reivers could realy profit from would be Gene Wrought Might. With the number of attacks they are able to push out there will be probably several sixes among the hit rolls.

[Sonoftherubric21]

White Scars are going to love using Reivers. 

 

It feels like they have the best tactic for it, sling-shot a unit across the board pretty quick + Assault doctrine + Devastating charge means that these STR 4 attacks are tearing chunks out of tanks turn 3 and beyond. 

[Sea-People]

White Scars are going to love using Reivers. 

 

It feels like they have the best tactic for it, sling-shot a unit across the board pretty quick + Assault doctrine + Devastating charge means that these STR 4 attacks are tearing chunks out of tanks turn 3 and beyond. 

 

Seconded. Scars have lots of ways to add +1 to charge range as well. So dropping in a big unit of Reivers turn 3 could potentially be quite nasty.

[MeltaRange]

I'm struggling to see a place for Reivers given all the other options we have available to spend points on.

[Mandragola]

I don’t really see a place for them. They just don’t do anything all that special. When you’ve got incursors who can shoot and fight better than carbine reivers. Melee reivers are ok against some opponents but ultimately S4 attacks, even with ap-1 from t3 onwards, are very readily available for marines. Why bother with that when intercessors could be doing the same thing with their assault bolt rifles from 24” away? Things would be different if reivers could bring a thunder hammer, or indeed anything to damage hard targets, but they can’t.

 

The lieutenant is an interesting one. On one hand it’s awful that he can’t have any useful weapons, a grav chute or grapnel (especially when the incursor lieutenant has a grav chute he shouldn’t). On the other, he’s cheap, he gives out rerolls and he has access to Phobos warlord traits, scaring things and so on. An Ultramarine one can even take the soldier’s blade relic and conceivably kill stuff. So there’s a reasonable argument for bringing him I think.

[Ishagu]

Arriving from reserves is different to deploying outside of the regular zone.

 

Reivers have won me games at high levels of play. They don't do it by destroying lots of units but by getting to key positions and causing some disruption.

[Kriegsmacht]

I haven't played 40k but in the game system I play an outflanking unit that comes in at the right time can really mess up an opponents plans introducing a possible problem. Sounds like these Reivers would do the same.

[Trevak Dal]

Imagine if their knives were cawl pattern power daggers (so no loss in strength, +1 attack and ap-2 base). Then they might stand out as Loyalist Boo Boys. As it is, they present a fine source of bits for Night Lords players, and have cool mp5k looking guns.

 

If you are going only nuMarines, they provide you with an option for a deep strike capable unit in a sizable squad you can't get anywhere else. (The purple prose heavy weapons drop troopers and sniper/meltaRifle guys only come in squad sizes of three to my knowledge)

 

The Primaris Crisis suits can do this as well and with more wounds, but larger foot print potentially.

[Blindhamster]

im really hoping blood angels will get a way to give them -1 ap on the daggers too at some point, because a unit of 5 models getting 21 attacks that wound MEQ on 3s and GEQ on 2s with -1 AP feels like a half decent cc unit tbh.

[The Angel]

Also, don't forget about the Shock Grenades. Stopping potentially deadly overwatches cannot be overlooked.