Reivers - Are they worth it now?

[CaptainMarsh]

 

 

Them being in the elite slot is not an issue, really. You have so many elite slots per detachment, you shouldn't ever run out on them unless you bring a list with nothing but a ton of tiny sized elite slot units.

The issue is more so your available points in a game and how much you are allocating to the elite slots, especially post-codex. It is hard to justify Reivers when there are so many better elite choices out there. Why spend the points and a slot when dramatically better options exist? If they were Fast Attack choices you could view them as a Primaris Assault Squad. 

 

 

But that's a general issue that shows that they are not quite worth it but it has nothing to do with them being Elite or not. They had the same issue if they were Fast Attack or Heavy Support. Likely even as Troops choice.

 

As a Troops choice they'd have a not terrible argument as being the second best Troops unit that the Codex has, and would certainly be in discussion. As a Fast Attack, someone wanting more in the enemy's face at least has a debate to be had. Still might not be taken. Heavy Support and Elite? You flip past that datasheet after the first time you look at it because it is likely *flanked* by superior options that take up the same position in a detachment.

 

Honestly, a single piece of wargear would make Reivers instantly viable and better. Auxillary Grenade Launcher.

[Ishagu]

Do people run out of elite slots in their armies? I never have.

[CCE1981]

Do people run out of elite slots in their armies? I never have.

I would if Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts weren’t Heavy Support.

[Dracos]

Reivers have to fight with Aggressors for Elite slots in a Battalion. I'm going to have to add a Vanguard to get both into the army list. 

 

I don't know why or how they did it so quickly but the Elite selections are already bloated :(

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I never run out of slots for elites and wish Chaplains fell under this category .

[Lemondish]

Reivers have to fight with Aggressors for Elite slots in a Battalion. I'm going to have to add a Vanguard to get both into the army list. 

 

I don't know why or how they did it so quickly but the Elite selections are already bloated

 

Wait, I thought Battalions had like 6 available Elite slots.

[Ishagu]

Yeah it does, which is why I'm so surprised to hear people might not have enough slots?

[Gothical]

I think Reivers have got a lot better with the new Codex.

 

Shock Grenades are just as tasty as they were before, perhaps even more so now that the Invictor Warsuit will be running amok in enemy lines giving you a powerful unit that will greatly benefit from the -1 To Hit against counter-attacking guys.

 

Shock Assault has also made them very nice with 4 attacks each, which combined with the Assault doctrine bumps them up to AP-1 which is helpful.

 

However, I think everyone is missing a trick with the Assault Doctrine - remember that it improves their Pistols AP too, giving you a unit that can pop up anywhere with AP-2 shots. Since they also benefit from the melee portion of the doctrine in the same turn, they can carve through even armoured infantry fairly easily if you can close the distance.

 

They can be surprisingly killy, act as a screen for Inceptors, support Invictors or just be a general distraction/harassment/objective-grabbing Linebreaker unit. That is a lot of flexibility and why I do value them despite the Elite slot competition.

 

They would be a lot better if the Phobos Lieutenant kept the Grav-Chute when becoming a Reiver (I know this has been done because of the models, the Incursor-type one has a chute in Shadowspear, the Reiver one does not), or at least gained a Grapnel Launcher - that would mean that one unit and one Lieutenant could maximise Terror Troops via Combat Squad, and getting the re-roll 1s to Wound is handy on that volume of shots/attacks. As it is he can't get into position to support his troops.

[Dracos]

 

Reivers have to fight with Aggressors for Elite slots in a Battalion. I'm going to have to add a Vanguard to get both into the army list. 

 

I don't know why or how they did it so quickly but the Elite selections are already bloated :(

 

 

Wait, I thought Battalions had like 6 available Elite slots.

*headslap*

 

I’m use to the older editions which maxed out at 3 duh. I’d still rather find a synergetic HQ and run Vanguard detachment now that we can’t optimize with soup .... and it gives me “excuse” to pick up the Grav-Lt sooner ;)

[zero88]

Has anyone playtested white Scars with a full reiver squad and using temporal corridor? The threat range is ridiculous

[Maxamato]

Has anyone playtested white Scars with a full reiver squad and using temporal corridor? The threat range is ridiculous

I will do today!

[Ishagu]

That sounds plenty fun. I will test it myself.

[MeltaRange]

Has anyone playtested white Scars with a full reiver squad and using temporal corridor? The threat range is ridiculous

Yes. But then I questioned why I was going to all that trouble when bikes exist

[Maxamato]

Which troubles?

[MeltaRange]

You need to have things line up for this to happen.  You could have poor advance rolls.  You could not get the spell off.  You need to have the librarian within 3" during the psychic phase.

 

Everything working out perfectly, you have a whopping 24" move.  However, I could get a guaranteed 20" move from Bikers by doing nothing.  24" with Ride the Winds.  A unit of 8 Bikes w/ Chainswords is comparable points cost to 10 Reivers and in my opinion vastly superior.
 

If Reivers could throw a shock grenade after advancing, then I would probably rate them a bit higher and it would make this tactic pretty solid.  In sort of the theme of this thread, you can make Reivers work but there's frankly a better option out there for every role they perform.

[Mandragola]

That super-fast move and charge is still pretty cool though. Reivers are 5ppm cheaper than bikers, have 4 attacks each on the charge instead of 2, haven't got combi-bolters... and are basically just completely different. 10 pistol/ccw reivers do only cost 160 points and they get 41 attacks on the charge. That's not nothing. Those 10 guys could be all over the enemy, tying up a load of gunline units after charging one thing and consolidating into the rest. The impact on the game could be massive.

 

This can also be done after deep striking. A big squad can easily place one guy within 3" of a librarian. A Chaplain giving a bonus to speed could also help.

 

It's just such a shame that Reivers are so harmless against any kind of hard target. They've become pretty nasty for hordes. In fact they're now so cheap that running them as effectively a horde unit themselves might be more or less viable.

[zero88]

 

Has anyone playtested white Scars with a full reiver squad and using temporal corridor? The threat range is ridiculous

Yes. But then I questioned why I was going to all that trouble when bikes exist

Because bikes are about 30% or more expensive, have fewer attacks, and suck at fighting in terrain. 10 Reivers with Grapnel Launchers can assault just about as far, either have more attacks in melee or almost similar firepower depending on knives or carbines, and most importantly aren't useless fighting in terrain.

[Dracos]

41 AP-1 S4 attacks on the charge (and who wouldn't be adding a character for auras) after having taken 20 AP-1 S4 heavy bolt pistol shots 

 

Build them as part of a deep striking backfield battlegroup with say a unit of Plasma-ceptors and you can own your opponents backfield.

[Captain Idaho]

The very fact there is a thread on this suggests it isn't obvious how useful Reivers are, which is their big weakness and strength.

 

After mulling them over, they are a dangerous unit that can interfere with backfield play and thus must be dealt with or neutralised, taking pressure off the front line troops.

 

They lack real killing power, specifically after being reduced in numbers, simply because they are operating like a horde unit in their killing potential yet are expensive and not particularly hard to kill for that cost. It's when they're reduced in numbers, down to 4 models or less, they lose much of their potential to the point of uselessness.

 

However, Strategum support will make this unit horrific! Transhuman Physiology and Gene-wrought Might will make a charge from them painful and keep them relevant.

 

I do rate Reivers for an alternative Drop Pod attacking unit.

 

As front line assault forces not so much but that's not their role.

[Mandragola]

Ok so there do seem to be some uses for reivers now.

 

A squad of 5 guys with carbines and grav chutes is a useful objective-taker. It’s also a cheap way to fill a brigade slot or unlock a relic. Arriving on turn 2 they’ll have 10 shots at ap-1, which is a threat to things like mortar teams. This unit might work particularly well with plasma inceptors, who the reivers will screen. They’re still mean enough to bully most back line units, with 17 attacks on the charge (since the sergeant can have a knife – woo).

 

Bare bones 16 point guys seem like they might not be bad, either with carbines or knives, essentially as a horde unit. You’re looking at 8 points per T4 3+ save wound and a unit that can hold its own really quite well in shooting and melee. To me they do mostly just look like slightly worse intercessors though. I think that if I was going for numbers then I'd want them to be troops instead.

 

White scars have advance and charge schenanigans, making reivers way more interesting. They can just sprint over the board with a phobos librarian casting temporal corridor. The same librarian can give you some deployment schenanigans for them with princeps of deceit, so you can line them up right on the front line if you’re going first. Note that you can’t use temporal corridor on a unit after it deep strikes, just as you can’t use warp time etc on them.

 

It remains to be seen what other benefits they might get. Raven Guard might well have some useful tricks, for example.

[Dracos]

I’m still confused why they’re an Elite choice instead of Fast Attack or even Troop .... but nobody asked me, so I’m blaming Reece ;)

 

I will say for their points they are worth more to me than Infiltrators who I want to use badly but Primaris points are at a premium and I like getting as much infantry on the board as possible.

 

They’re part of my T2 attack team that’s designed to deal with objectives and units the firepower Intercessors and Aggressors can’t get to,

[Mandragola]

Yeah I think they should be fast attack, or possibly troops. Incursors and infiltrators both seem more elite than reivers.

 

Or actually maybe it's just that incursors and infiltrators have abilities that work. Reivers have stupid grenades they'll never get to throw and morale schenanigans that most armies ignore.

[Schlitzaf]

Here my comparison for Reivars with Packs; 90 points get basic power sword wielding and aux armed Intercessor squad, and 5 points more than gets your an Incursor Squad. Who fills the Reivar role of a bully unit. But here comes the biggest weakness, we are comparing Reivers to a Troop Choice. While the reverse is generally recognized as a good thing (a troop comparable to an elite), an elite comparable to a troop is the mark of “non-troop troop choice syndrome”. Other units fall under this banner;

Assault, Raptor and NonElite Jump Squads

IG Veterans

Flayed Ones

 

And those are just the most notable and more standout examples. I think does that make those units bad? No. I think it just means the opposite, their acceptable or good. But they are in a slot that you want to be “exceptional” or “awe inspiring”. The “acceptable” level capability of a unit is only truly acceptable in a troop slotted choice.

 

Reivars do mince chaff and they aren’t expensive but by and large they do nothing beside be warm bodies on the battlefield that achieves acceptable but not stellar results.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes as assault troops they are distinctly average. I think they have a role in all Primaris armies mind, but if you have Vanguard Veterans or even Bikers with Chainswords there's precious little reason for them.

 

But I've seen Tactical Doctrine bolters dropping in and it hits like a ton of bricks, so as a distraction or pressure unit alongside other threats in a Primaris force they aren't bad.

[Mandragola]

Deep strike is really very different to concealed positions though. The comparison with incursors isn’t really correct because one is an early game unit that can tie things up and screen. The other is a mid game unit that will harass the enemy back line and try to steal objectives.

 

Otherwise yes, the comparison with all those “not quite elite enough” units is fair. It’s just that a not very elite 90 point choice can potentially win you games by dropping in on an objective, clearing the chaff and then being hard to get rid of.