New Codex and Supplement - First Impressions

[MeltaRange]

Hi All.

Here is my take on the White Scars most improved units in the new Codex, and just some random thoughts and musings on them in general.

 

<<Bikes>>

Well, obviously. Bikers with chainswords are damn good now, considering Shock Assault grants an additional attack on the charge and they can now Advance and Charge. (that's a 20" move before charging, 22" for Scout Bikes) They have also gained a metric f*** ton of complementary abilities that make them incredibly flexible and hard to shift. Skilled Riders is exactly what this unit needed IMO, but things like Encirclement, Fierce Rivalries, Strike to the Heart, Feinting Withdrawal, Ride Hard Ride Fast, Storm-Wreathed, Ride the Winds, Plume of the Plainsrunner, Hunter's Eye are all going to be options worth considering.

 

For 200 points, you can have a unit of 8 with chainswords and a Thunder Hammer sergeant. (which you can make Master Crafted...) As I mentioned elsewhere, that unit is not too expensive to either throw it away in a Turn 1 suicide charge, or to keep it in reserves (using Encirclement) an extra turn so it can show up at full strength when the Assault Doctrine is active. Or anything in between. Other solid looking load-outs include Triple Melta, which benefit nicely from the Chapter Trait. Play-testing is necessary.

 

Overall though, I would argue that the best "change" to Bikes is not a change to the unit at all, but changes to the rest of the army's playstyle and abilities that allow Bikes to be more properly supported. Things like Drop Pods coming in on Turn 1. Things like Lightning Debarkation and the Impulsor's "Assault Vehicle" rule, or Wind Swift to move buffing characters into position. Even things such as Temporal Corridor on Reivers (max move 24" and can still charge) for a 2 pronged alpha strike alongside the bikes. I'm enjoying thinking about all the potential combinations and possibilities. An Impulsor moves 14", plus the Assault Vehicle rule means that Kor'Sarro Khan can jump up the field 24-29" to bring his formidable buff to a charging Biker unit Turn 1. Maybe he can bring his Veteran Intercessor buddies with Thunder Hammer along.

 

<<Aggressors>>

Now with 4 attacks (5 for Sergeant) on the charge thanks to Shock Assault, effectively doubling their attacks from the previous codex, being able to Advance, Shoot, and Charge is even better. There are also several synergies with White Scars stratagems, psychic powers, and relics. Things like Feinting Withdrawal, Ride the Winds, and Hunter's Eye are solid choices. Also a decent candidate for the Encirclement stratagem since Aggressors seem to be targeted early and often. Not to mention, T5 and 3W each is a significant buff.

 

<<Intercessors w Auto Bolt Rifles>>

As with Aggressors, here we have a unit that has the ability to Advance, Shoot, and Charge, allowing it to take full advantage of all it's strengths and eek out value from it's stat line and equipment. In the instance where this unit can shoot and charge, it's making a full 6 Str4 attacks for each model in the unit. It's speed makes being in range for things like Bolt Storm and Catechism of Fire easier to work with since they require particular positioning. Good candidate for being put in a Repulsor vs some of the other options like Hellblasters or Aggressors that make it too big of a target and point sink. Also combines well with the White Scars Banner of the Eagle and/or Kor'sorro Khan to make them even better Blood Angels in combat. All in all, a nice rapid response type unit that is generally flexible and benefits from a variety of buffs.

 

Also: Veteran Sergeants with Master Crafted Thunder Hammers doing 5 attacks on the Charge, 6 with Might of Heroes.

 

One final thing to mention is that regular Bolt Rifle Intercessors are also must include, even though they can't Advance and shoot. We still want something to be able to pop Rapid Fire - but that's only 1 unit per turn, so Auto Bolt Rifles work well in conjunction with their more traditionally-armed brothers.

 

<<Repulsor>>

There are definitely more tricks to keep your Repulsors alive now. Given that it has FLY, hiding it behind terrain only to pop out and shoot it's impressive amount of guns has always been a tactic, and it's typically been a good target for Might of Heroes. But now it's even better with the introduction of things like Hunter's Fusillade, Ride Hard Ride Fast, and even Wind-Swift. For the cost of a 1 CP and the presence of a Librarian, you can have a T9 beast rocking -2 to be hit in the Shooting Phase. With another Psychic Power and/or a Stratagem or a Litany, it can even shrug mortal wounds. This certainly helps it's potential as a transport, particular when skipping all the upgrades.

 

<<Relic Contemptor Dreadnought>>

Seems a bit specific...but I do think this unit is quite good for White Scars. It's got a few things going for it: 1) it's Move of 9" never is reduced, so it's very fast when you account for the ability to Advance and Charge (and Shoot with Hunter's Fusillade...works great with the 2 Heavy Flamer load-out! PS you can even Fall Back and shoot your double Heavy Flamer if you want for 1CP) 2) It's even more durable now that Duty Eternal exists, and 3) Forgeworld has come out with a gorgeous model for it! All in all, I think this is a solid choice as it's a tough as nails unit that can keep up with the rest of your army.

 

<<Inceptors (Assault Bolter)>>

Being able to Advance or Fall Back and still Shoot AND Charge is strong, particularly now that Inceptors (like Aggressors) have essentially doubled their attacks on the charge. Each Inceptor is capable of dealing up to 10 attacks in that scenario, plus a chance at a mortal wound. The new Hammer of Wrath stratagem is also applicable here, as is the Tactical Doctrine that make their shooting on Turn 2 (when they likely arrive) go to a nasty -2 AP. Note that Inceptors do have Move 10, which means they are eligible to consolidate d6+6" with Strike to the Heart. This can be a big deal when trying to 3 point trap something. (and yeah, you can Fall Back, Shoot, and Charge for free next turn while your opponent flips the table...)

 

*The Plasma version is also very good and shares many of the same advantages, but I'm liking the Bolter version much more due to it's interaction with Tactical Doctrine and it's reduced cost per model.

 

<<Librarians>>

The Stormspeaking discipline is very strong and actually rather cheap to cast. With the relic that adds +1, this makes psychic powers arguably reliable enough to base a strategy around. The obvious strategy here is clearly Storm-Wreathed, but there are several others that apply nicely as well. Spirits of Chogoris and Blasting Gale are nice ways to debuff a powerful unit while you remove the chaff. Ride the Wind is turning your Bikers into Red Grief Reavers. Lightning Call and Eye of the Storm are actually quite good as far as damage dealing spells go. Something I noticed in the new Codex is the the Tome of Malcador allows the bearer to know a power from any discipline they "have access to" which I read as being able to mix. One thing I'm looking forward to trying out is if I can make a "sniper" Conclave work. Perhaps a Phobos Librarian + Librarian with Jump Pack, who are rocking some combination of Mind Raid, Psychic Scourge, Tenebrous Curse, and Eye of the Storm, which all allow you to target particular units for mortal wounds. Also, Librarians in a drop pod sounds intriguing as well, since they aren't wasting a turn in reserve and benefit from CHARACTER rules behind the Drop Pod.

 

Ok that's all I got for now!  Congrats if you made it through this...let me know if you have any other ideas I missed!

 

[Johanhgg]

Interesting write-up! Great work! I need to read this again i think. Your thoughts will be handy for my preparations for my first battle with my scars with the new Codex, which will happen in two weeks.

[Johanhgg]

I did just note that inceptors also have T5 3 W. Thats really appreciated. I think inceptors definatly has a place as well, lots of shooting, charge, maybe some MW, fallback, shoot and charge again. A good unit.

[L30n1d4s]

Very interesting and some great points here.... one question how do you get a Repulsor to -2 to hit against enemy shooting (I get the T9, from Might of Heroes).

Edited August 21, 2019 by L30n1d4s

[MeltaRange]

Very interesting and some great points here.... o e question how do you get a Repulsor to -2 to hit against enemy shooting (I get the T9, from Might of Heroes).

If you Advance, pop "Ride Hard Ride Fast" and also use Auto-Launchers

[Felix Antipodes]

From a lore point of view I was rather disappointed with the new WS supplement. I didn't think it provided as deep an I sight into the current state of the Chapter and its leaders compared to the UM one.

 

Good to see that bikers are looking good (from a quick glance) considering I half expected them to be downplayed before the inevitable Primaris flying ones.

[Rommel44]

Overall I am happy with the Codex Supplement as we get some great Stratagems to go with some cool relics. Am disappointed that we don't have the option for more HQ options such as a Stormseer or Chaplain on a Bike, but I'm not surprised that they or Veteran Bike Squads didnt make it this edition. As for the units:

 

* Khan on a Bike is still a positive and he is a solid model with good equipment for a mere 20x5 points base.

 

* Relic Contemptor Dreadnoughts in a Drop Pod w/Dual Hvy. Flames has a ton of potential to be downright nasty imo. Plus the model is gorgeous as well.

 

* Bikes are looking great atm. Still some debate on how people plan to field their Bike Squads in terms of weaponry but I see potential in both the standard 8x man Squads equipped for CC, as well as the Tri-Melta with the Attack Bike included as it can't be singled out due to being apart of the Squad.

 

* Typhoon Land Speeders can be a solid choice for a Anti-Tank unit given the fact they benefit from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1. Still debating this one personally in terms of weapon loadouts, but their point decrease and fitting the White Scars in terms of fluff is a good start. Potential Dark Horse unit.

 

* Aggresors are a popular unit across the board for all Space Marine Chapters atm. Not much to add as everyone at this point knows their potential.

 

* Incursors are a great choice for WS players as they have their Paired Combat Blades and can generate an extra hit with an unmodified roll of a 6. Plus they are cheaper compared to the Infiltrators and they are an option if you dont want to spend the CP to make a Veteran Intercessor Squad. Personally I like the idea of Infiltrating them with a Stormseer in Phobos Armor and let them run wild.

 

* 6x man Intercessor Squads in Impulsors w/Auto Bolt Rifles is something I plan to test out asap. Having a fairly cheap (in terms of Primaris) mobile unit that can provide Fire-Support for our Bike Squads is always a good thing. But I do like the idea of placing Kor'sarro Khan and a unit of 9x Veteran Intercessors in a Repulsor as well.

 

* Scout Bikes are a very good option for White Scars. Cheaper than standard Bike Squads, they can still dish out a ton of Dakka with the Bolters and Shotguns and still hit hard in CC with the Shock Assault and Devestating Charge.

 

* Sternguard I would argue would be a solid choice for White Scars, especially in a Drop Pod. Having a unit of 5x to 10x coming in and unloading a bunch of Combi-Weapon and Grav-Cannons w/Grav-Amps can provide a great distraction until our Bike Units can get close.

 

Just a quick glance on the units that stood out for me when browsing the Codex and the WS Supplement.

[Armament81]

@MeltaRange Great write up! When I saw your post about the bikes with all chain-swords doing encircle, I had to give it a go, and by the emperor is it solid.  My opponent didn't want to advance out because of its threat!  I also used a couple other things that I think are going to be great, its so nice to have so many good options again.

 

So I proxied in two Invictor Battle suits to try them out in the game too, and man are they awesome.  Start mid field with the flamers, and various WS bonuses you are in their lines and pressuring them from the outset!  I backed them up with two Ironclad Dreads that are super budget now! (121 for stock + assault launchers).  While they are slower, they have no reason to not always advance till they hit the enemy line, and boy will they crash hard into the line.

Another winner of the list was bring two Whirlwinds for some line of site ignoring shooting.  Solid volleys on the first turn with the Devastation Doctrine, and since we have so much bolter shooting with out bikes, I stuck to Vengeance Launchers for Auto-cannon shots.  Add in the 1 pt Strat for shooting a second time with 1, I was able to drop some chaff for my first turn charges with the Invictors.

In the long run what I think is so cool that we can now achieve is waves of aggression thanks you our speed.  Marines have never felt so much like Marines to me till this book, and then add in all the cool WS stuff and man am I loving the state of things atm.

For those interested here is the list I ran:
White Scars Battalion:
HQ - Captain on Bike (Power fist, Storm Shield, Shield Eternal, Warlord with Tempered by Wisdom for Imperium's Sword and Master of Snares)
HQ - Librarian on Bike (Artificer Armor, Storm Bolter, Might of Heros, Null Zone)
HQ - Librarian in Phobos Armor (Ride the Winds, Storm Wreathed)
Troops - 3 Units of 5 Intercessors with Chain Swords and Aux Launchers
Heavy - 2 Whirlwinds with Vengeance Launchers

White Scars Vanguard:
HQ - Chaplain with Jump Pack (Plasma Pistol, Exhortation of Rage)
Elite - 2 Invictor Warsuits with Flamers
Elite - 2 Base Ironclad Dreads with Assualt Launchers

White Scars Outrider:
HQ - Lieutenant with Jump Pack (Master Crafted Bolter, Power Axe)
Fast - 3 Attack Bikes with Multi-Melta
Fast - 9 Scout Bikes with Storm Bolter on sgt
Fast - 8 Bikers with Chainswords, and Power Axe on Sgt

So 2 cp to get the 2nd relic, and 2nd warlord trait on the warlord, then used a CP to outflank the biker squad, and put the Chappy and Lt in deep strike to join them when they come in.
Put the Invictors as close as I could but still be safe if I didn't get first turn. Then put everything else on the line, 2 Intercessors units and the Whirlwinds are about the only thing that stayed back for objectives, since so much pressure is applied from turn one, most people have to play on the back foot.  Also, the Phobos Libby is great with the WS discipline as he can be sitting mid field from turn one buffing units as they zoom bye into combat, and the Invictors help make sure he is mostly safe from round 1 shooting.

[Gundric]

Overall I am happy with the Codex Supplement as we get some great Stratagems to go with some cool relics. Am disappointed that we don't have the option for more HQ options such as a Stormseer or Chaplain on a Bike, but I'm not surprised that they or Veteran Bike Squads didnt make it this edition. As for the units:

 

* Khan on a Bike is still a positive and he is a solid model with good equipment for a mere 20x5 points base.

 

* Relic Contemptor Dreadnoughts in a Drop Pod w/Dual Hvy. Flames has a ton of potential to be downright nasty imo. Plus the model is gorgeous as well.

 

* Bikes are looking great atm. Still some debate on how people plan to field their Bike Squads in terms of weaponry but I see potential in both the standard 8x man Squads equipped for CC, as well as the Tri-Melta with the Attack Bike included as it can't be singled out due to being apart of the Squad.

 

* Typhoon Land Speeders can be a solid choice for a Anti-Tank unit given the fact they benefit from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1. Still debating this one personally in terms of weapon loadouts, but their point decrease and fitting the White Scars in terms of fluff is a good start. Potential Dark Horse unit.

 

* Aggresors are a popular unit across the board for all Space Marine Chapters atm. Not much to add as everyone at this point knows their potential.

 

* Incursors are a great choice for WS players as they have their Paired Combat Blades and can generate an extra hit with an unmodified roll of a 6. Plus they are cheaper compared to the Infiltrators and they are an option if you dont want to spend the CP to make a Veteran Intercessor Squad. Personally I like the idea of Infiltrating them with a Stormseer in Phobos Armor and let them run wild.

 

* 6x man Intercessor Squads in Impulsors w/Auto Bolt Rifles is something I plan to test out asap. Having a fairly cheap (in terms of Primaris) mobile unit that can provide Fire-Support for our Bike Squads is always a good thing. But I do like the idea of placing Kor'sarro Khan and a unit of 9x Veteran Intercessors in a Repulsor as well.

 

* Scout Bikes are a very good option for White Scars. Cheaper than standard Bike Squads, they can still dish out a ton of Dakka with the Bolters and Shotguns and still hit hard in CC with the Shock Assault and Devestating Charge.

 

* Sternguard I would argue would be a solid choice for White Scars, especially in a Drop Pod. Having a unit of 5x to 10x coming in and unloading a bunch of Combi-Weapon and Grav-Cannons w/Grav-Amps can provide a great distraction until our Bike Units can get close.

 

Just a quick glance on the units that stood out for me when browsing the Codex and the WS Supplement.

I'm glad I wasnt the only one considering the land speeders. A squadron of 3 landspeeder typhoons slapped with 'big guns never tire' and 'skilled riders' stratagems might make them worthwhile, they get to keep the 20" move, have a 4++ and hit on 3's. Costly in CP but may be worth it for the first turn on devastator doctrine. It this or 2 lascannon toting stormtalon gunships covering my mechanised WS I'm planning.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Gundric

[Rommel44]

 

 

Overall I am happy with the Codex Supplement as we get some great Stratagems to go with some cool relics. Am disappointed that we don't have the option for more HQ options such as a Stormseer or Chaplain on a Bike, but I'm not surprised that they or Veteran Bike Squads didnt make it this edition. As for the units:

 

* Khan on a Bike is still a positive and he is a solid model with good equipment for a mere 20x5 points base.

 

* Relic Contemptor Dreadnoughts in a Drop Pod w/Dual Hvy. Flames has a ton of potential to be downright nasty imo. Plus the model is gorgeous as well.

 

* Bikes are looking great atm. Still some debate on how people plan to field their Bike Squads in terms of weaponry but I see potential in both the standard 8x man Squads equipped for CC, as well as the Tri-Melta with the Attack Bike included as it can't be singled out due to being apart of the Squad.

 

* Typhoon Land Speeders can be a solid choice for a Anti-Tank unit given the fact they benefit from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1. Still debating this one personally in terms of weapon loadouts, but their point decrease and fitting the White Scars in terms of fluff is a good start. Potential Dark Horse unit.

 

* Aggresors are a popular unit across the board for all Space Marine Chapters atm. Not much to add as everyone at this point knows their potential.

 

* Incursors are a great choice for WS players as they have their Paired Combat Blades and can generate an extra hit with an unmodified roll of a 6. Plus they are cheaper compared to the Infiltrators and they are an option if you dont want to spend the CP to make a Veteran Intercessor Squad. Personally I like the idea of Infiltrating them with a Stormseer in Phobos Armor and let them run wild.

 

* 6x man Intercessor Squads in Impulsors w/Auto Bolt Rifles is something I plan to test out asap. Having a fairly cheap (in terms of Primaris) mobile unit that can provide Fire-Support for our Bike Squads is always a good thing. But I do like the idea of placing Kor'sarro Khan and a unit of 9x Veteran Intercessors in a Repulsor as well.

 

* Scout Bikes are a very good option for White Scars. Cheaper than standard Bike Squads, they can still dish out a ton of Dakka with the Bolters and Shotguns and still hit hard in CC with the Shock Assault and Devestating Charge.

 

* Sternguard I would argue would be a solid choice for White Scars, especially in a Drop Pod. Having a unit of 5x to 10x coming in and unloading a bunch of Combi-Weapon and Grav-Cannons w/Grav-Amps can provide a great distraction until our Bike Units can get close.

 

Just a quick glance on the units that stood out for me when browsing the Codex and the WS Supplement.

I'm glad I wasnt the only one considering the land speeders. A squadron of 3 landspeeder typhoons slapped with 'big guns never tire' and 'skilled riders' stratagems might make them worthwhile, they get to keep the 20" move, have a 4++ and hit on 3's. Costly in CP but may be worth it for the first turn on devastator doctrine. It this or 2 lascannon toting stormtalon gunships covering my mechanised WS I'm planning.

^ Land Speeders are very fluffy and very White Scars considering their love for speed and lightning strike assaults on opponents. However I am still debating if they are worth getting as at most, I plan to at least have 3x Land Speeder Tempests from FW just because they look awesome. As for the standard GW ones, the Typhoon is nice but a pricey option but having the Multi-Melta & Hvy. Flamer Tornado variant is an option to consider. Or go cheap with a Dakka Gunboat with the Assault Cannon & Hvy. Bolter Tornado combo.

[mertbl]

I'm really digging the white scars supplement. I have visions in my head of a double moving rhino and then "lightning disembarking" a unit of sternguard with double heavy flamer and SIB and hosing down whatever is out in front. Next turn double move a chaplain with canticle of hate to meet up with some deep striking vanguard.

 

I'm really feeling the need for a loyal 32....

[Armament81]

I'm really digging the white scars supplement. I have visions in my head of a double moving rhino and then "lightning disembarking" a unit of sternguard with double heavy flamer and SIB and hosing down whatever is out in front. Next turn double move a chaplain with canticle of hate to meet up with some deep striking vanguard.

 

I'm really feeling the need for a loyal 32....

Don't do it (The loyal 32), or you loose combat doctrines and with it the extra damage while in Assault Doctrine.  

Edited August 22, 2019 by Armament81

[L30n1d4s]

I think a lot of Space Marine armies are going start looking at "The Indomitable 17" instead of "The Loyal 32":

 

HQ

-Chaplain

-Lieutenant

 

 

TR

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

 

For just under 300 points (or 15% of your points, in a typical 2000 point army list), you get three Objective Secure units that can "infiltrate" via Concealed Positions before the game starts, a cheap HQ to buff your damage output with the Lieutenant, and a solid "force multiplier" unit with the Chaplain that can pick one of the six Litanies to support your army.

 

On top of this, and perhaps most importantly, this little detachment gives you an extra 5 CPs, just like the Loyal 32, without compromising your ability to use Combat Doctrines or even Chapter Specific Doctrines, like Devastating Charge.

Edited August 22, 2019 by L30n1d4s

[mertbl]

Use 2 Tech marines and the price drops a bit more.

 

I think a lot of Space Marine armies are going start looking at "The Indomitable 17" instead of "The Loyal 32":

 

HQ

-Chaplain

-Lieutenant

 

 

TR

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

 

For just under 300 points (or 15% of your points, in a typical 2000 point army list), you get three Objective Secure units that can "infiltrate" via Concealed Positions before the game starts, a cheap HQ to buff your damage output with the Lieutenant, and a solid "force multiplier" unit with the Chaplain that can pick one of the six Litanies to support your army.

 

On top of this, and perhaps most importantly, this little detachment gives you an extra 5 CPs, just like the Loyal 32, granting you the ability to use a significantly higher number of Stratagems each game.

[MeltaRange]

I think a lot of Space Marine armies are going start looking at "The Indomitable 17" instead of "The Loyal 32":

 

HQ

-Chaplain

-Lieutenant

 

 

TR

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

-5 Scouts

 

For just under 300 points (or 15% of your points, in a typical 2000 point army list), you get three Objective Secure units that can "infiltrate" via Concealed Positions before the game starts, a cheap HQ to buff your damage output with the Lieutenant, and a solid "force multiplier" unit with the Chaplain that can pick one of the six Litanies to support your army.

 

On top of this, and perhaps most importantly, this little detachment gives you an extra 5 CPs, just like the Loyal 32, granting you the ability to use a significantly higher number of Stratagems each game.

 

Now I certainly think there's a time and place for this kind of battalion, (like you are really stressed on points) but for me I'd rather spend the points for something like:

 

• Phobos Captain
• Phobos Lt
• 3x5 Infiltrator w/ Comms Array

 

Yes this is a shade over 500 points, but it brings SO MUCH more. All of these units are significantly more dangerous than Scouts, and bring their 12" anti-DS bubble to the table. Plus, aesthetically, these models are light years ahead of Scouts. 

 

I do like Scouts though, particularly combat knife ones for White Scars. Not knocking this choice, just submitting some alternatives.

[MeltaRange]

Overall I am happy with the Codex Supplement as we get some great Stratagems to go with some cool relics. Am disappointed that we don't have the option for more HQ options such as a Stormseer or Chaplain on a Bike, but I'm not surprised that they or Veteran Bike Squads didnt make it this edition. As for the units:

 

* Khan on a Bike is still a positive and he is a solid model with good equipment for a mere 20x5 points base.

 

* Relic Contemptor Dreadnoughts in a Drop Pod w/Dual Hvy. Flames has a ton of potential to be downright nasty imo. Plus the model is gorgeous as well.

 

* Bikes are looking great atm. Still some debate on how people plan to field their Bike Squads in terms of weaponry but I see potential in both the standard 8x man Squads equipped for CC, as well as the Tri-Melta with the Attack Bike included as it can't be singled out due to being apart of the Squad.

 

* Typhoon Land Speeders can be a solid choice for a Anti-Tank unit given the fact they benefit from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1. Still debating this one personally in terms of weapon loadouts, but their point decrease and fitting the White Scars in terms of fluff is a good start. Potential Dark Horse unit.

 

* Aggresors are a popular unit across the board for all Space Marine Chapters atm. Not much to add as everyone at this point knows their potential.

 

* Incursors are a great choice for WS players as they have their Paired Combat Blades and can generate an extra hit with an unmodified roll of a 6. Plus they are cheaper compared to the Infiltrators and they are an option if you dont want to spend the CP to make a Veteran Intercessor Squad. Personally I like the idea of Infiltrating them with a Stormseer in Phobos Armor and let them run wild.

 

* 6x man Intercessor Squads in Impulsors w/Auto Bolt Rifles is something I plan to test out asap. Having a fairly cheap (in terms of Primaris) mobile unit that can provide Fire-Support for our Bike Squads is always a good thing. But I do like the idea of placing Kor'sarro Khan and a unit of 9x Veteran Intercessors in a Repulsor as well.

 

* Scout Bikes are a very good option for White Scars. Cheaper than standard Bike Squads, they can still dish out a ton of Dakka with the Bolters and Shotguns and still hit hard in CC with the Shock Assault and Devestating Charge.

 

* Sternguard I would argue would be a solid choice for White Scars, especially in a Drop Pod. Having a unit of 5x to 10x coming in and unloading a bunch of Combi-Weapon and Grav-Cannons w/Grav-Amps can provide a great distraction until our Bike Units can get close.

 

Just a quick glance on the units that stood out for me when browsing the Codex and the WS Supplement.

 

Lots of great points.  I think Sternguard are certainly very interesting, given that they do have 3A on the charge and dropped a few points. The presence of Feinting Withdrawal makes the prospect of charging in less dangerous because if you fail to wipe the unit, you can still Fall Back and Shoot in the next turn.

 

My only counterpoint really is that I think Incursors aren't great.  I'll take Infiltrators all day over them even at the increased price.  Paired Combat Blades kinds stinks - it's strictly worse than a Chainsword.

 

Khan on Bike is OK. I'm probably going with the Captain on Bike though just for the equipment options.

[MeltaRange]

 

I'm glad I wasnt the only one considering the land speeders. A squadron of 3 landspeeder typhoons slapped with 'big guns never tire' and 'skilled riders' stratagems might make them worthwhile, they get to keep the 20" move, have a 4++ and hit on 3's. Costly in CP but may be worth it for the first turn on devastator doctrine. It this or 2 lascannon toting stormtalon gunships covering my mechanised WS I'm planning.

 

 

Great points.  I didn't realize at first glace Big Guns Never Tire applied to the entire unit, so that's great for Land Speeders. I could see a unit of 3 with Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter. I believe that setup is 11pts cheaper now per Land Speeder.

 

You could also use a combo of Hunter's Fusillade and Skilled Riders to Advance, Shoot (at a -1) and have a 3++ for the unit. 

[MeltaRange]

@MeltaRange Great write up! When I saw your post about the bikes with all chain-swords doing encircle, I had to give it a go, and by the emperor is it solid.  My opponent didn't want to advance out because of its threat!  I also used a couple other things that I think are going to be great, its so nice to have so many good options again.

 

So I proxied in two Invictor Battle suits to try them out in the game too, and man are they awesome.  Start mid field with the flamers, and various WS bonuses you are in their lines and pressuring them from the outset!  I backed them up with two Ironclad Dreads that are super budget now! (121 for stock + assault launchers).  While they are slower, they have no reason to not always advance till they hit the enemy line, and boy will they crash hard into the line.

 

Another winner of the list was bring two Whirlwinds for some line of site ignoring shooting.  Solid volleys on the first turn with the Devastation Doctrine, and since we have so much bolter shooting with out bikes, I stuck to Vengeance Launchers for Auto-cannon shots.  Add in the 1 pt Strat for shooting a second time with 1, I was able to drop some chaff for my first turn charges with the Invictors.

 

In the long run what I think is so cool that we can now achieve is waves of aggression thanks you our speed.  Marines have never felt so much like Marines to me till this book, and then add in all the cool WS stuff and man am I loving the state of things atm.

 

For those interested here is the list I ran:

White Scars Battalion:

HQ - Captain on Bike (Power fist, Storm Shield, Shield Eternal, Warlord with Tempered by Wisdom for Imperium's Sword and Master of Snares)

HQ - Librarian on Bike (Artificer Armor, Storm Bolter, Might of Heros, Null Zone)

HQ - Librarian in Phobos Armor (Ride the Winds, Storm Wreathed)

Troops - 3 Units of 5 Intercessors with Chain Swords and Aux Launchers

Heavy - 2 Whirlwinds with Vengeance Launchers

 

White Scars Vanguard:

HQ - Chaplain with Jump Pack (Plasma Pistol, Exhortation of Rage)

Elite - 2 Invictor Warsuits with Flamers

Elite - 2 Base Ironclad Dreads with Assualt Launchers

 

White Scars Outrider:

HQ - Lieutenant with Jump Pack (Master Crafted Bolter, Power Axe)

Fast - 3 Attack Bikes with Multi-Melta

Fast - 9 Scout Bikes with Storm Bolter on sgt

Fast - 8 Bikers with Chainswords, and Power Axe on Sgt

 

So 2 cp to get the 2nd relic, and 2nd warlord trait on the warlord, then used a CP to outflank the biker squad, and put the Chappy and Lt in deep strike to join them when they come in.

Put the Invictors as close as I could but still be safe if I didn't get first turn. Then put everything else on the line, 2 Intercessors units and the Whirlwinds are about the only thing that stayed back for objectives, since so much pressure is applied from turn one, most people have to play on the back foot.  Also, the Phobos Libby is great with the WS discipline as he can be sitting mid field from turn one buffing units as they zoom bye into combat, and the Invictors help make sure he is mostly safe from round 1 shooting.

 

Very Nice! Nothing better than ACTUAL EXPERIENCE!  Love it, thank you for sharing.  One thing to note is I believe Librarian on Bike is no longer an eligible unit if you want to make your army eligible for Combat Doctrines since I don't believe it was FAQed to have Angels of Death.

 

How did the Attack Bikes do?  Given that they can move and fire with no penalty, I think they are solid for their points. The are also prime targets for a number of Statagems.

 

Whirlwinds are an underrated choice and glad to see others are getting mileage from them. Being able to shoot without LoS is an ability that comes up in nearly every game. 

[Armament81]

 

 

Very Nice! Nothing better than ACTUAL EXPERIENCE!  Love it, thank you for sharing.  One thing to note is I believe Librarian on Bike is no longer an eligible unit if you want to make your army eligible for Combat Doctrines since I don't believe it was FAQed to have Angels of Death.

 

How did the Attack Bikes do?  Given that they can move and fire with no penalty, I think they are solid for their points. The are also prime targets for a number of Statagems.

 

Whirlwinds are an underrated choice and glad to see others are getting mileage from them. Being able to shoot without LoS is an ability that comes up in nearly every game. 

 

The Attack Bikes work out great, they rarely have needed to advance, but on the one occasion that they did 1 cp removes it as an issue.  Whats great too, is while they can cause damage, so far none of my opponents (I have used them in a couple other list trials too) have gone strait for them so they get to puts around for a couple turns before they catch any fire.

 

As for the Libby on bike, I know and luckly my local club is nice about letting me use it still till the 2 week codex faq hits.  If they still don't have it by then, then I will throw in the towel and switch to a libby with jump pack, they are roughly close in price.

 

Seriously agree with you on the underrated nature of Whirlwinds, part of it has been that they havn't been good since 4th ed, so people keep overlooking them, but the codex brought yet another price drop so, 80 or 85 points for Castellan or Vengence launchers respectively is damn good.  Not sure I will have a list that doesn't use my 2 for some time now.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

how much of a point increase did aggressors get with the bump in W & A?

[CCE1981]

how much of a point increase did aggressors get with the bump in W & A?

0

[Rommel44]

 

 

 

 

Very Nice! Nothing better than ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! Love it, thank you for sharing. One thing to note is I believe Librarian on Bike is no longer an eligible unit if you want to make your army eligible for Combat Doctrines since I don't believe it was FAQed to have Angels of Death.

 

How did the Attack Bikes do? Given that they can move and fire with no penalty, I think they are solid for their points. The are also prime targets for a number of Statagems.

 

Whirlwinds are an underrated choice and glad to see others are getting mileage from them. Being able to shoot without LoS is an ability that comes up in nearly every game.

 

The Attack Bikes work out great, they rarely have needed to advance, but on the one occasion that they did 1 cp removes it as an issue. Whats great too, is while they can cause damage, so far none of my opponents (I have used them in a couple other list trials too) have gone strait for them so they get to puts around for a couple turns before they catch any fire.

 

As for the Libby on bike, I know and luckly my local club is nice about letting me use it still till the 2 week codex faq hits. If they still don't have it by then, then I will throw in the towel and switch to a libby with jump pack, they are roughly close in price.

 

Seriously agree with you on the underrated nature of Whirlwinds, part of it has been that they havn't been good since 4th ed, so people keep overlooking them, but the codex brought yet another price drop so, 80 or 85 points for Castellan or Vengence launchers respectively is damn good. Not sure I will have a list that doesn't use my 2 for some time now.

Glad to hear the Attack Bikes did well. I am planning on fielding 1x in each of my Bike Squads for the Tri-Melta build to test it out (have extra Bikes to replace them if I decide not to use them).

 

Libby on a Bike is a shame and while I am tempted to make one, I probably won't as I'm sure it will be gone by the next FAQ. Will stick with a Phobos/Primaris one or maybe test out a Libby with a Jump Pack to see how it does.

 

When it comes to the Whirlwind, would you vote for the Vengence or the Castellan Launchers? I'm leaning Vengence for the extra hitting power if I decided to get a Whirlwind or utilize my 3x SOB FW Exorcists as an Allied Spearhead Detachment.

[Rommel44]

 

 

Overall I am happy with the Codex Supplement as we get some great Stratagems to go with some cool relics. Am disappointed that we don't have the option for more HQ options such as a Stormseer or Chaplain on a Bike, but I'm not surprised that they or Veteran Bike Squads didnt make it this edition. As for the units:

 

* Khan on a Bike is still a positive and he is a solid model with good equipment for a mere 20x5 points base.

 

* Relic Contemptor Dreadnoughts in a Drop Pod w/Dual Hvy. Flames has a ton of potential to be downright nasty imo. Plus the model is gorgeous as well.

 

* Bikes are looking great atm. Still some debate on how people plan to field their Bike Squads in terms of weaponry but I see potential in both the standard 8x man Squads equipped for CC, as well as the Tri-Melta with the Attack Bike included as it can't be singled out due to being apart of the Squad.

 

* Typhoon Land Speeders can be a solid choice for a Anti-Tank unit given the fact they benefit from the Devestator Doctrine Turn 1. Still debating this one personally in terms of weapon loadouts, but their point decrease and fitting the White Scars in terms of fluff is a good start. Potential Dark Horse unit.

 

* Aggresors are a popular unit across the board for all Space Marine Chapters atm. Not much to add as everyone at this point knows their potential.

 

* Incursors are a great choice for WS players as they have their Paired Combat Blades and can generate an extra hit with an unmodified roll of a 6. Plus they are cheaper compared to the Infiltrators and they are an option if you dont want to spend the CP to make a Veteran Intercessor Squad. Personally I like the idea of Infiltrating them with a Stormseer in Phobos Armor and let them run wild.

 

* 6x man Intercessor Squads in Impulsors w/Auto Bolt Rifles is something I plan to test out asap. Having a fairly cheap (in terms of Primaris) mobile unit that can provide Fire-Support for our Bike Squads is always a good thing. But I do like the idea of placing Kor'sarro Khan and a unit of 9x Veteran Intercessors in a Repulsor as well.

 

* Scout Bikes are a very good option for White Scars. Cheaper than standard Bike Squads, they can still dish out a ton of Dakka with the Bolters and Shotguns and still hit hard in CC with the Shock Assault and Devestating Charge.

 

* Sternguard I would argue would be a solid choice for White Scars, especially in a Drop Pod. Having a unit of 5x to 10x coming in and unloading a bunch of Combi-Weapon and Grav-Cannons w/Grav-Amps can provide a great distraction until our Bike Units can get close.

 

Just a quick glance on the units that stood out for me when browsing the Codex and the WS Supplement.

I'm glad I wasnt the only one considering the land speeders. A squadron of 3 landspeeder typhoons slapped with 'big guns never tire' and 'skilled riders' stratagems might make them worthwhile, they get to keep the 20" move, have a 4++ and hit on 3's. Costly in CP but may be worth it for the first turn on devastator doctrine. It this or 2 lascannon toting stormtalon gunships covering my mechanised WS I'm planning.

Actually managed to test out 2x Squadrons of Land Speeders in a few games and here where my results:

 

* Ran a Squadron of 3x Typhoon Land Speeders w/Hvy. Bolters for the Co-Pilot weapon and they did ok for the most part. However, for their point cost they didn't do enough to make up for it even with the Devestator Doctrine, as while the -1 to hit wasnt a huge issue (stratagems were helpful but not a game changer), Missile Launchers in general have a hard time against T8 vehicles such as IG Leman Russ tanks or fellow Primaris vehicles. That and they get sniped very quickly and are limited by their weaponry as you want to hold back with them. Overall, decent unit but not great and they can have a hard time making up your points unless you roll like a Champ or play Ultramarines, whose Land Speeder Typhoons have a lot more success than ours.

 

* Other Land Speeder Squadron of 3x was the Dakka Tornado, which is the Hvy. Bolter & Assault Cannon combo. Had a lot more success with this variant as while they don't have S8, having a Squadron pump out 9x S5 -2AP shots and 18x S6 -2AP shots Turn 1 w/the Devestator Doctrine is a ton of hurt. That and since they aren't limited to holding back like the Typhoon Squadron, they provided to be an effective unit at charging in and holding up and enemy unit while preventing your opponent from firing on them and actually trying to waste other units to charging them in CC. Land Speeders are NOT a unit that will win you fights in CC, but they are a great distraction.

 

Plan to test out a Dual Hvy. Flamer Land Speeder Squadron next, also known as the "Flame" Tornado. Will let you know how it goes mates.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Rommel44

[Gundric]

Thanks Rommel44, I dont get to play very often sadly, I rarely get to test theories out! So back to MM attack bikes or lascannon stormtalon gunships for my anti-tank.

[Armament81]

 

 

 

 

Very Nice! Nothing better than ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! Love it, thank you for sharing. One thing to note is I believe Librarian on Bike is no longer an eligible unit if you want to make your army eligible for Combat Doctrines since I don't believe it was FAQed to have Angels of Death.

 

How did the Attack Bikes do? Given that they can move and fire with no penalty, I think they are solid for their points. The are also prime targets for a number of Statagems.

 

Whirlwinds are an underrated choice and glad to see others are getting mileage from them. Being able to shoot without LoS is an ability that comes up in nearly every game.

The Attack Bikes work out great, they rarely have needed to advance, but on the one occasion that they did 1 cp removes it as an issue. Whats great too, is while they can cause damage, so far none of my opponents (I have used them in a couple other list trials too) have gone strait for them so they get to puts around for a couple turns before they catch any fire.

 

As for the Libby on bike, I know and luckly my local club is nice about letting me use it still till the 2 week codex faq hits. If they still don't have it by then, then I will throw in the towel and switch to a libby with jump pack, they are roughly close in price.

 

Seriously agree with you on the underrated nature of Whirlwinds, part of it has been that they havn't been good since 4th ed, so people keep overlooking them, but the codex brought yet another price drop so, 80 or 85 points for Castellan or Vengence launchers respectively is damn good. Not sure I will have a list that doesn't use my 2 for some time now.

Glad to hear the Attack Bikes did well. I am planning on fielding 1x in each of my Bike Squads for the Tri-Melta build to test it out (have extra Bikes to replace them if I decide not to use them).

 

Libby on a Bike is a shame and while I am tempted to make one, I probably won't as I'm sure it will be gone by the next FAQ. Will stick with a Phobos/Primaris one or maybe test out a Libby with a Jump Pack to see how it does.

 

When it comes to the Whirlwind, would you vote for the Vengence or the Castellan Launchers? I'm leaning Vengence for the extra hitting power if I decided to get a Whirlwind or utilize my 3x SOB FW Exorcists as an Allied Spearhead Detachment.

 

 

A note on the attack bikes inside bike units, keep in mind what the role you are using the unit for, as if it is commonly advancing to achieve that role, you may not want to AB because it will only function if you use Hunters Fusillade or Born in the Saddle.  I kept them as a separate unit because in most cases 14" is enough to get them into 24" range.  But most melta gun bikers want to advance and get as close as they can for that extra damage die and charge maybe after.  I personally like just running 4 bikes in the Melta trie units, so that I have a 4th model that acts as chaff.  If it advances I don't have to spend precious CP to have them get to shoot their anti armor guns.

 

For the whirlwinds it really comes down to the list.  With White Scars if we are going bike heavy, we have some much small arms fire that the Castellan Launchers are good, but not quite what we need.  The Vengence are great sources of Autocannon shots effectively, aside from Suppressors as a source of overwatch denial, they are by far my favorite way of getting that tier of shooting.  And you just can't shake a stick at 85 for that platform at this point (which is actually 5 points cheaper than Suppressors!)