So what about Flyers?

[domsto]

Hello

 

So i want to play some Flyers.

Tanks and so are pretty Cool, but for a Sions themed Army Heavy Air Support seems more right.

So the only Flyer we have in the Codex is the Valkyrie. And i am not a big fan of it.

It seems overcosted for the lack of Firepower.

So Forge World it is.

 

I resently fell in love with the Thunderbolt, but it is a big investments in Points and Money.

 

But what are good Flyers for Guard?

Does anybody have some experience with the Flying metal boxes?

[MrZakalwe]

The Twin Punisher Vulture is the only guard flyer that regularly appears in tournaments.

 

I'm partial to the Desert Strike Vulture (heavy bolter, twin rocket pods, 6 hunterkiller missiles) but it's not optimal.

 

I've had as bit of fun fielding a barebones Valkyrie too but I mostly ended up using it to charge shooty stuff in the backline- if you put it into hover mode it can charge and this catches people by surprise the first time you do it -Landraider achilles certainly didn't see it coming.

Edited August 21, 2019 by MrZakalwe

[Captain_Krash]

Valk is really good actually. Don't forget about the main purpose of it. It's a transport with actual weapons and can get your men where you want them.

 

Krash

Edited August 21, 2019 by Captain_Krash

[domsto]

Valk is really good actually. Don't forget about the main purpose of it. It's a transport with actual weapons and can get your men where you want them.

 

Krash

But the only Units (besides Bullgryns) that want to come close to the Enemy are Sions. And they can deepstrike on their own.

So it's use as a Transporter is kinnda Limited.

i don't Know what you mean with "actual weapons" but 3 shoots s6/0/1 and one shoot S8/-2/d6 which hit on 5+ isn't really a Treat to anything 

[HallofStovokor]

 

 

Valk is really good actually. Don't forget about the main purpose of it. It's a transport with actual weapons and can get your men where you want them.

 

Krash

But the only Units (besides Bullgryns) that want to come close to the Enemy are Sions. And they can deepstrike on their own.

So it's use as a Transporter is kinnda Limited.

i don't Know what you mean with "actual weapons" but 3 shoots s6/0/1 and one shoot S8/-2/d6 which hit on 5+ isn't really a Treat to anything

The valkyrie can get your scions into close range on turn 1. While not technically a deepstrike, it's close enough. If you're running scions as a proper army, you can bring a maxed squad and tempestor prime in the valkyrie and deepstrike 2 command squads with meltaguns or plasma guns. The only other flyer worth bringing is the vulture gunship.

[librisrouge]

I wish that the other IG flyers were worth a damn. I really do. I miss my vendettas and truly want to field my thunderbolt in a list without it taking a hit just to field a model I like. They're bad though. Lack of Power of the Machine Spirit (or equivalent) and expensive guns is painful.

[Captain_Krash]

Also Crusaders work well in a Valk as well.

 

Krash

[Kain Mor]

The rocket pods are much better on the Valk than the large missiles, in hover mode they’ll be up to hitting on 3s.

Valkyrie air cavalry Scions with the specialist detachment were quite tasty before the heavy handed nerf the Valkyrie got in April.

 

If we all cross our fingers they’ll change the wording on the Valk nerf to match the new Impulsor, in which case it might be a valid choice again.

[Slasher956]

Also Crusaders work well in a Valk as well.

 

Krash

 

using the AM codex or the sisters beta?

[Captain_Krash]

Sisters beta would over ride the rules in the index I believe. Put a Priest with them as well really really good CC unit where guard is lacking.

 

Krash

Edited August 22, 2019 by Captain_Krash

[domsto]

Sisters beta would over ride the rules in the index I believe. Put a Priest with them as well really really good CC unit where guard is lacking.

 

Krash

Please don't remind me of the desaster that was the Sisters Beta Codex^^

So the overall opinion on Flyers seems to be "don't"

Well at least it saves me some Money:)

Edited August 28, 2019 by domsto

[ScionOfCorlesia]

Punisher Vulture will, well.. Punish enemy hordes and let you throw enough dice to make some other things worry.

Like said above, Valkyries can put out some decent damage for a transport.

If you're planning on using them with Scions, I'd kit them out with Rocketpods, Multilaser and Bolters and use them to get in your opponents face before turn 2.

Using the Vigilus Scion formation, you get a couple buffs from this play style too.

[Shamansky]

 

i don't Know what you mean with "actual weapons" but 3 shoots s6/0/1 and one shoot S8/-2/d6 which hit on 5+ isn't really a Treat to anything 

 

 

Thanks to Roving Gunship ability it still can be 4+ to-hit after 20" movement 1st turn 

Rocket pods and Heavy bolters (which is actually 6+2D6 heavy bolter shots) and multi-laser are for cheap-screen cleaning to let the passengers hit the real target. And it also must be considered that Rocket pod is actually an Assault weapon. That's kind of pretty good in my books. Slightly expensive, maybe slightly situational, but still good.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Shamansky

[duz_]

I agree the ML / Rocket pod combo is a good load out if you can afford the sponson heavy bolters even better :tu:

 

I do wish they'd revise the FW flyer costs

[Exilyth]

Well, my Valk is still on the workbench waiting for magnets, so I didn't get much use out of it yet (I don't like to proxy units in my armies).

I'm planning to build multilaser + rocket pods & to use it to drop some flamers on my enemies.

 

If everything goes according to plan I'll be able to also use my Valk as a Valkyrie Sky Talon (leaving off the transport compartment and rocket pods) - which is basically a flying heavy bolter which can transport/drop sentinels. As far as I heard, it's not very effective, but a great fluffy choice: I really like Sentinels and having a dedicated transport for them is like the cherry on top.

 

 

I thought about adding one Marauder Destroyer/Bomber, but that would be more of a display piece and/or reserved for Apoc games. Also, the price point and having to work with resin so far successfully kept me from realizing that idea.  

 

 

I keep hearing good about Vultures with punisher cannons - like leman russ punishers, but flying fast. They seem to show up in tournaments from time to time too. Wouldn't want to be dependant on one weapon system though. Imho, the 'giant metal fan behind the cockpit' doesn't fit an VTOL. Also, the whole price/material conundrum.

[Shamansky]

As far as i remember Sky talons can transport Tauroses. At least that's what FW Sky talon model is usually shown with uned its' belly
 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Shamansky

[STTAB]

I like flyers and I run 1 to 3 Valks and a Vulture.

 

Good with Catachan, Vostroyan or Armageddon guardsmen to take the middle of the table. I often run the Vigilus detachment with scions or pair with the Emperors Blade assault.

 

Some fun tactics;

 

Taurox/chimera uses Vigilus Strat to disembark after moving. With implacable determination you can get a Catachan squad moved 14+6+3.97 string the squad back to where the Valk can drop troops and consolidate (Straken and Priest also drop from the Valk). That takes now you have. 20 man squad touching the opponents deployment zone with +2 attacks each. Bonus if you have an astropath to give them +1 save and another for -1 to be hit from shooting and take cover start (can also be used in combat). I used this in a doubles tournament and it won is most of our games as the opponent would have to put so much into dealing with them that we’d massively out score them.

 

T1 take the centre with 2 or 3 valks and drop Yarrick for reroll ones and 2 guard squads, move move move up a company commander with old grudges for a forward castle. I’ll also have use the vigilus tank move strat to bring up a plasma tank commander to the rear of the bubble. Blast something rerolling ones and all wounds. T2 hover the valks, move up to 20 and charge tanks to shut them down ;)

 

I shut down a Vindicare recently by keeping it in close combat with a Valk for the whole game.

[Maxamato]

I miss my 4 Vendettas too.

Is there any possibility to negate the movement penalty (beside of hover) and/or improve the BS?

[domsto]

I like flyers and I run 1 to 3 Valks and a Vulture.

 

Good with Catachan, Vostroyan or Armageddon guardsmen to take the middle of the table. I often run the Vigilus detachment with scions or pair with the Emperors Blade assault.

 

Some fun tactics;

 

Taurox/chimera uses Vigilus Strat to disembark after moving. With implacable determination you can get a Catachan squad moved 14+6+3.97 string the squad back to where the Valk can drop troops and consolidate (Straken and Priest also drop from the Valk). That takes now you have. 20 man squad touching the opponents deployment zone with +2 attacks each. Bonus if you have an astropath to give them +1 save and another for -1 to be hit from shooting and take cover start (can also be used in combat). I used this in a doubles tournament and it won is most of our games as the opponent would have to put so much into dealing with them that we’d massively out score them.

 

T1 take the centre with 2 or 3 valks and drop Yarrick for reroll ones and 2 guard squads, move move move up a company commander with old grudges for a forward castle. I’ll also have use the vigilus tank move strat to bring up a plasma tank commander to the rear of the bubble. Blast something rerolling ones and all wounds. T2 hover the valks, move up to 20 and charge tanks to shut them down

 

I shut down a Vindicare recently by keeping it in close combat with a Valk for the whole game.

 

But how can they Survive even a single Turn this close to the Enemy?

and what do you do with the Valks after you dropped them?

[Exilyth]

Something to keep in mind is that anti-air units/weapons are much more readily available to most factions one way or another this edition.

 

Things to look/watch out for when using flyers include but are not limited to:

• space marines: stalker/hunter, devastators w/flakk and hellfire strat, icarus pod on redemptor dreads and/or repulsors
• astra militarum: hydra tanks and emplacements, HWTs w/flakk missiles (rather rare tbh. but might happen)
• admech: onager dunecrawler w/icarus array
• knights/chaos knights: that autocannon carapace weapon
• orks: flakk guns, large mobs rolling lucky

and due to the way the rules work (& contrary to logic and reason): any unit equipped with flamers - especially long ranged flamers, e.g. hellhounds, invictor war suits, ...

 

Also, due to the long range and the damage profile, people really seem to love shooting autocannons (and weapons with autocannon-like profiles) at flyers.

[WarriorFish]

Don't forget that the -1 to hit isn't such a big deal for anyone with BS3+ either (or the volume of fire some can muster!), so flyers don't get much protection from zooming around. I've not used a flyer once in 8th and can't see that changing :confused: I don't have particular problems moving my troops around so the main advantages don't seem that useful to me?

[STTAB]

@Domsto, depends on situation but i’ll often Keep Valks in fly T1. Depending on the enemies capabilities i’ll Either screen infantry with flyers or flyers with infantry. For example if they have scary ground based close combat and no fly i’ll Drop scions and/or guardsmen behind a wall of flyers.

 

I don’t expect the flyers to survive close combat but it’s job is to shut down threats. You charge a shooty unit, they usually can’t fall back and shoot that turn, you charge the big close combat threat with a flyer they usually can’t fall back and charge again. It also steals turns of movement from these units and keeps the opponent focused on their own deployment zone while I dominate the centre.

 

It’s a tactical decision, trading a valk for shutting down opponents units for a turn or two and they usually end up putting the anti tank into the valk in their face instead of the Leman Russes. If the valk lives you can always fall back and shoot, or if they fell back from you, shoot and charge again.

 

My list for the next tournament has the BA smash captain and Libby dread. Turn 2 I could have 20 guardsmen, 3 flyers, a Libby dread and a smash captain charging inside the opponents deployment zone, giving everyone the bad touch and causing panic.

[STTAB]

With flyers losing Prepared Positions, you can still get cover. The way cover works now is you need to be WITHIN a terrain feature and at least 50% obscured. You can start one flyer within cover (base just needs to be a bit WITHIN) and another flyer parked in front to obscure 50%. You would do this if you had a Valk full of scions for the drop force and could park a vulture or another Valk with less valuable cargo in front.

[KGatch113]

Just wondering...no rules that I can see, but once you drop into hover mode, you are stuck there? No moving back to supersonic? For Valks, obviously.

Edited March 15, 2020 by duz_
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