Knights: Tyrant vs. Despoiler

[Sgt. Blank]

I'm looking to add a third Titanic Knight to my army and was interested in getting some other perspectives since I haven't played that frequently recently.

 

I've got a Rampager and Dual Avenger Despoiler and I'm interested in adding a Knight that will complement those units, as well as Khorne Daemons and Worldeater CSM. I think I've got an abundance of assault units already so I'm not interested in another melee knight.

 

I'm looking primarily at a Dual Battlecannon/Missile Despoiler vs a Knight Valiant-style Tyrant and leaning towards the Despoiler, due to the lower point cost and greater range of the main weapons. The Tyrant looks to have a slight edge in durability and single turn volume of fire, but the limited range seems like it might not be able to fire every turn.

 

Am I missing anything? I like the look of the Tyrant but it's too pricey for something I won't use

[Guiltysparc]

This is the same kind of list i'm building (all khorne, all day).  The dual RFBC knight with vow of the beast slayer (reroll wounds of 1 vs targets with more than 8 wounds) seems pretty good and would give you a ranged option to knock down big targets.  You've got a lot of melee and good anti-horde (via melee and also your dual AVGC knight), so something like the RFBC knight would be a pretty cost effective compliment.

 

Out of curiosity, since i'm working on the same kind of army, what world eater and demon units are you taking and what point level?

[Tyriks]

I have a Valiant, I've used it as imperial and now as Chaos. It doesn't hold up super well if you want something competitive. I've had much more luck with Dominus class knights.

 

The harpoon is doing 0 damage something like 60% of the time, if it's even in range. I don't enjoy missing that much with a model that cost 1/3 of my army or more. The flamer is good, but I don't find it good enough to justify the dead weight of the harpoon.

[Sgt. Blank]

Thanks for the solid, constructive feedback. I'm not looking to win tournaments but I don't want to pay for a model I'm not going to use much if at all. Sounds like the harpoon is less effective than I thought even, which makes it an easier choice.

 

As far as other units, I'm tinkering with what sort of list I want to use - usually looking at 2000 points.

 

Some mix and match of

 

Daemon Battalion ~450 (Daemon Bomb)

• 2 x Bloodmasters
• 2 x 10 Bloodletters with Instruments
• 1 x 20 Bloodletters with Instrument and Banner of Blood

World Eater Battalion ~650

• Chaos Lord with Power Axe and Chainsword
• Exalted Champion with Power Sword and Chainsword
• 2 x 8 Berserkers with Chain Axe, Chain Sword, icon, power axe champ
• 10 autogun cultists
• 2 x Rhino

Bench - units to tinker

• Bloodthirster
• Karanak
• 5 x Fleshhounds
• 10 x more Bloodletters
• Soulgrinder
• Chaos Lord on Juggernaut
• 3 x Predator Annihilator
• Defiler
• Maulerfiend
• Daemon Prince with Wings and Sword

Knights

• Dual Avenger
• Rampager
• 2 x autocannon War Dog
• 1 x thermal lance war Dog

Basically, I can take the two battalions and a light knights detachment (dual avenger and 2 x war dogs) or 2 knights and one battalion with some bench units or war dogs to fill in. If I add a third knight, it would be the three titanic class knights (about 1400 points) plus a battalion.

 

The double battalion is fun - the daemons hit hard if they can land in a decent spot and the knights and Berserkers present a decent counter to the opponent flooding the board to block deep strike and there's enough armor on the board that something lives long enough to charge.

 

Not super competitive, since half the units are assault units but they can hit hard at times.They aren't fast enough or durable to be truly elite.

[Guiltysparc]

Nice, nice. I've been thinking about the following at 1,500pts

 

Super Heavy Detachment

-Rampager

-2x chainsaw Wardogs

 

Daemons

-Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

-3x4 Flesh Hounds

 

World Eaters

-Khârn

-8x Berzerkers with the usual loadout

-Rhino

 

A dual cannon knight would make a nice addition to that list to get up to 2k. I've also thought about changing the CSM detachment to a battalion of foot slogging 5 man Berzerkers lead by a Lord and Champion to get more CP. I would change the Outrider demons to just a bloodthirster with a single unit of bloodletters to keep it at 1500pt. Either would be fun I think.

[Sgt. Blank]

Sounds good. For whatever it's worth, dual avenger is pretty nice and might also be a good complement. I think there's something to be said for having several high toughness, significant threats on the table - a couple Knights would give opponents pause over targeting the Bloodthirster heavily turn one and by turn two, he's in range to gathering skulls for the skull throne.

 

I haven't had good experiences with foot-slogging assault units for a couple editions. I haven't tried any Legion but Worldeaters so I can't speak to Alpha Legion or Renegade Berzerkers, but have found transports to be a necessity if you want them to affect the game beyond eatting a bunch of bullets or lasers. Hence the Rhinos and Daemon Bomb

 

CP wise, the way I'm using them, the Daemons use all the CP they provide, the CSM don't usually and Knights fall somewhere in-between from the limited experience I've had. Getting the extra +3 for three titanic Knights would make it easier to use the Iconoclast vows and/or a second artifact (Veil of Medrengard, Gauntlet of Ascension or Tyrant's Banner maybe) and still having flexibility to use either Full Tilt or Trail of Destruction at least once, which both could give a big advantage in the early stages of a game.

[Guiltysparc]

Ya, I feel like full tilt is an absolute must at least once. Could also Chuck a land raider in there for the Berzerkers and then you'd have another tough model pulling double duty as a transport.

[Sgt. Blank]

I understand the thought process but I'm dubious about Landraiders, honestly. From fighting against them, I'd agree they're plenty tough if there are other high toughness units on the board as well but their point cost seems pretty high - almost as much as a melee Despoiler Knight. I like the new demonic machine spirit and maybe I'm not crediting that enough.

 

If you give it a shot I'd be curious to know how it works for you. My gut is that the difference over Rhinos doesn't warrant the cost but I can see how it would improve the reach of their charge and add anti tank shots on the way in. Maybe Khârn tips the balance in terms of the assault capacity you're delivering, I'm not a fan of special characters and haven't tried him.

[Guiltysparc]

I don't think Khârn is the most efficient choice, I just love him lol

[Reaper Grim]

Hey guys, I like both your list ideas. I posted a similar minded list in the chaos marine section, below is what I was thinking. Im trying to flood the field with high priority targets with the goal of landing the berserkers where I want them. The Lord and Exalted Champ go in the Landraider with one of the zerker squads. I haven't played with it yet because I'm building the knight, disco lord and maulerfiends, but figured I would share. I think it looks fun, won't know how competitive it is until I get these daemon engines finished!

 

World Eaters - 1,998 points

 

Legion Trait - Butcher's Nails

 

Battalion Detachment: (792 pts.)

 

 

HQ 1: Chaos Lord – (95 pts.)

Chainsword & Thunderhammer

HQ 2: Exalted Champion – (91 pts.)

Chainsword & Thunderhammer

 

Troop 1: 8 Khorne Berserkers – (154 pts.)

8 chainswords, 7 chainaxes, powerfist, icon of wrath

Troop 2: 8 Khorne Berserkers – (154 pts.)

8 chainswords, 7 chainaxes, powerfist, icon of wrath

Troop 3: 8 Khorne Berserkers – (154 pts.)

8 chainswords, 7 chainaxes, powerfist, icon of wrath

Dedicated Transport 1: Chaos Rhino w/ combi-bolter – (72 pts.)

Dedicated Transport 2: Chaos Rhino w/ combi-bolter – (72 pts.)

 

 

Spearhead Detachment: (721 pts.)

 

Soulforged Pack (-1CP)

HQ 1: Lord Discordant w/ autocannon - (160 pts.)

Brass Collar of Bhorghaster

Heavy Support 1: Maulerfiend w/ lasher tendrils - (132 pts.)

Heavy Support 2: Maulerfiend w/ lasher tendrils - (132 pts.)

Heavy Support 3: Chaos Land Raider - (297 pts.)

 

 

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment: (485 pts.)

 

Lord of War 1: Knight Despoiler – (485 pts.)

Avenger Gatling Cannon x2, Heavy Flamer x2, Heavy Stubber

Corrupted Heirlooms Stratagem to access the relic Helm of Warp-sight (-1CP)

[Guiltysparc]

Ya, I like that. I was thinking about a soul forged pack with maulerfiends also, that seems like a really good pairing with the choas knights.

[Mcha0s92]

I'm looking to add a third Titanic Knight to my army and was interested in getting some other perspectives since I haven't played that frequently recently.

 

I've got a Rampager and Dual Avenger Despoiler and I'm interested in adding a Knight that will complement those units, as well as Khorne Daemons and Worldeater CSM. I think I've got an abundance of assault units already so I'm not interested in another melee knight.

 

I'm looking primarily at a Dual Battlecannon/Missile Despoiler vs a Knight Valiant-style Tyrant and leaning towards the Despoiler, due to the lower point cost and greater range of the main weapons. The Tyrant looks to have a slight edge in durability and single turn volume of fire, but the limited range seems like it might not be able to fire every turn.

 

Am I missing anything? I like the look of the Tyrant but it's too pricey for something I won't use

What about adding a castigator as the third knight?

[Sgt. Blank]

What about adding a castigator as the third knight?

I pulled the trigger and got a Knight Warden to use as the basis for another Despoiler.

 

I did look at the castigator and lancer since they both are cool models but decided against that for a couple reasons. First, they're a lot more expensive to buy, even if you go for knockoffs. Second, in terms of what they offer on the table, neither has the sort of firepower I was interested in. The fact that the Despoiler can mount two "main guns" plus a carapace weapon is a big advantage. I feel like the Rampages plus Berzerkers or Daemons already handle melee more than adequately so there's diminishing returns to adding more assault units.

 

On its own, the castigator is decent in my view and probably a good option if you are looking for a Knight with flexibility to fill a couple roles. I think it compares favorably with a gun\melee Despoiler but it loses out in points cost to the Rampages and melee Despoiler and shooting efficiency to dual gun set ups, particularly when using Trail of Destruction.