Rating, comparing and discussing the Primarchs series so far

[Red_Shift]

So there was an interesting aside in the Angron thread and to avoid derailing it I've taken the liberty of moving discussion/replying here. In part because I am very nearly up to date with the primarch series being part way through Jaghatai and having just Curze waiting.

 

My personal non-numerical rankings as of the 12 that have been released so far:

 

Top Tier: absolutely worth reading, add something phenomenal to the setting:

• Fulgrim
• Jaghatai Khan
• Leman Russ

Second Tier: each of these have A. some moments that are SO good it's worth slogging through the rest for, or B. have some interesting enough ideas that never quite reach their maturation, yet it's still worth experiencing:

• Perturabo (A)
• Magnus the Red (B )
• Angron (A)

Perfectly serviceable: good reads, worth any fan's time and have some great worldbuilding or characterization, but are held back by other elements:

• Lorgar
• Corax

Worthless: (ok that's harsh, but each of these I thought was either A. a waste of time, B. just downright boring, or C. actively worsened our understanding portrayal of a character we needed to know more about):

• Vulkan (B )
• Ferrus Manus ©
• Roboute Guilliman (A)

Not yet read: Konrad Curze

I have to say that top tier for me, so far, are Jaghatai (yes, already), Russ and Perturabo. I rate Perturabo particularly high, as I collect Imperial Fists and am a huge Dorn fan so am naturally inclined to hate the character but the book really gave a good insight into him.

 

Magnus, Fulgrim, Lorgar I would say better than average.

 

Ferrus and Angron slightly worse than average. Corax was not great but not bad enough to be bottom teir. I found it completely nonsensical that Corax would allow massive losses in his allies just to follow some half baked idea of justice. Ferrus would have been good if having spent the first half of the book trying to show his brothers that he could do things sensibly and prove himself he hadn't then gone off the rails in the second half. It also teased a Dorn/Ferrus conflict and then never delivered which irritated me.

 

Guilliman and Vulkan. Guilliman I couldn't follow the logic of the tactics used and found Guilliman himself to have been unbearably smug, almost to caricature levels. Vulkan was just completely unremarkable and could have been any space marine character in any by the numbers book.

[Kelborn]

There's a difference between liking a book for its prose, story, quality, etc. and liking a novel for something specific.

 

Has a lot to do with expactations and if they were met or not or even excelled, etc.

 

An example: Guiliman is overall an average/ lower tier (though I despise to downgrade someones effort like this!) BUT it has a decent way to depict the complicated relation between the oh so noble Guiliman and his "dirty work" sons, the destroyers.

 

Another example: Lorgar is superb in world building and showing us Lorgars childhood, etc. Does it feel like a 40K novel? Not really, more like a apocalyptic setting for a movie. A mixture between Mad Max, Waterworld and Dune if you want. Is it in my top tier ranking? Nope, but because of what I've mentioned I really liked that one, although I generally hate Lorgar and his zealot bunch.

 

Corax and Perturabo on the other hand had some really in depth character dive ins for their respective Primarchs. The discussions at the end of both were the highlights, imho.

 

Nevertheless, you would like to have a "ranking"? Here ya go. It may vary from other rankings for the previously mentioned reasons.

 

Rank 1, what I'd call a mustread: Jaghatai Khan (fanboy), Leman Russ (fanboy), Perturabo, Corax

 

Rank 2, what I'd call a mustread for certain aspects: Lorgar, Angron

 

Rank 3, what I'd call a solid, yet "regular" one: Guiliman, Magnus

 

What I haven't read yet: Fulgrim, Ferrus, Vulkan, Curze

[Tymell]

For me it'd be:

 

Top tier, best of the best, does fantastic work with the primarch, the gold standard of the series:

• Perturabo: The Hammer of Olympia
• Angron: Slave of Nuceria
• Jaghatai Khan: Warhawk of Chogoris
• Corax: Lord of Shadows

 

Upper tier, there's maybe an issue or two, or it just doesn't impress on quite the same level as the above, but still an absolutely solid book:

• Lorgar: Bearer of the Word
• Fulgrim: The Palatine Phoenix
• Leman Russ: The Great Wolf

 

Mid-tier, still not bad, but a bit more mixed:

• Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero

 

Lower tier, weak offerings, that can probably be skipped by non-completionists. Even if not truly terrible, they're mostly dull or handle the subject unsatisfactorily:

• Vulkan: Lord of Drakes
• Roboute Guilliman: Lord of Ultramar
• Ferrus Manus: The Gorgon of Medusa

I haven't yet read any that I've felt were absolute garbage, so I guess I'd reserve another tier down there. Haven't gotten to Curze's book yet either, but hopeful.

[Roomsky]

So I'm going to be weighing two factors when categorizing these. The first is the obvious measure: General quality (1). Is it well written? Is it interesting? Would I like to read it again? The second is arguably equally important: how much did it add to / improve my view of the character (2). The Primarchs series was the opportunity to add further depth to, and potentially even rehabilitate certain, characters that the mainline series may have squandered.

 

Top Tier - Either a great book, or a substantial improvement to the character and legion

 

Fulgrim (1: 7:10 - 2: 10/10)  Well written, interesting premise, completely saved the character from being nothing more than an entertaining antagonist.

Jaghatai Khan (1: 9/10 - 2: 7/10) Superbly written, an excellent prequel, sheds light on the Librarius' founding and is very well structured. No huge revelations.

Corax (1: 6.5/10 - 2: 8/10) A great prequel for fans of Thorpe's work, and a great improvement for those that aren't. Combines good character work, intrigue, and non-standard action that helps you get to know Corax. Haley's prose is meh as always.

 

 

Decent Tier - Either a good book, or something that adds a bit of texture to the character / legion

 

Angron (1: 8/10 - 2: 6/10) A well executed piece that stumbles a bit at the end. It's interesting to see the War Hounds, but it doesn't add that much to the tragedy of his character beyond satisfying some curiosity.

Ferrus Manus (1: 6/10 - 2: 7/10) Controversial opinion: I quite like Guymer's writing, though it's not as strong here as in his 40k work. Shows the Iron Hands well enough before their technology obsession, has a strong cast and enemy to fight, and does in my opinion do the best it could have done to combine a Ferrus that contends for warmaster with a Ferrus who commits the biggest tactical fail in the Heresy.

Konrad Curze (1: 6.5/10 - 2: 6.5/10) A pretty enjoyable book, fills in a lot of interesting gaps. The characters present all feel more than a little stripped down, even Curze, but it engages with a lot of aspects of his premonitions only glossed over before. The best of the character outside of ADB or Spurrier's works, though still nothing mind blowing.

Lorgar (1: 6/10 - 2: 7/10) Passable writing, though above average for Thorpe. Like Angron, it's full of interesting tidbits that again, don't really do anything the allusions in ADBs works don't already do in less page time. Props for moving Lorgar as a manipulative sociopath (from the beginning!) from subtext into text with an excellent ending.

Perturabo (1: 6/10 - 2: 6/10) Mediocre book with a fantastic ending. Haley's writing feels rushed and it doesn't really add anything to the legion or character beyond reconciling French's depictions of the character with Mcneill's. I'll always read it for that gut-wrenching finale, but The Emperor's Architect does this book's job more effectively in a fraction of the page count.

Leman Russ (1: 7/10 - 2: 4/10) A decent book, though very strangely paced. I adore what it does with The Lion, but Russ and his legion don't really gain anything from it. At best it's a decent account of a famous bit of lore, at worst it somewhat muddies Russ' arc with an odd amiability for a pre-Prospero Leman.

 

 

Poor Tier - A poor book, or a detrimental / non-existent effect on the character / faction

 

Roboute Guilliman (1: 4.5/10 - 2: 5/10) Passable writing, flows into Ruinstorm fairly well. A lot of interesting ideas are trying to get out, both with Guilliman's guilt over Monarchia, and his issues with the Destroyers in his legion. The focus is absolutely in the wrong place, however, with far too much attention on killing orks, and far too little on the character we came for. Guilliman also occasionally lapses from "good-natured teacher" to "condescending troll."

Vulkan (1: 4/10 - 2: 4/10) Guilliman, but worse. Too many orks, not enough character, in retrospect no more interesting than Kyme's works. A different flavour for the legion, at least.

Magnus (1: 6/10 - 2: 1.5/10) This book is pointless at best at detrimental at worst. We learn nothing new about Magnus or his legion. None of the characters present have any kind of arc. It comes across less as Magnus being static because he's good-naturedly arrogant and more because his primarch brain isn't absorbing the sensory input before him. Just go read A Thousand Sons again, this book is a waste of time.

[Fedor]

Rouboute Guilliman...some interesting conflict for Guilliman is touched on, but mostly just a well written by the numbers battle book that didn't feel like right focus for a tale meaning to get to the heart of the character.

 

Leman Russ... Well written battlebook retelling of old lore, but again not sure it was the best choice of subject for a Russ tale, though better in that aspect than several others.

 

Magnus The Red....interesting choice of scenario, but ultimately didn't do much with it as far as delving deeper into Magnus character goes. Basically incosequential. I also wish McNeill would give us a Perturabo with even a hint of the flaws he's meant to have, something he entirely failed to do here or in AE.

 

Perturabo...The first one to be an ideal mix of existing lore, timelines and new scenario to really get further insight into the character. Excellent

 

Lorgar...The second one to be an ideal choice of time and scenario for getting further into the meat of the character. Excellent.

 

Fulgrim... The third excellent one in a row. Very astute choice of new scenario to give Fulgrim great development.

 

Ferrus Manus... THe hands are the legion i play and I like this better now than i did initially. Well written and does well in what it sets out to do which is show that the Iron hands are really monsters who would be the villian of most sci-fi and show a turning point for Ferrus moving from ambitious and disgruntled at never being challenged to  being much more comfortable in his role and self-aware of weaknesses by the end ie. the more settled character we initially see in Fulgrim who has no interest in being Warmaster anymore. However i don't agree with Roomsky about it doing the best it could to show a Ferrus pursuing the Warmaster role...it could simply have more faithfully recreated the Forgeworld Gardinaal lore if it wanted to do that, instead of making the conflict an exploration of flaws and full of obvious Drop Site foreshadowing. The character potentially has much more to offer than needing to spoon on the foreshadowing of the very specific set of circumstances that led to his downfall all the time. The  lack of any other Great Crusade work showing Ferrus and the IH at or near their best and establishing the commander who had successfully in the past lead entire  sections of the GC left this book with a very incomplete feel, a vibe that you were reading an excerpt from a much bigger book. A turning point with no setup.

 

Jaghatai Khan...Coming from the same author who had already significantly developed the basis of the character, this had a feeling of being a collection of additional reading vignettes to further round him out rather than a single story and did it very well. In that sense very different from any of the others so far. Also the exact opposite of the supposed initial brief for the series where we would get new authors tackling characters, but by this point with Wraight himself doing Russ and McNeill going for Magnus and Perturabo again i wasn't expecting that to be upheld

 

Vulkan..another by the numbers battlebook story vs Orks from Annandale that wasn't an interesting choice of scenario for character development at all. A let down as i thought Annandale would be a good choice to add some darker shades to Vulkan, but the entire thing just came off(perhaps unfairly) as something he had been told to focus on(from forgeworld lore if i remember correctly) rather than devised himself.

 

Corax...Similar approach to Ferrus in that it was looking at a less than glorious campaign and showcasing some flaws. This worked much better here as we've had more of Corax at his best to contrast with. Very Good.

 

Angron... Well written and good choices of scenario for further World Eaters character development. I do feel it missed an opportunity to give a more creative, extended look of Angron's time on Nuceria rather than just stick to the Spartacus stuff. Very good.

 

Curze...This had some of the approach of Jaghatai and did it similarly well. An excellent further look into Curze thoughts.

[Knockagh]

Top three

Lorgar,

Perturabo,

Angron

 

Mid three

Khan

Corax

Russ

 

Lower Three

Magnus

Manus

Fulgrim

 

In the underhive

Gulliman

Vulkan

 

Good but kind of gross (not a criticism)

Cruze

 

I’m setting Cruze off to the side because it felt an odd sort of book but it always was going to be. The mans a vile creep.

 

Lorgar is still my favourite, I love it when a writer shows me another corner of the galaxy and does it masterfully. It shouldn’t feel like 40k because it’s not. It’s not even the imperium. Complaining that this book doesn’t have a 40k feel to it would be like complaining a unity wars series doesn’t feel like the heresy series. It shouldn’t.

The closest I can think of this elsewhere is in Jain Zar when we get a glimpse of pre fall Eldar society. I found it thrilling to read about that piece of history and how odd it sits with Eldar in 40k. It’s history.

[Fedor]

As an aside, i wonder why they initially decided to give everyone Ferrus silver looking eyes for the artwork. I've noticed they stopped it for the last 2 or 3, but it's weird seeing Russ, Guilliman, Fulgrim and others like that.

[Red_Shift]

Ferrus for me might have rated higher, except that his character has been poorly handled in the heresy, imo (rushes in and gets head cut off) and I think i wanted him to be wiser, more measured and noble and for his actions at istvaan to be slightly out or character due to the extremities of the situation and instead the book reinforced the stereotype. It was disappointing.

 

@Kelborn, the ranking was a result of replying to another poster, but nevertheless - I am fairly fortunate in being able to afford all these books but most won't, so I think it is reasonable to rank the better to worst. I also feel that GW set the bar when they created the series and I would expect a degree of consistency. It's interesting to me that there are some that really seem to be below par compared to others when you consider that the brief should be about the same. There are some primarchs that I naturally like more than others from the get go. However, I like to be challenged even if I will never love the character. Perturabo was a pleasure for that reason.

[b1soul]

I think Dulan is a fine choice for a Russ tale as it gives Russ the chance to interact with an equally stubborn and warlike brother. Neither does the end-result cause Russ to lose face or whatnot. He gets KTFOed while laughing, so he was never really "bested". I suppose the Lion managed to disarm him earlier on, but Primarch fights are always teetering on a blade's edge, so it's just another close contest.

[Gongsun Zan]

Curious as to those ranking Fulgrim so highly - I read this a year ago, and I barely remember anything outside of Fulgrim's conversations with the Remembrancer. I felt the other legionnaires were pretty forgettable, and the political intrigue and plotting was rather pedestrian. Did I completely miss something on my read-through? 

[Indefragable]

Curious as to those ranking Fulgrim so highly - I read this a year ago, and I barely remember anything outside of Fulgrim's conversations with the Remembrancer. I felt the other legionnaires were pretty forgettable, and the political intrigue and plotting was rather pedestrian. Did I completely miss something on my read-through?

For me, Fulgrim is the “best” of the Primarchs books so far because it shows what could have been.

 

We all know Fulgrim as an arrogant preening :cuss and even his fanboys will admit that’s kinda why they like him. This book shows him while he still has work to do and the fact that what we will come to know as arrogance and a never ending quest for perfection are in the early days a conscious, concerted, and necessary drive to catch up. Fulgrim is dealt a bad hand when it comes to his Legion: they are in a horrendous shape when he takes over, hopelessly behind in terms of numbers and means of increasing those numbers. So what does he do? He creates a culture of doing more with less. Nothing less Jan perfection will be accepted because anything less than perfect is failure when the stakes are that high. It’s downright admirable if we don’t know where kings eventually end up...

 

...fast forward to the main event depicted in this book and it’s about Fulgrim trying to do things the right way. He wants it to go peaceably, he wants to save lives, he wants to better the galaxy by doing so (actually remarks about that at one point). Heck, he even struggles with how to uplift the downtrodden common citizenry while knowing the surest path to a peaceful transition is to coddle the nobility and assure them that their plantations and hereditary rights will not go away.

 

It’s all good stuff, especially seeing his courtroom diplomatic intrigues can be just as useful as drop pods when it comes to Compliance.

 

And when the bolt shells eventually start flying, it could be seen as an eye-rolling 40k need to always have some sort of action even when the alternative would have been more intriguing (see the Magnus book)...but instead it feels tragic. That despite the most charming and aristocratic of the Primarchs’ attempts to win folks over with the olive branch, the human race will always inevitably seek a violent death for just a few table scraps more. In later years Fulgrim batting aside assassination attempts Jedi-style would be seen as the height of arrogance. This early on, it’s seen as a tearful pleading attempt to find a peaceful way forward no matter what.

 

Let all that sink in as you think about snake-Fulgrim’s prurient diversions in the garden of Slaanesh.

 

Look upon what could have been ye travelers, and weep.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'm hoping the Alpharius book deals with the "Ghost Legion", before their true Founding. That, and that it's printed in invisible ink.

 

EDIT: That, or every 20th copy is just the Guilliman story with Alpharius' name instead of Guilliman.

[Kelborn]

Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa related posts moved into the appropiate thread.

[b1soul]

Yup, Primarch on Primarch interaction, when done well, is a fascinating. The best part about the Russ novella is when he butts heads with the Lion.

[bluntblade]

It depends, really. You can have characters seen largely or wholly through the eyes of a POV who are still fascinating.

 

Also we've seen some authors get into a Primarch's head and fail to convince us that we're looking at a superhuman genius.

[Indefragable]

Some of the best scenes in the series are when Fulgrim reflects on how some of his brothers were supportive while “the 2nd” was tight lipped (The juiciest of morsel that still doesn’t spoil the mystery of it all) and when Khan, Magnus, and Sanguinius have a sit down to come up with the Librarius project.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Aww, now I really wanna 'read' Fulgrim. I've listened to the whole series on Audible, but Fulgrim still isn't on there.

[StrangerOrders]

Aww, now I really wanna 'read' Fulgrim. I've listened to the whole series on Audible, but Fulgrim still isn't on there.

Will save you the trouble there, I spent almost a year looking for it after it got taken off (it was on there at one point) on every version of Audible and even tried emailing.

 

GW retracted the right to it for some odd reason and about the only place where you can find the audiobook is the BL shop.

 

I really needed to read it for something so I ponied up, I'll be honest it was worth it in terms of quality.

 

I don't see it ever going back to Audible though, which is a shame given that I think that is the reason why many haven't read it.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

 

Aww, now I really wanna 'read' Fulgrim. I've listened to the whole series on Audible, but Fulgrim still isn't on there.

Will save you the trouble there, I spent almost a year looking for it after it got taken off (it was on there at one point) on every version of Audible and even tried emailing.

 

GW retracted the right to it for some odd reason and about the only place where you can find the audiobook is the BL shop.

 

I really needed to read it for something so I ponied up, I'll be honest it was worth it in terms of quality.

 

I don't see it ever going back to Audible though, which is a shame given that I think that is the reason why many haven't read it.

Thank you. I think this is one of those circumstances where the death of hope can bring resolution. I'll just buy it. Once I get the courage to finish Curze, it actually makes me a little anxious to listen to it!

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

Aww, now I really wanna 'read' Fulgrim. I've listened to the whole series on Audible, but Fulgrim still isn't on there.

Will save you the trouble there, I spent almost a year looking for it after it got taken off (it was on there at one point) on every version of Audible and even tried emailing.

 

GW retracted the right to it for some odd reason and about the only place where you can find the audiobook is the BL shop.

 

I really needed to read it for something so I ponied up, I'll be honest it was worth it in terms of quality.

 

I don't see it ever going back to Audible though, which is a shame given that I think that is the reason why many haven't read it.

Thank you. I think this is one of those circumstances where the death of hope can bring resolution. I'll just buy it. Once I get the courage to finish Curze, it actually makes me a little anxious to listen to it!

 

Its definitely worth it but I would feel bad if I didnt give you a head's up that it is an extremely atypical book.

 

The synopsis is very much Fulgrim showing that you can take a world (mostly) peacefully, so it mostly a political drama focuing on the soul and struggles of the Third before their fall. It is not an action heavy book and Reynolds has always favored making the Crusade plausible (which of course entails making Astartes truly the demigods they are hyped as and showing imperial soldiers and politicians as exceptional), so it can be very much against taste if those arent your things. 

 

I deeply loved it but no one should walk into that book expecting a conventional story, you honestly end up regretting the action scenes more than being excited for them to be frank. 

 

The book (along with the Fabius books) also retroactively made me like alot of other books less because it makes the previously acceptable 1-Dimensional nature of the EC somewhat egregious, so it can definitely be one of those books that takes the fun away from others, which you have to consider before going in. The EC in these books are a tragic and deeply broken Legion that are buckling under pressures they have worked hard to hide long before the magic sword, with a surprising amount of humanity and empathy for common people. Even Fabius balances his cold cruelty with a sort of bizarrely humanitarian outlook on the world. It can particularly sour the Fulgrim Horus Heresy book.

 

So I would recommend it only with the addendum to not expect the usual and to be ready to dislike other things more if you end up liking it. 

[Jareddm]

So you're saying it raises the bar for what we should expect of EC characterization? Good.

[TorvaldTheMild]

I've only read Angron's and Russ' so far, but Angron's was so good in my opinion.  

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Actually, StrangerOrders. I think it's the non-battle sections of the books I enjoy the most. It's why I found Vulkan's a bit lacklustre, there was just too much fighting and not a lot of insight. (I learnt more about him in Vulkan Lives and even TBA). The same could be said about Guilliman's, the focus was too much on the battle going on. Not an insight into Guilliman. Perhaps this was because it was the first book in the series, and they hadn't quite worked out what they wanted to achieve from them. 

 

Conversely, I enjoyed Magnus because of the underlying mystery about the colony ship and the psychic influence of its occupants upon the populace. It was something different from the battle focussed norm. The same could be said for Angron. The battles planetside were secondary to what was going on in the fleet, and inside Angron's head. 

 

So if anything, I now want to read/listen to Fulgrim even more!

[Indefragable]

@Brother Adelard I think Magnus’ would have been so much higher on my list if there was no combat at all in it.

 

It started off so intriguing with the idea of Astartes in a humanitarian evacuation mission. I can’t help but wonder if some editor was like “but this is 40k! We MUST have bolters firing or else we can’t publish it!” So McNeill was forced to contrive of the “enemies” to be fought.

[bluntblade]

I do love the idea of a Primarch book which is simply one big battle or campaign, and uses that to effectively show you a heap of stuff about the Primarch and Legion. But I really don't know if we're likely to get one in the mould which really works.