"Astartes Soup" <<Best Chapter Combinations>>

[L30n1d4s]

First off, I want to compliment GW for what an outstanding job they have done incentivizing players to either 1) Use all Space Marine armies via the introduction of Combat Tactics  or 2)  Use all <Specific Chapter> armies with the new Supplements and the "bonus" rules they give for keeping your army pure White Scars, or pure Ultramarines, or pure <Specific Successor Chapter>.

 

This really gives players who want to play "fluffy" all-Astartes lists, or even single-Chapter lists, a chance in the competitive scene against the Imperial Soup forces that cherry-pick the very best/most efficient units across multiple armies to get the "optimized" tournament list. Well done, GW, you really hit the target on the nose with these rules here, incentivizing both fluff and competitive lists all at once!

 

 

Having said that, and as more Supplements come out following the initial White Scars/Ultramarine releases, I wonder how often players will take an "Astartes Task Force" made up of two to three detachments, each with a different Chapter? While you lose the faction specific rules like "Scions of Guilliman" or "Devastating Charge" (which are obviously very big rules to lose), you still keep the baseline Combat Doctrines, you still get access to all the Stratagems, WL Traits, Relics (unless you are a Successor Chapter), and Psychic Powers, and you also get to take advantage of multiple different "flavors" of Space Marines to make your army is the most effective it can be on the Tabletop.

 

 

For example, I have been considering an army that looks like the following:

 

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ULTRAMARINES Battalion

-Marneus Calgar (Warlord)

-Chaplain Cassius

-Apothecary (with "Seal of Oath" Relic)

-10 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles

-2 x 5 Tactical Marines with HB

-5 Centurions with Grav/HBs

 

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WHITE SCARS Battalion

-JP Captain (with "Plume of the Plains Runner" Relic)

-JP Librarian (with +2" to Charge and ignore Overwatch Psychic Powers)

-3 x CCW/BP Scouts

-8 Vanguard with TH/SS

 

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GHOST DRAGONS (Ultramarine Successor Chapter with "Long-Range Marksmen" and "Hungry for Battle" Traits) Vanguard Detachment

-Lieutenant with Combi-Flamer

-2 x Company Champions

-7 x Sternguard with Combi-Flamers

-Drop Pod

 

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Obviously, I miss out on the "Scions of Guilliman" and " Devastating Charge" rules, as I mentioned above, but I think the "multi-tool" diversity an army like this brings is pretty hard to beat....

 

i.e. The Ultramarines provide a solid mobile gun line/"Anvil" force anchored around Calgar, Cassius, and the Centurions, the White Scars give a potent Deep Strike Assault/"Hammer" force that can get a very reliable charge starting turn 2, and the Ghost Dragons provide a "scalpel" type force in the form of a Turn 1 Drop Pod, 8 Flamer Templates with 11" range, and two Company Champions to beat up on enemy backfield characters and shooty units. On top of this, you have 16 CP (start with 15, due to extra Relic on the White Scars JP Captain) and can potentially regenerate up to 6 CP, thanks to Calgar's WL Trait, so plenty of "fuel" for the Stratagem machine all game long.

 

 

So, what about everyone else? Any of you all planning on trying (or even have already tried out) a mixed "Astartes Soup" style army like this?

[MARK0SIAN]

Why would you miss out on Scions of Guilliman. My understanding was that doctrines would apply if all the detachments were from Codex Space Marines. Have I misunderstood it?

[Marshal van Trapp]

Why would you miss out on Scions of Guilliman. My understanding was that doctrines would apply if all the detachments were from Codex Space Marines. Have I misunderstood it?

Indeed you have, it's not a detachment rule it's an army rule, if all the models in your ARMY have the ULTRAMARINES keyword or are from an ultramarine successor then you get scions but the above example would not because of the white scars detachment

 

That said I dont know if the little extra utility you get from the WS detachment is worth losing scions! It's kind of a big loss for such little gain

[MARK0SIAN]

 

Why would you miss out on Scions of Guilliman. My understanding was that doctrines would apply if all the detachments were from Codex Space Marines. Have I misunderstood it?

Indeed you have, it's not a detachment rule it's an army rule, if all the models in your ARMY have the ULTRAMARINES keyword or are from an ultramarine successor then you get scions but the above example would not because of the white scars detachment

 

That said I dont know if the little extra utility you get from the WS detachment is worth losing scions! It's kind of a big loss for such little gain

Thanks for the clarification :)

 

In that case I agree, I wouldn’t lose the benefits of scions just to get the white scars detachment.

[L30n1d4s]

Well, it is not so much the WS detachment by itself, it is the capability it offers.... with the unique WS Relic and Psychic Powers, you can have those Vanguard Vets add +3" to their charge range when they DS in (so, effectively, 6" charge vice 9" charge), are immune to Overwatch (Tau will hate this), and you can also use another Strat to let them roll 3D6 and pick the highest two dice for their charge distance.... basically, you can almost guarantee their charge after DS, which is amazing (just ask BA players).

On top of this, WS have another Strat that let's the Vanguard Vets consolidate 6 + D6" instead of the normal 3".... this is crazy good, as it means that you can destroy a unit on the same turn you DS (thanks to 25 TH attacks), then consolidate an average of 9"!!! into enemy lines, further tying up key shooting units and, if you need to, you can spend 3CP to fight again and smash a second enemy unit in that same turn you arrived from Reserve.... I am sure you get the idea, but against enemy gunline "castles" (like Tau, Guard, Necrons, other Astartes, certain kinds of Orks and Eldar, etc.) this can be absolutely game-changing. While "Scions of Guilliman" is super powerful, I think in the hands of a skilled player this can rival it in terms of lethality and applying asymmetric strengths against your opponent's weaknesses.

[Marshal van Trapp]

The only issue I can see is if you charge then you would have to declare the consolidation target as a charge target too or else you cant use the fight again strat to hit them

[L30n1d4s]

True, but you don't even need to use "Honour the Chapter" to fight again; you can just destroy one unit, Consolidate 6+D6" into another unit, and tie it up from shooting (also, potentially prevent the enemy from shooting you, especially if you can "tri-point" the unit you consolidated into and so deny it the ability to fall back)... next turn, you just use White Scar Chapter Tactics to Fall Back and either charge the same unit again (getting the +1A from Shock Assault), or charge another unit even deeper in the enemy DZ... basically, you can "bowling ball" your way through the enemy lines, especially if you are able to survive any enemy counter-attacks with a combination of your 3++ saves and Transhuman Physiology (i.e. makes the Vanguard Vets only wounded on rolls of 4+, no matter how strong the weapon).

[Lemondish]

 

Why would you miss out on Scions of Guilliman. My understanding was that doctrines would apply if all the detachments were from Codex Space Marines. Have I misunderstood it?

Indeed you have, it's not a detachment rule it's an army rule, if all the models in your ARMY have the ULTRAMARINES keyword or are from an ultramarine successor then you get scions but the above example would not because of the white scars detachment

 

That said I dont know if the little extra utility you get from the WS detachment is worth losing scions! It's kind of a big loss for such little gain

 

 

I'm not so sure. 

 

The White Scars psychic discipline is still in play with that Detachment, provided they bring a Librarian, right? That thing is miles ahead of the Indomitus or Librarius disciplines. Plus you unlock all those tasty stratagems. 

 

I think those bonuses are better than a tad more mobility from some units. 

[One Two Wolf]

Casting MoH on a character like Murderfang could be interesting. It would yield 9 attacks hitting on 2's at S14 -3 3D rerolling wounds, yes please. Could be worth a patrol detachment with a libby just to try it out. And given that we wolfies have not a lot to lose from taking some chums along atm (someone needs to show the rest how proper fisticuffs is done as well don't forget) it's a win win - unless I have missed something and that power can't be used on him?

[MajorNese]

Casting MoH on a character like Murderfang could be interesting. It would yield 9 attacks hitting on 2's at S14 -3 3D rerolling wounds, yes please. Could be worth a patrol detachment with a libby just to try it out. And given that we wolfies have not a lot to lose from taking some chums along atm (someone needs to show the rest how proper fisticuffs is done as well don't forget) it's a win win - unless I have missed something and that power can't be used on him?

Yes, you missed something - it's locked to <Chapter> units.

Keywords are there for exactly that reason - to block some cross codex combos like that. Those were already running rampant in 7th edition, part of what made it a total mess.

[One Two Wolf]

Too many crazy combos being considered, getting carried away...