Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 SPOILER ABOUT ANCIENT HUMANITY ETC mainly read from master of mankind. I’m wondering if anywhere it says how NEPAL / why this is? I have been interested in crust displacement lately, something which is said to drop continents within a day (that’s a long story and happy to discuss!) Is this the reason given? Considering it occurs every 12k year’s or so it’d be lucky not to have completely destroyed it but has done other cities. Just wondering if anyone is lored up on this!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 What city? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 What city? Nepal, they walk past it on the way to the gate and the peaks of the Himalayas. Etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Nepal is a country and also not under the Imperial Palace. The Imperial Palace is in the north east of the Tibetan plateau. Nepal is actually only a small section of the palace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 There's no such thing as dropping a continent in a day, that would be Atlantis based nonsense. Charles Hapgood published a book on pole shift a few years before modern plate tectonics came and invalidated it and later writers have been recycling his claims with no new evidence but various new coats of paint ever since. Due to continental drift the Himalayas are rising by about 5mm a year which in 28,000 years would be 140 meters but that would just make the peaks higher not sink a city on the side of anything. Cities can end up underground due to earthquakes, pyroclastic flows and more simple land and mudslides. The city of Helike on the Gulf of Corinth sank into the sea within (the source of most lost continent stories) Plato's lifetime due to an earthquake, its just a thing that happens from time to time to vulnerable locations. The street level in cities that have been occupied for thousands of years like Rome and London have risen by many meters due to a wide variety of reasons none of them to do with the earth's crust. Old Prague is underground in modern Prague because they literally built a new city on top of the old streets at one point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 There's no such thing as dropping a continent in a day, that would be Atlantis based nonsense. Charles Hapgood published a book on pole shift a few years before modern plate tectonics came and invalidated it and later writers have been recycling his claims with no new evidence but various new coats of paint ever since. Due to continental drift the Himalayas are rising by about 5mm a year which in 28,000 years would be 140 meters but that would just make the peaks higher not sink a city on the side of anything. Cities can end up underground due to earthquakes, pyroclastic flows and more simple land and mudslides. The city of Helike on the Gulf of Corinth sank into the sea within (the source of most lost continent stories) Plato's lifetime due to an earthquake, its just a thing that happens from time to time to vulnerable locations. The street level in cities that have been occupied for thousands of years like Rome and London have risen by many meters due to a wide variety of reasons none of them to do with the earth's crust. Old Prague is underground in modern Prague because they literally built a new city on top of the old streets at one point. Yes he mentions Nepal, I am sure it was that or Tibet I can’t remember off the top of my head, maybe you know better? Lol you know about as much as me. Don’t dismiss what could always be possible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Nepal is mentioned several times, and it is to the south of the main setting of the Lost and the Damned, beyond the walls of Palace. The capital of Nepal is Kathmandu, which is mentioned in some Heresy novels, as is Dwalghiri and Annapurna. They aren't under the Imperial Palace though. This map should help https://imgur.com/gallery/lUi7Sh5 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 TBF, there is a passage in Master of Mankind - in the chapter Labyrinth - where Diocletian tells Zephon that the ruined city they are passing, on the way to the Imperial Dungeon, was once the capital of Nepal... Considering the setting is 30,000 years in the future, and have tens of thousands of years of apocalyptic warfare with all sorts of arcane, world altering weaponry, it isn't that unreasonable that the Himalayas have sunk and crumbled a bit. And thats before a continent sized palace was built on top of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Nepal is mentioned several times, and it is to the south of the main setting of the Lost and the Damned, beyond the walls of Palace. The capital of Nepal is Kathmandu, which is mentioned in some Heresy novels, as is Dwalghiri and Annapurna. They aren't under the Imperial Palace though. This map should help https://imgur.com/gallery/lUi7Sh5 That’s the city yes! Jeez where’d you find that one? Its basically like walking under ground for ages. I had in my mind a long path under the palace, thanks for the info!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 TBF, there is a passage in Master of Mankind - in the chapter Labyrinth - where Diocletian tells Zephon that the ruined city they are passing, on the way to the Imperial Dungeon, was once the capital of Nepal... Considering the setting is 30,000 years in the future, and have tens of thousands of years of apocalyptic warfare with all sorts of arcane, world altering weaponry, it isn't that unreasonable that the Himalayas have sunk and crumbled a bit. And thats before a continent sized palace was built on top of them. Yeah I think he blew them up a bit too, who knows then, I’d love some more info. Plus you have the whole wars with men of iron and all sorts of cataclysms they wouldn’t know about or mention. There’s also lots of warp psychic stuff too so I suppose it’s open to anything Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 TBF, there is a passage in Master of Mankind - in the chapter Labyrinth - where Diocletian tells Zephon that the ruined city they are passing, on the way to the Imperial Dungeon, was once the capital of Nepal... Considering the setting is 30,000 years in the future, and have tens of thousands of years of apocalyptic warfare with all sorts of arcane, world altering weaponry, it isn't that unreasonable that the Himalayas have sunk and crumbled a bit. And thats before a continent sized palace was built on top of them. Or it's Lhasa or another Tibetan city and they believe it is Kathmandu. OR, this one isnt as fun, but they decided where the Palace was afterADB finished his book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 TBF, there is a passage in Master of Mankind - in the chapter Labyrinth - where Diocletian tells Zephon that the ruined city they are passing, on the way to the Imperial Dungeon, was once the capital of Nepal... Considering the setting is 30,000 years in the future, and have tens of thousands of years of apocalyptic warfare with all sorts of arcane, world altering weaponry, it isn't that unreasonable that the Himalayas have sunk and crumbled a bit. And thats before a continent sized palace was built on top of them. Or it's Lhasa or another Tibetan city and they believe it is Kathmandu. OR, this one isnt as fun, but they decided where the Palace was afterADB finished his book. Haha poor ADB. It’s a great book though, the water bit is cool as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 TBF, there is a passage in Master of Mankind - in the chapter Labyrinth - where Diocletian tells Zephon that the ruined city they are passing, on the way to the Imperial Dungeon, was once the capital of Nepal... Considering the setting is 30,000 years in the future, and have tens of thousands of years of apocalyptic warfare with all sorts of arcane, world altering weaponry, it isn't that unreasonable that the Himalayas have sunk and crumbled a bit. And thats before a continent sized palace was built on top of them. Or it's Lhasa or another Tibetan city and they believe it is Kathmandu. OR, this one isnt as fun, but they decided where the Palace was afterADB finished his book. Look, all I've ever wanted is a detailed schematic of how the Imperial Palace works and where exactly everything is, and this conjecture does not will me with confidence that such a think will ever appear* (*you're probably right though) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 And thats where that train of discussion ends. Keep it about 30/40k, not the CIA or whatever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 And thats where that train of discussion ends. Keep it about 30/40k, not the CIA or whatever. Yeah exactly, il be honest I didn’t read pretty much any of that. I think I made it pretty clear when I was asking about lore in 30/40k! Maybe the CIA are working for the dark gods? Kathmandu is about 1400m above sea level? So to get that far below over 40k years must’ve had some disruptions. I guess there isn’t any lore explaining it..yet! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I feel like it's meant to be unknowable. A textbook exercise in Lovecraftian mystery, which raises mostly unsettling questions. I seem to recall instances of this in Skyrim too. And also to communicate how far in the future this is. Wraight gets into similar territory in Carrion Throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 I feel like it's meant to be unknowable. A textbook exercise in Lovecraftian mystery, which raises mostly unsettling questions. I seem to recall instances of this in Skyrim too. And also to communicate how far in the future this is. Wraight gets into similar territory in Carrion Throne. Yes a bit like why the 2 primarchs are ‘redacted from records’ just open to guess why. Who can know, 40’000 years I’d be surprised if we are still about anyway Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5378520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Well, the Missing Primarchs are a somewhat different issue, but the buried city clearly follows in the footsteps of things like The Nameless City. It's very much a cosmic horror trope, designed to cause unease (though I suppose one could make that argument for the Lost and Forgotten) because so much of the setting is unknowable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5379669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Someone a while back did go to the trouble of georeferencing the map of the imperial palace that appeared in the Custodes codex, did a decent job: https://i.redd.it/ibl7vr1tz2531.jpg You can compare to a map showing where Kathmandu is and it definitely puts more of Tibet under the palace's footprint than Nepal. Kathmandu is somewhere to the south, actually outside the bounds (and obviously underground, somehow, as with the webway entrance) of the palace. I'm sure there's ways to rationalise it post-hoc - it was a long trek underground - but it's absolutely a case of the production team not checking with/corresponding with ADB or checking against Master of Mankind; that's how GW works most of the time anyway. I can get why they went with this layout though, as a cartographic visual the sharp increase in elevation going north from Nepal is pretty compelling. Who knows, might be the type of little contradiction FW addresses in a later black book. They make good work out of this sort of thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5379843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Does that book get into why they built the palace there? I mean, I'm betting back when they were brain storming all the background and were mixing Warhammer fantasy with dune and everything else they had watched or read, they probably were just like "well it would be too on the nose to put the Imperial Capital in Britain, and to hell with those rebel colonists, it won't be there, let's go with the hardest place to have a massive building project" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5396979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I don’t think theyve mentioned North America once in any of the Heresy novels or Black Books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5396989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwrath121 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I don’t think theyve mentioned North America once in any of the Heresy novels or Black Books."Neork" (New York) is mentioned as a major city in Lost and the Damned, funnily enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5396997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I don’t think theyve mentioned North America once in any of the Heresy novels or Black Books. Yeah I imagine that it goes something like "those damnable colonial rebel scum were all killed by nuclear fire" and "it's just a giant litter box, nobody lives there, nothing happens." All the legions pull from other countries or Sol system planets. I mean, it's a British property, I get it. Though it would have been on the nose if a couple of traitor legions came from what was the US and India. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5397134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 30K is set 28,000 years from now. 28,000 years ago, humanity was only just producing the first ceramics (like the Venus of Dolní Věstonice), as far as we can tell from the archaeological record. The oldest archaeological find at Kathmandu is only 2,000 years old or so. It's perfectly plausible that between now and 30K, the current city of Kathmandu could be destroyed and a second city named Kathmandu could be built elsewhere, or that Lhasa could be conquered and renamed Kathmandu due to centuries of geopolitical change, or that a Himalayan hive city named Kathmandu-Lhasa could sprawl out across the 605km of distance and 2km of elevation between the two places then shrink into a smaller city that is closer to where Lhasa was but only retained the first part of the name. Or, as others have said, it's Lhasa or some other city, and they just don't have accurate records of the name anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5397154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I don’t think theyve mentioned North America once in any of the Heresy novels or Black Books. Horus' memorialist - Petronella Vivar if memory serves - came from Merica. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358075-why-is-a-certain-city-so-deep-with-the-earth/#findComment-5397257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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