Having Trouble with my Local Group

[Iain_Stormeyes]

Hey all, want to ask for some list-building advice.  For the purposes of this thread, you can assume I have the unit you recommend, since I have just about everything in our codex at this point.

 

My local group is getting very annoyed with Wulfen, particularly since Shock Assault became a thing.  My opponents, hobbyists, and even the store manager have commented on my using 2 units of Hammer/Shield Wulfen, and I don't want to become "That Guy" but I also don't want to take a list with the intent to lose.  Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

A list I am toying with is:

 

Battalion

 

Harald Deathwolf (188) Warlord

Rune Priest (124) Jump Pack, Armor of Russ

Intercessors (85)

Intercessors (85)

Intercessors (85)

 

Outrider

 

Canis Wolfborn (125)

Inceptors (135)

Thunderwolf Cavalry (182) Hammer x2, Shield x3, Chainsword

Thunderwolf Cavalry (182) Hammer x2, Shield x3, Chainsword

 

Spearhead

 

Bjorn (234) Twin lascannon

Wolf Guard battle Leader (60)

Predator (180) Autocannon, Lascannon x2

Predator (180) Autocannon, Lascannon x2

Long Fangs (150) Missile Launcher x4

 

Thoughts? Advice?  Ways to avoid spamming Storm Shields but survive?

[Wispy]

i don't see a problem, space wolves have the least competitive in the meta.

 

by all means mix things up for diplomacy's sake abd drop a squad of wulfen but you're not doing anything wrong.

[PeteySödes]

First of all, thats super cute that they think your OP, well done! I dont think you need to overthink it though. If the Wulfen are the big bad either reduce them to 1 unit or sub them for a fluffier unit.

 

2 units isnt really spam but honestly they shouldnt really complain about 1 if you just subbed one out. I think you have the right idea though with Twolves as a fun CC choice. Be aware though I certainly find them better for chaff clear vs the wulfen large model beatstick.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

First of all, thats super cute that they think your OP, well done! I dont think you need to overthink it though. If the Wulfen are the big bad either reduce them to 1 unit or sub them for a fluffier unit.

 

2 units isnt really spam but honestly they shouldnt really complain about 1 if you just subbed one out. I think you have the right idea though with Twolves as a fun CC choice. Be aware though I certainly find them better for chaff clear vs the wulfen large model beatstick.

Thanks!  I think that with TWC and expensive named HQ's, my list should be a better match.  Though, the Marines player will probably just complain that they are T5 instead of T4.

[PeteySödes]

 

 

First of all, thats super cute that they think your OP, well done! I dont think you need to overthink it though. If the Wulfen are the big bad either reduce them to 1 unit or sub them for a fluffier unit.

 

2 units isnt really spam but honestly they shouldnt really complain about 1 if you just subbed one out. I think you have the right idea though with Twolves as a fun CC choice. Be aware though I certainly find them better for chaff clear vs the wulfen large model beatstick.

Thanks! I think that with TWC and expensive named HQ's, my list should be a better match. Though, the Marines player will probably just complain that they are T5 instead of T4.

Yikes the complaining is coming from a marine player?? Oooookay I guess.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

 

Yikes the complaining is coming from a marine player?? Oooookay I guess.

 

Yeah.  But it doesn't help that I can roll 3+ saves and then 5+ feel no pains like nothing, and he rolls like garbage.  But thats just him, there are others in the store who have mentioned my "Wulfen crutch."

[GrinNfool]

Hmm not sure you can be "that guy" with space wolves currently... but if your local meta is full of people who are pure hobbyists with no consideration for list building you might have to tone down what you bring.  I know I consider my opponents before selecting my army, as some are almost purely hobby driven, and there is no point if I bring things even sorta good. as it will be a train wreck of a game for them. 

 

Don't look at is "trying to lose" look at it as a chance to bring units you wouldn't normally get to bring, and view it as a challenge to win with a list you might consider weak.  Try dropping at least 1 wulfen unit see how it goes, if you are still winning handily then start substituting for less and less optimal units.  Eventually you should find a sweet spot that your opponent is getting kills.  If that means showing up with an army of bloodclaws, chainswords and rhinos so be it lol.

 

I generally find people enjoy the game as long as they are making you pick models up off the table.  They tend to find it less enjoyable when they spend an entire round and don't kill or at least seriously injure a unit.

[Wispy]

if he still complains might be time to take issue with his attitude. "I play an noncompetitive army and even mixed up my list for you, maybe the problem is you."

[ranulf the revenant]

What armies are the others fielding?

[Slave to Darkness]

Tell them to get good and learn their armies. Your list isnt OP, your just playing bad gamers. 

[PeteySödes]

I don’t want to keep being a salty dog here, all the advice above is great, but I think if I got jabs like “wulfen crutch” with a straight face I would find a different opponent.

 

Or if they are as bad as they seem, beat the pulp out of them without wulfen, drop the mic then find new opponents. :P

[Iain_Stormeyes]

Hmm not sure you can be "that guy" with space wolves currently... but if your local meta is full of people who are pure hobbyists with no consideration for list building you might have to tone down what you bring.  I know I consider my opponents before selecting my army, as some are almost purely hobby driven, and there is no point if I bring things even sorta good. as it will be a train wreck of a game for them. 

 

Don't look at is "trying to lose" look at it as a chance to bring units you wouldn't normally get to bring, and view it as a challenge to win with a list you might consider weak.  Try dropping at least 1 wulfen unit see how it goes, if you are still winning handily then start substituting for less and less optimal units.  Eventually you should find a sweet spot that your opponent is getting kills.  If that means showing up with an army of bloodclaws, chainswords and rhinos so be it lol.

 

I generally find people enjoy the game as long as they are making you pick models up off the table.  They tend to find it less enjoyable when they spend an entire round and don't kill or at least seriously injure a unit.

That's what this list is trying to do, bring things that can die, but still put up a fight so that my opponent doesn't feel cheated of a game.  They are good guys, just frustrated that I have a high win rate.

 

What armies are the others fielding?

Space marines and Genestealers/Tyrannids.  The Eldar player who whoops my ass has been traveling a lot this summer, so the guys haven't seen me lose much.

 

I don’t want to keep being a salty dog here, all the advice above is great, but I think if I got jabs like “wulfen crutch” with a straight face I would find a different opponent.

 

Or if they are as bad as they seem, beat the pulp out of them without wulfen, drop the mic then find new opponents.

Nah, they are good guys, but they get frustrated when after 4 rounds of shooting from the new Space marine codex, I still have Wulfen left on the table.  

 

I can't beat the pulp out of them.  Most games I feel like I am barely staying ahead, but nobody seems to care about the turn-by-turn, only the final result.

[NightHowler]

<hears someone say “they’re good guys” and suddenly tries to hide enormous dread-sock behind back>

 

Sounds like you guys have this. Nothing for me to add really.

 

<slowly backs out of the room>

[Yoyo ninja]

Wulfen ain't all that hard to bring down. I loose mine every game. Just sounds like salty opponents.

[Dark Shepherd]

Wulfen ain't all that hard to bring down. I loose mine every game. Just sounds like salty opponents.

They still have to get across the board first as well

[Ratherdashing]

I'm the kind of guy who has a really bad time if things are going poorly for my opponent, so it can be really tough playing someone who stubbornly tries the same thing over and over again. People get emotionally attached to a tactic so they double down on it instead of saying, "hey, this isn't working". People know Wulfen hit hard so they become convinced that every weapon needs to be trained on them, even weapons that are not designed to kill Wulfen. For some armies it might be better just to ignore them: Wulfen ignored can be really dangerous but if you kill everything else even Wulfen can't carry a whole match.

 

None of this is helpful advice, but at least I can say, I've been there. Even people who are generally good sports can end up being no fun to play against because they refuse to change their tactics or adapt to what you bring. I write bad lists but I always try to play at my very best and I want my opponent to do the same. The only advice I can give is what the others have said: try a challenge like a list you know is less ideal or set yourself a goal like completing a Saga. You don't have to reign in your skill, nor should you, against a bad player (which I have to assume anyone saying SW are OP is to some extent). But I think the best way to play a game between two people of different skill levels is to focus more on cool stuff that happens during the game then on who wins in the end.

[TiguriusX]

i just have to join in the laughter sorry.

 

I am active in a fairly hard core competitive ITC scene.

 

Space Wolves are generally considered a bottom 2 army barely a notch above grey knights (subjective evidence).

 

Tournament statistics show we perform horrendously as a faction (objective evidence).

 

Wulfen are one of our few good units but they are not OP.

 

i wish i were a fly on the wall during one of your sessions.

[Bryan Blaire]

You may want to see if they want to play some narrative events or something, maybe even a campaign, rather than what sounds like Matched Play store pick-up games or tournament prep games. Your store members may find those more enjoyable, and a narrative might allow you to "tone down" your side of the game match without "trying to lose" while giving your opponent a little boost (such as an extra slot or two of something, or breaking the "Rule of 3" people get hung up on) and encouraging them to try some new tactics to complete a mission.

 

It may help if you preface the suggestion with something like "I'd really like to try some new things with my army, and I think they'd be really cool to use in some sort of chain of story games, where.." (and then fill in the story idea with whatever you think they might find enjoyable to play, possibly something that puts your army on the back foot).

[Bulwyf]

You can't be "That Guy" and play a Space Wolves army. I've played this game since Rogue Trader and 8th has the Space Wolves the weakest they have ever been. I would literally laugh in the face of someone accusing me of being "That Guy" for taking our only truly good unit in Wulfen in a list.

 

If you want to still have Wulfen but still have a hard hitting list try my Space Wolf Dread list.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [31 PL, 563pts] ++

+ HQ +

Logan Grimnar [9 PL, 170pts]: Warlord

Njal Stormcaller [7 PL, 138pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 3. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [35 PL, 565pts] ++

+ HQ +

Rune Priest [6 PL, 108pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Plasma pistol, Psychic hood, Runic staff

+ Elites +

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 147pts]
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe, Storm bolter

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [52 PL, 871pts] ++

+ HQ +

Wolf Priest [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt pistol, The Armour of Russ

+ Elites +

Dreadnought [7 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 170pts]: 2x Twin autocannon

Wulfen [11 PL, 227pts]
. 4x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

+ Flyer +

Stormwolf [16 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [118 PL, 1,999pts] ++

 

 

I am now 7-1 with this list. The opposing player has so many high value targets that you really, really make it hard for them to deal with your list. The Stormwolf with the Wulfen squad and WP and RP create havoc where you need them to drop. The Intercessors grab objectives and stay there. The rest of the army moves together in one big ball o' death where Logan gives rerolls to all misses in shooting and combat.

 

Trust me, it hurts. I've actually not used it every game now because it hits so hard esp. now with Wulfen getting the extra attack. Some of my local opponents have literally asked me not to bring this list because of how hard it is deal with. Give it a shot and see how they like it.