Alpha legion berzerkers are good?

[Mcha0s92]

I find it difficult to make room for them in my lists after codex 2.0, are you guys still using them in alpha legion lists? If so you footslog them with forward operatives or you use a rhino?

[TorvaldTheMild]

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game.  Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo.  I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

[Mcha0s92]

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game. Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo. I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

I mean that i have many different choices now and i usually plan to play a lord discordant and 3 maulerfiend as my cc threat(with the vigilus detachment) while the rest of the list is more of a firebase

[Khornate individual]

They were way better before the errata that changed infiltration.  Starting berzerkers 9" away from the enemy was great just for the look on your opponents face and the quick cc.  I painted a unit of ten with "galaxy blue" color change paint for a small alpha legion detatchment with a chaos lord, but now they collect dust, thanks errata

[Hannibal]

 

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game. Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo. I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

I mean that i have many different choices now and i usually plan to play a lord discordant and 3 maulerfiend as my cc threat(with the vigilus detachment) while the rest of the list is more of a firebase

 

 

I´ll run 2 Lords Discordant, a Venomcrawler and a Rhino with 2 units of 5 Berzerkers instead. Simply because I own the models and because I think that Daemon engines with just ONE Lord Discordant is a trap. Your opponent gets first turn, shoots Lord Disco to death and suddenly your Daemon engines loose their support. Don´t like that.

[Mcha0s92]

 

 

 

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game. Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo. I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

I mean that i have many different choices now and i usually plan to play a lord discordant and 3 maulerfiend as my cc threat(with the vigilus detachment) while the rest of the list is more of a firebase

I´ll run 2 Lords Discordant, a Venomcrawler and a Rhino with 2 units of 5 Berzerkers instead. Simply because I own the models and because I think that Daemon engines with just ONE Lord Discordant is a trap. Your opponent gets first turn, shoots Lord Disco to death and suddenly your Daemon engines loose their support. Don´t like that.

Would you rather play 2 disco lords and 2 maulerfiend? I don't find venomcrawlers that good actually and 1 rhino is a dead sentence too me, it will just draw too much firepower and then the zerkers are stranded

[Hannibal]

 

 

 

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game. Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo. I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

I mean that i have many different choices now and i usually plan to play a lord discordant and 3 maulerfiend as my cc threat(with the vigilus detachment) while the rest of the list is more of a firebase

I´ll run 2 Lords Discordant, a Venomcrawler and a Rhino with 2 units of 5 Berzerkers instead. Simply because I own the models and because I think that Daemon engines with just ONE Lord Discordant is a trap. Your opponent gets first turn, shoots Lord Disco to death and suddenly your Daemon engines loose their support. Don´t like that.

Would you rather play 2 disco lords and 2 maulerfiend? I don't find venomcrawlers that good actually and 1 rhino is a dead sentence too me, it will just draw too much firepower and then the zerkers are stranded

 

Well, I already own the Venomcrawler, therefore I like to use it. In fact, you can get a Venomcrawler for less than half the price compared to a Maulerfiend, making it a great deal. Gamewise the Venomcrawler is more versatile which I like to run compared to specialist pieces. And the Venomcrawler does not loose on "to hit" if bracketed.

 

One Rhino might not be enough, but there is still the demon engines and Disco Lords who need attention. I think that in 1000 - 1250 points (the most common in my local meta) 2 Disco Lords and 2 out of demon engines and rhinos is too much to be shot to death first round. In fact, Disco Lords with Red Corsair legion trait are able to charge first turn more likely than not, especially in that demon engines special detachment from Vigilus Ablaze. Therefore your opponent has to decide what to shoot first and I think it´s not an easy solution.

 

And don´t forget that you need smething that is able to enter second floors in ruins, which your demon engines can´t reach!

 

That being said, if money and time wouldn´t be an issue, I´d run 2-3 Disco Lords with no further demon engines but Helbrutes instead. They shoot better. Oh, and Space Marines in Rhinos, be it Drive-by-shooters or Berzerkers. Just a lot of armor spam and high rate of mobility. Bring the fight to them!

 

Sidenote: I think with the increased Dakka from loyal Space Marines these days Rhinos might have a come back. Intercessors and the like need 5s to wound and the Rhino still has at least a 5+ armor save, meaning that one shot does (2/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 =) 4/27 dmage to a Rhino on average, equaling in almost 7 shots needed to reduce one wound from your Rhino. And that´s best case (rend -2 is not available on all small arms fire).

[Mcha0s92]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't use them for the Alpha Legion, but what do you mean by you can't find room for them, they are one of the best CC units in the game. Use them in a dreadclaw, which in itself is a great unit for causing mischievous after its dropped off its cargo. I'd only use rhinos if you are taking more than one squad as your opponent will shoot it to death before it gets close to their deployment.

I mean that i have many different choices now and i usually plan to play a lord discordant and 3 maulerfiend as my cc threat(with the vigilus detachment) while the rest of the list is more of a firebase

I´ll run 2 Lords Discordant, a Venomcrawler and a Rhino with 2 units of 5 Berzerkers instead. Simply because I own the models and because I think that Daemon engines with just ONE Lord Discordant is a trap. Your opponent gets first turn, shoots Lord Disco to death and suddenly your Daemon engines loose their support. Don´t like that.

Would you rather play 2 disco lords and 2 maulerfiend? I don't find venomcrawlers that good actually and 1 rhino is a dead sentence too me, it will just draw too much firepower and then the zerkers are stranded

Well, I already own the Venomcrawler, therefore I like to use it. In fact, you can get a Venomcrawler for less than half the price compared to a Maulerfiend, making it a great deal. Gamewise the Venomcrawler is more versatile which I like to run compared to specialist pieces. And the Venomcrawler does not loose on "to hit" if bracketed.

 

One Rhino might not be enough, but there is still the demon engines and Disco Lords who need attention. I think that in 1000 - 1250 points (the most common in my local meta) 2 Disco Lords and 2 out of demon engines and rhinos is too much to be shot to death first round. In fact, Disco Lords with Red Corsair legion trait are able to charge first turn more likely than not, especially in that demon engines special detachment from Vigilus Ablaze. Therefore your opponent has to decide what to shoot first and I think it´s not an easy solution.

 

And don´t forget that you need smething that is able to enter second floors in ruins, which your demon engines can´t reach!

 

That being said, if money and time wouldn´t be an issue, I´d run 2-3 Disco Lords with no further demon engines but Helbrutes instead. They shoot better. Oh, and Space Marines in Rhinos, be it Drive-by-shooters or Berzerkers. Just a lot of armor spam and high rate of mobility. Bring the fight to them!

 

Sidenote: I think with the increased Dakka from loyal Space Marines these days Rhinos might have a come back. Intercessors and the like need 5s to wound and the Rhino still has at least a 5+ armor save, meaning that one shot does (2/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 =) 4/27 dmage to a Rhino on average, equaling in almost 7 shots needed to reduce one wound from your Rhino. And that´s best case (rend -2 is not available on all small arms fire).

I usually play at 2k points but i see your point of view.

I guess i'll give the venomcrawler a try( i have it lying there from the shadowspear box).

With the improved loyalist marine i see that our marines need some sort of protection otherwise they are dead turn 1.

[Trevak Dal]

Would Alpha Legion Berserkers technically be the meme Ninjas who flip out and kill everything? The Ninja Gaiden ninjas?

[Scourged]

That reminds me of a meme about a DnD character I stumbled onto a while back. It was an Orc Rogue who, rather than put stats into Stealth put them into Intimidation. When infiltrating, if someone spotted the Orc he would do an Intimidation check and shout "YOU DON'T SEE ME!!!" and it would most often work. I think that template would fit AL 'zerkers well.