Stalker pattern bolt rifles

[Mcha0s92]

Do you find a squad of intercessors armed with stalker rifle useful in your lists? I think the stratagem has a too high cost to be relied upon

[casb1965]

2CP to double your shot output sounds bad until you think if you're within 15" your 10 man unit is kicking out 40 shots at D2 and -1 AP and if you're in Tactical doctrine that becomes -2 AP.

 

Imperial Fist players benefit even more with "ignoring cover" and "6s = 2 hits", with average rolls that's 33, -2AP D2 hits.

[Oxydo]

2CP to double your shot output sounds bad until you think if you're within 15" your 10 man unit is kicking out 40 shots at D2 and -1 AP and if you're in Tactical doctrine that becomes -2 AP.

 

Imperial Fist players benefit even more with "ignoring cover" and "6s = 2 hits", with average rolls that's 33, -2AP D2 hits.

 

Stalkers are Heavy 1 and aren't affected by neither bolter discipline nor Tactical Doctrine.

Their strat also gives them the sniper rule but doesn't double their shots.

 

On topic, I don't really see the point in Stalkers since 3 CP for 10 sniper shots is quite expensive, and you can buy actual full time snipers if you need that. The lack of shots and being heavy starts hurting when advancing in tactical doctrine compared to the two other options so I'm not going to add stalkers to my list but that's because my playstyle is focused on melee to mid-close range.

[Captain Idaho]

A backfield Intercessor squad with Stalkers can plink away at heavier targets and cause a handful of wounds but really you'll want Eliminators for that and get your Intercessors in close.

[Closet Skeleton]

The damage 2 makes them decent at softening up light and medium vehicles and will come into its own if Primaris face offs start becoming common in the meta. Haven't used the stratagem yet but the damage 2 ap-2 is a massive boon over scouts.

 

Camo cloak sniper scouts are similar in cost to intercessors anyway.

[Panzer]

It's an okay-ish alternative if you expect to face some more heavy infantry. These days it's best to just go with Auto Bolt Rifles though.

 

[Prot]

I don't know about the Strategem but I find them very useful against high end infantry. Their in all my lists and with Ultra's, as a troop choice that can run and gun, I find that very useful. 

[librisrouge]

It's an okay-ish alternative if you expect to face some more heavy infantry. These days it's best to just go with Auto Bolt Rifles though.

 

I just adore whenever we see numbers like this on the forum. It seems especially appropriate on the Ultramarine subforum.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are really good with the Devastator doctrine. If I ran a third squad I’d definitely run them with stalkers.

[Stickeh]

It's an okay-ish alternative if you expect to face some more heavy infantry. These days it's best to just go with Auto Bolt Rifles though.

 

These numbers are very helpful, thanks! I’ve been modelling my intercessors with bolt rifles but it looks like autos are the way to go, barring the double fire stratagem on a unit of 10. Sadly i think the stalker bolt gun stratagem is just too expensive when eliminators exist.

[Lemondish]

 

It's an okay-ish alternative if you expect to face some more heavy infantry. These days it's best to just go with Auto Bolt Rifles though.

 

These numbers are very helpful, thanks! I’ve been modelling my intercessors with bolt rifles but it looks like autos are the way to go, barring the double fire stratagem on a unit of 10. Sadly i think the stalker bolt gun stratagem is just too expensive when eliminators exist.

 

 

It's definitely not something you want to build a list around or even plan to use every game, but if you're running Stalker rifle Intercessors for other reasons anyway then the Strat can be of use from time to time. It is far more situational compared to the rapid fire one, and the opportunity cost is high, but if you need to down a linchpin character don't forget about this one. 3 CP is expensive, but if paying it puts you on a much easier path to winning the match then it would be CP well spent

[Prot]

 

It's an okay-ish alternative if you expect to face some more heavy infantry. These days it's best to just go with Auto Bolt Rifles though.

 

These numbers are very helpful, thanks! I’ve been modelling my intercessors with bolt rifles but it looks like autos are the way to go, barring the double fire stratagem on a unit of 10. Sadly i think the stalker bolt gun stratagem is just too expensive when eliminators exist.

 

 

Actually that's exactly the thought process I had. Then I realized as Ultra's the Bolt Rifles (starting T2) are shooting 2x a turn at 30" with AP-2.  

 

The Auto Bolt Rifle Strat is okay, but the new strats are just so much better, and with Aura's it's hard to justify the CP cost. 

 

So I built one squad of Stalkers, and I don't have any regrets.

 

The thing here is it's not always about the math. Autohitting flyer/or negative modifier units (which are everywhere on the competitive scene) is very valuable. However facing multi wound elite units is also a big thing in my area. And I like the 36" (there also the 'option' of sniping characters).

 

My conclusion: GW did a very respectable job of making the 'uncommon' Bolt Rifle types much more usable. :)

[crazyterran]

With the Rapid Fire strategem and Ultramarines double tapping up to 30 on the move, Assault Bolters still beat them for UM? 

 

The extra 1PPM though... 

[Kallas]

With the Rapid Fire strategem and Ultramarines double tapping up to 30 on the move, Assault Bolters still beat them for UM? 

 

The extra 1PPM though... 

 

Statistically...kind of.

 

Once UM Scions of Guilliman comes into play, they're better against different targets:

 

Vs GEQs:

BR: 2*0.66*0.66 = 0.871 wounds/17pts = 19.5pts/wound

ABR: 3*0.66*0.66*0.833 = 1.089 wounds/18pts = 16.5pts/wound

 

Vs MEQs:

BR: 2*0.66*0.5*0.66 = 0.436 wounds/17pts = 39pts/wound

ABR: 3*0.66*0.5*0.5 = 0.495 wounds/18pts = 36.4pts/wound

 

Vs TEQs:

BR: 2*0.66*0.5*0.5 = 0.33 wounds/17pts = 51.5pts/wound

ABR: 3*0.66*0.5*0.33 = 0.327 wounds/18pts = 55pts/wound

 

BRs are pretty decent all rounders; ABRs are actually still pretty damn good against similar targets, but when saves get to 2+ then the BR edges out a little bit. I think the Tactical Doctrine and extra shot really do make ABRs an excellent weapon now; especially as they're firing their 3 shots all of the time, vs the BR getting 2 only at half range or under Scions.

 

Edit:

Missed the part about Rapid Fire: once that gets added into the equation then they become much more effective, but then there's an additional CP cost, and the opportunity cost that only one unit can use RF in each phase (in Matched Play). To figure out how good RF BRs are...just double the wounds caused/halve the points per wound above!

[Link2edition]

I put some sticky tack on the rifles where the magazine goes and just swap out the variants as I please so I don't have to pick which to build.

The fit is snug enough you really don't even need magnets, just a little bit of stick.

[Seahawk]

I've built one 10 man squad with rifles, still debating how to build the next 10: all of any of them, or half n half of Stalkers/ABRs.

[Stiff Crayons]

I've built one 10 man squad with rifles, still debating how to build the next 10: all of any of them, or half n half of Stalkers/ABRs.

I’d suggest creating squads with uniform weapon options. Max squads (10 models) will get the most mileage from the strategems. Five stalkers using Target Sighted might be a little underwhelming and not worth the 3 cp. Might as well go all-out and take ten models if you intend on using the strategem.