crazyterran Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 So are you advocating taking three special characters ? Personally, I would advocate taking only one - Cassius. He's at a good price point for what he does. Of course, my army build does not contain Scouts or Tanks. I tend to try to put as little in HQs as possible, as while cool and flashy, they don't typically have the output of other units. Sounds like two I think? But that did make me realize that It’s a bit harder to get a double battalion going with guilliman considering that you still need four HQ spots. Another point for calagar If you take Guilliman you kind of anchor yourself to a single batallion, there aren't four HQs I'd want to take with Guilliman. Maybe Tigurius and Cassius? That'd be 235 points for a battalion's HQ slots. I suppose if you are already going to take Scouts that Telion is an option, or already going to take tanks Chronus is as well, But if you weren't going to take what goes with those two, there is little point. Calgar/Cassius/Tigurius/a LT runs you about 505 points, Guilliman with Cassius and Tigurius is 585. The cheapest options for CM/LT/Lib/Chap is just under 300. The only UM Special Character I find as an auto include so far for this book is Cassius, simply because he is 13pts more than a BP/Crozius chaplain or 5pts more than a similarly equipped Chaplain for a significant amount of boosts. Which means I suspect Cassius will get nerfed points wise. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I don't think Cassius will be getting nerfed. He's a strong HQ but limited in wargear options and to a specific chapter. There will be other strong, similar options in the future. I expect Grimaldus will get a nice bump in rules in the supplement he appears in. If you chose to run Guilliman you should chose HQs who don't replicate what he does. My advice would be Tigurius and Chronus in a Whirlwind with Vengeance Rounds, as an example. As it stands you can squeeze out more offensive power from armies with Calgar over Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I don't think Cassius will be getting nerfed. He's a strong HQ but limited in wargear options and to a specific chapter. There will be other strong, similar options in the future. I expect Grimaldus will get a nice bump in rules in the supplement he appears in. If you chose to run Guilliman you should chose HQs who don't replicate what he does. My advice would be Tigurius and Chronus in a Whirlwind with Vengeance Rounds, as an example. As it stands you can squeeze out more offensive power from armies with Calgar over Guilliman. All special characters are limited in their wargear and options, and limited to a specific chapter. Cassius is literally 5pts more expensive than an equivalently geared Chaplain, who has an extra tick of toughness, has a one of six chance of letting marines reflect a wound back, and have and use an extra prayer. His Crozius is better and the bolter part of the combi weapon is master crafted. The only reason you wouldn't take it is because he doesn't go in Impulsors or Repulsors since he's not Primaris. I expect him to go up 5 to 10 points at the least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Nah. He's a perk for Ultramarine players. Other chapters will have their own perks, perhaps involving characters or other rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Nah. He's a perk for Ultramarine players. Other chapters will have their own perks, perhaps involving characters or other rules. Ultramarines already have more than a few perks - Seal of Oaths is perhaps one of of the most powerful relics in the game, Calgar, Tigurius, Guilliman are all strong, Chronus is great in certain vehicles. Our ancient is better, our champion is better, and we get to move and shoot freely starting turn 2. I'm sure he'll get a bit of a point increase, saying it like the Ultramarines don't have anything else is a bit disingenuous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I'm sure he'll get a bit of a point increase, saying it like the Ultramarines don't have anything else is a bit disingenuous. Particularly considering that Ultramarines currently have by far the most unique units out of the Codex: Space Marines Chapters. Cassius is simply a huge step up from a normal Chaplain that he is a no brainier choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Have you guys not seen the iron hands "leaks"? Before we start claiming the Ultras are "blessed" or swimming in perks we'll need to see all the supplements and how they perform. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Have you guys not seen the iron hands "leaks"? Before we start claiming the Ultras are "blessed" or swimming in perks we'll need to see all the supplements and how they perform. Iron Hands are besides the point. For an Ultramarines army, Cassius is a massive step up over a regular Chaplain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I doubt he will get a point increase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Yes, and it remains to be seen if the boost he provides over a regular Chaplain impact how strong the Ultras are compared to the other chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Have you guys not seen the iron hands "leaks"? What are the rumors? I really wanna know ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Have you guys not seen the iron hands "leaks"? What are the rumors? I really wanna know ! That's a discussion for the Iron Hands forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Ok... I hope they get some good stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358193-guilliman-or-calgar/page/2/#findComment-5383717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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