Suppressors - opinions?

[Xenith]

Hi all,

 

I didn't see any topics on them, so now there is.

 

How have they been faring in game for you? Good? Useless? In between?

 

Are they a worthy HS choice, or just good for cheaply filling a battalion?

 

All thoughts are welcome - for reference mine will be using BA chapter tactics, however I thought I'd get more varies responses in the AA section. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Xenith

[domsto]

Well in my Oppinon they are pretty much useless.

They lack damage output and try to fulfil a Role that Space Marines really don't need.

Hellblasters are better for the Job

 

And the Models are absolute ugly.

[CCE1981]

I haven't used them, they really just confuse me.  Their ability to stopping overwatch doesn't really go well with the guns they have.  They are far to easy to kill.  I just can't see how they are really supposed to function.  Especially since looking at them there function should be clear, but they just don't work the way they look like they should.

[apologist]

Love the guns themselves (in terms of sculpts, rules and background), am ambivalent about the models, and dislike the muddled concept of jump-pack devastators.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Apologist

[Volt]

Suppressors as a unit just don't make sense because when the hell do space marines ever change infantry squads that are for the most part fodder? The situation where you're going to be charging something valuable enough that you worry about overwatch into something like basic infantry is going to be rare, as pricey units like Vanguard Vets, TH/SS Terminators, Smash Captains, or Dreadnoughts are going to be charging single model valuable linchpin units like Knights, tanks, battlesuits, etc. Throwing them at fodder only makes sense if  you need to punch through a wrap, but for slightly more points you could just get a unit of Inceptors and kill the wrapping infantry that was preventing a charge. Suppressors would be useful if they canceled overwatch by merely inflicting wounds, but with them needing to remove models it just results in them being a bit naff when sending heavy hitting melee units to take out the scary things in the enemy army. The only use I could see for Suppressors is in Black Templar armies which get cheaper access to semi-effective massed CC.

[NatBrannigan]

Quite like them with Wolves where there's a lot more charging going on. Mentioned on another thread but I killed an Aggressor last game with them, cancelling the overwatch (which is brutal) and getting my Wulfen into combat unscathed.

 

Rather they were a bit cheaper and didn't have a jetpack because I rarely move them. I think they're supposed to fill multiple roles (mobile heavy firepower then pounce to claim an objective late on) which makes sense for the special forces feel the new Primaris have but doesn't translate well onto the tabletop.

 

They're fine, but that's all.

[Panzer]

They are very decent even just for their raw damage output imo. It's just that you need more than just 3. Kinda like Eliminators in that regard. The anti-OW and the FLY stuff is just cherry on the top. Use it when it happens you are in a situation where you need it but don't take them for it.

[Halandaar]

Personally I've had some success with them just treating them as a mobile Autocannon platform and not worrying about the overwatch cancelling stuff. For the most part, i think if you're shooting at the kind of infantry that you also want to charge then you're wasting an Autocannon's strengths. There is one exception to this; Primaris Marines. And that's where Suppressor's main weakness is, IMO. They are part of the army they are most effective against.

 

Autocannons are great against Primaris Marines and shutting down the overwatch of something like Imperial Fists Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifles is going to make a huge difference to how many of your guys make the charge. Unfortunately, your normal Marine army doesn't really have the kind of units that want to be charging those guys anyway. Orks however, would pay a lot of teef for something like that.

 

Now if you're playing BA and running a bunch of assaulty stuff then you might get more out of Suppressors than your average Marine player. 

[BluejayJunior]

I love the models. I think they're decent and have a role in the army. Their mobility, ability to deepstrike, and cancel overwatch are all good. I've only played 2 games with them, so I'm still trying to figure out the best way to use them, though. I think having multiples is going to be key to their effectiveness. 

[Xenith]

Thoughts on against things like Tau, where each Suppressor can shoot a separate unit of fire warriors, likely killing one and potentially blocking overwatch from multiple units?

[mika_angelus]

Thing is it works only against infantry.

So at most you will shut down the overwatch of 3 five man units of fire warriors.

It's still nice, don't get me wrong, 45 strength 5 shoots less is good, but still fire warriors are not the main damage dealers in a Tau army. And if the Tau player really feels like having their overwatch he can tank those wounds on drones anyway, and drones themselves are not infantry.

[Nusquam]

I like them but I agree they make no sense translated to the table top. They would be great in Urban Conquest where vertical mobility is a premium ability. Lore-wise I can understand a unit that's more mobile than a speeder and has various deployment options.

 

That didn't stop me from getting 6.  I used them in a game as a successor; they did well for what I wanted them to do. Which was fall upon a side objective, clear it out, score it, and then shoot from it. The additional AP from the Dev doctrine helped. I can see Reivers doign the same thing supported by them since deepstriking is outside the shock grenade range. You'd want a charge bonus trait though.

[Panzer]

I actually wouldn't even let them deep strike. They have enough range to deploy regularly and suffer from moving&shooting with heavy weapons. If you want to deep strike a unit to deal lots of damage better go with Inceptors.

[Charlo]

They have a nice gun and a unique ability.

FLY is always very strong.

They're infantry still so can claim cover too.

Remember that as Primaris Marines, they have 3A on the charge now too.

Also 48" range and high mobility lets them threaten anywhere.

 

As anon mentions on 1D4Chan, White Scars tactics on them allowing them to fallback and charge could make them be VERY powerful as harassing unit.

 

Shoot something > smoke grenade > charge > enemy cannot overwatch > fight > enemy fights with -1 to hit > retreat > do it all again!

 

In short, they're a unique tool in the tool box for Astartes and I believe are much more than just cancelling overwatch. Devastator Doctrine also makes them AP-3 which is potentially very nice against Tau etc.

[Claws and Effect]

I rather like them.

 

The overwatch canceling is nice when I want to send a unit of twin claws Vanguard in against Infantry units that put out a lot of shots.

 

They don't need to move to be effective, but they can move well if needed.

 

And most importantly: they are a cheap Fast Attack choice that isn't a waste of points if you're trying to build a Brigade. Not really a lot of FA choices available to us that don't either suck or cost a lot of points. They fill that niche nicely.

[ImperialTuba]

What got me interested in them was the potential damage they could cause and their impressive range. Two damage per shot was very enticing when I was first looking into them. I hope I can make use of their Overwatch cancelling ability in the future, but as some have mentioned, it would be better if it could also be activated just by inflicting wounds on a target.

 

Overall, I think they look cool. Maybe a few things I would change here and there, but still good looking models. 

[Dracos]

Visually not a fan.

 

Like most any model they can have a place depending on the army build. Autocannons no joke as far as a deadly weapon. Same as Helverins though just not a fan of the model visually.

 

Put a OGC or HOG at the right price on them I’d probably buy it for the looks alone

[The Unseen]

If they could trigger the OW cancel with just wounds, they'd be very useful.

Lots of big single things have very scary overwatch.

 

But most infantry units in game don't have overwatch that's all that scary, and they have the wrong guns for shooting infantry.

 

Mobile devs that you can hid out of LOS first turn then move and fire at a small penalty have potential, but their special rules and guns don't mesh well with that role or each other.

 

But their autocannons are actually pretty damaging for their cost. The unit as a whole is pretty well priced, it's just that other units currently do what they do better.

 

Maybe when they get a kit release they'll get some weapon options that are better suited to that.

Edited September 7, 2019 by The Unseen

[Marshal van Trapp]

Honestly "if a unit without the VEHICLE keyword suffers damage from an attack made by this weapon it cannot fire overwatch until the end of the turn" would be both fluffy and actually useful, although I'd probably have them go back up to their original point cost to balance the added utility

[Son of Sacrifice]

I only have 3, and I've found that opponents really fear auto cannons. They've been heavily targeted. I treat the jump pack as a nice extra, not usually needed but I won't complain about the ability to jump out of a hot spot.

[Mandragola]

I think people fixate far too much on the jump packs. These guys cost around the same as a devastator with a missile launcher. They’re much better. If you want infantry with heavy weapons they’re a pretty good option. As a bonus, they can move pretty fast to grab objectives or get better lines of sight, but nobody forces you to do this.

[Xerxus]

Running them as Iron Hands would seem to be fairly viable.

[Mandragola]

Running them as Iron Hands would seem to be fairly viable.

It definitely looks that way. They can be hopping around with -3ap autocannon rerolling 1s all day - or at least till someone shoots them.

 

The downside of this approach is that it probably makes most sense for iron hands to take a lot of tanks, which would leave the suppressors as obvious targets for any anti-personnel weapons.

 

These non-soup bonuses are turning out to be massive. Can’t wait to see what my Crimson Fists get. Unless it’s “pwn orks even more lol”.

[CCE1981]

Running them as Iron Hands would seem to be fairly viable.

 

 

Unlike Ultramarines where they can hide turn one, drop on turn two and not count as moving while every other model in your army also gains a benefit.

[quasistellar]

 

Running them as Iron Hands would seem to be fairly viable.

It definitely looks that way. They can be hopping around with -3ap autocannon rerolling 1s all day - or at least till someone shoots them.

 

The downside of this approach is that it probably makes most sense for iron hands to take a lot of tanks, which would leave the suppressors as obvious targets for any anti-personnel weapons.

 

These non-soup bonuses are turning out to be massive. Can’t wait to see what my Crimson Fists get. Unless it’s “pwn orks even more lol”.

 

 

I don't know about all tanks.  Repulsors, sure, but I think the best way to run Iron Hands will be dreadnoughts.  Venerables and contemptors and leviathans all hitting on 2s rerolling 1s.

 

And I agree that suppressors will shine brightest as Iron Hands.  Sniper squads (eliminators and scouts) and stalker bolter intercessors, too.

 

I've held off building and painting my shadowspear stuff, not knowing whether Deathwatch or Iron Hands (my two chapters I play) would be best.  Looks like it'll be Iron Hands with suppressors and eliminators.

 

I'll have to wait and see with the infiltrators, yet.  Can't use them in DW right now, but maybe that will change!