Primaris Sword Brothers?

[Link2edition]

Do you think there are any Primaris Sword Brothers in the Black Templar? I know they have been around for a couple hundred years but I am not sure that is enough to get them in the Marshal's household. The first wave of primaris were basically children, and the following wave needed time to survive being a neophyte.

I am painting my first unit of intercessors and was unsure if I should give the unit leader black and red shoulder pads.

Also do you paint up your unit leaders as sword brothers? Or do you save those colors for special units?

[Dark_Jober]

New DA Lore from WD talks about veterans Primaris accepted in the Ravenwing and Deathwing but no images or units at this moment.

I think it is not a question about centuries, because many heroes rase really fast like Helbrecht or Grimaldus.

 

The units will be shown when GW has the miniatures... But before that we will receive no units. Look at Veteran Intercessors: no miniatures no upgrade kits

[Marshal Reinhard]

Veteran intercessors are still a thing no? (through stratagems). Since all our veterans are sword brothers, those would be too.

 

For my part, I painted all my castellans in swordbrethren colours, even though there's no real precedent for this (Though castellans are described as being drawn from the swordbrethren, they've never really been depicted in anything but the standard white black pads)

[Smirnov]

Waiting for updated rules before I start thinking about them. If there's a unit, then yes, if not, then no

[Dark_Jober]

Veteran intercessors are still a thing no? (through stratagems). Since all our veterans are sword brothers, those would be too.

 

For my part, I painted all my castellans in swordbrethren colours, even though there's no real precedent for this (Though castellans are described as being drawn from the swordbrethren, they've never really been depicted in anything but the standard white black pads)

I think Marshal Almarich (Cadia) was the first drawn with SB colours

[Acebaur]

Why wouldn't there be Sword Brethren Primaris? It's been more than 2 centuries since they were introduced. Surely in that time there have been many who have distinguished themselves in battle enough to be a SB.  There might even be Marshal's that are primaris for all we know. 

 

As for how I paint my squad leaders, some get to be actual sword brethren and some get to be just veteran Initiates who haven't yet ascended the ranks. According to our fluff Sword Brethren don't always lead crusader squads, however someone would still be the leader of the squad. 

[Marshal Rohr]

There definitely are, considering whole crusades would be only primaris by now.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Veteran intercessors are still a thing no? (through stratagems). Since all our veterans are sword brothers, those would be too.

 

For my part, I painted all my castellans in swordbrethren colours, even though there's no real precedent for this (Though castellans are described as being drawn from the swordbrethren, they've never really been depicted in anything but the standard white black pads)

My planned scheme for Castellans is the standard Sword Brethren pauldrons colors, but the decorative metal elements and general bling would be gold as opposed to silver.

 

For Marshals, I'm planning black or gold pauldron trim, white interior, and a black cross with a red outline (ginfritters gnomish workshop makes decals like this).

 

Granted, I'm a college student so for reasons related to time and budget I've decided to focus solely on Kill Team, so I probably won't get around to actually painting any Marshals or Castellans in the near future.

[redmapa]

Its been 200 years, thats more than enough time for any marine to become a Veteran so yeah there's bound to be some Primaris Sword Brethren maybe only in Primaris led Crusades but they should exist by now. Personally Im painting all my Castellans and squad leaders with Sword Brethren colors but right there isnt any Primaris unit that feels like they should be Veteran.

[Medjugorje]

Its been 200 years, thats more than enough time for any marine to become a Veteran so yeah there's bound to be some Primaris Sword Brethren maybe only in Primaris led Crusades but they should exist by now. Personally Im painting all my Castellans and squad leaders with Sword Brethren colors but right there isnt any Primaris unit that feels like they should be Veteran.

Indomitus Crusader should be Swort Brethren (painted in this color). They are Veterans in the (secound) biggest Crusade for years. (Not to mention that we continue the big long crusade.

[Sete]

Are we forgetting that they can cross the rubicon?

[Link2edition]

Are we forgetting that they can cross the rubicon?

I thought that was only characters, as they have the plot armor necessary to survive the procedure.

[Sete]

Nah everyone can cross. It is said on the last codex aswell.

[MindEraser]

My (few) primaris units will be painted as they are veterans and include a sword bro, they deserve it after some successfully battles..

[Marshal Vespasian]

Sete, I think He was being faceiteious ;)

 

That being said: Veteran sergeants become swordbros in my crusade. I like the paint scheme.

 

If they did a primaris swordbrethren unit, I would use it, love the primaris sculpts. But cant stand the seal Team 6 in space Look on vanguards. Tacticus and gravis is cool with me though.

[Smirnov]

Why wouldn't there be Sword Brethren Primaris? It's been more than 2 centuries since they were introduced. Surely in that time there have been many who have distinguished themselves in battle enough to be a SB.  There might even be Marshal's that are primaris for all we know.

While it's no doubt there should be prmaris SB, how d othey operate? Do they form their own primaris squads or do they serve along regular brothers? If it's the former, then there could be some time before a first primaris squad would be formed as one crusade needs to accumulate at least 5 primaris SB in order to do so. Or veterans can be allowed to cross the rubicon, this is another option as well... So yeah, a lot of questions I want to be answered before i start modelling

[Marshal Reinhard]

One of the older pieces of lore that's been lost since 6th edition is the fact that we didn't actually have any "sergeants" at all in the past. Our squads were brotherhoods of knights that all knew each other and fought well together. This mechanically however wasn't as strong gameplaywise, as upgrading someone to a veteran sergeant (or sword brother in our case) meant additional special weapons per squad, which was good for tooling your crusaders, but meant this snippet of lore was lost as a consequence, since now all these squads had swordbrethren squadleaders.

 

Regardless, since we didn't use to have swordbrothers being fielded along crusaders, they were exclusively fielded in their own squads. Essentially again the squads were circles of knights that fought alongside each other and functioned as unit out of choice and familiarity, the difference now being that all squad members were now proven veterans. These swordbrethren could also select special rules along the lines of tank hunters, or furious charge, or even infiltrate, which fit with this description rather well (but was more a feature of the edition rather than something unique to us)

 

Ever since 4th edition, there's been no specific swordbrethren squad, instead our sternguard or vanguard veterans represented our swordbrethren, which brings us back to Primaris swordbrethren, they should ideally all be fielded in squads of their own, painted with the red and black trims of swordbrethren, (which for primaris pretty much means intercessors upgraded with the stratagem, though i'm still hoping for a proper veteran primaris units that can be used to represent them, preferably one that can take any number of power- and chainswords), though I've also specifically painted the anniversary veteran sergeant model and veteran sergeant jovan model (these event minis are killing me) in swordbrother colours since they're described as 'veteran', at least on the box.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I painted one SB for each of my Intercessor squads.

 

I always thought that Sergeant was a rank within the Sword Brethren itself. (Grimaldus' command squad had a sergeant for instance.)

 

I think therefore that a Sword Brother leads a Crusader Squad, but a Sergeant leads a Sword Brethren Squad.

 

What would be a cool unit would be a Sword Brethren Squad which could include veterans of both Primaris and Firstborn. A la Deathwatch.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Ah yes, a caveat to 4th editions "no sergeants" around tidbit is that, for command squads and sword brethren terminator command squads had sergeants. No real explanation, they were just there

[Closet Skeleton]

The 4th ed codex was explicit that sergeants were unusual, that's not the same thing as nonexistent.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Now this is interesting, I had to look again .Crunchwise, only command squads have them, they're simply not listed under squad compostion and aren't an upgrade or anything for any other squad. But you're right, in the fluff it states that "most of these squads will have no veteran sergeants". Most.

 

Now, I have to wonder, is the vagueness because the command squad crunch does list them? I always took it to be because the of the many myriad of options of the command squad, they simply listed sergeant as a specialist because they hadn't come up with an alternative name for it, so it was mostly just following the generic space marine command squad setup. But maybe there's more to it than that?

[Acebaur]

Now this is interesting, I had to look again .Crunchwise, only command squads have them, they're simply not listed under squad compostion and aren't an upgrade or anything for any other squad. But you're right, in the fluff it states that "most of these squads will have no veteran sergeants". Most.

 

Now, I have to wonder, is the vagueness because the command squad crunch does list them? I always took it to be because the of the many myriad of options of the command squad, they simply listed sergeant as a specialist because they hadn't come up with an alternative name for it, so it was mostly just following the generic space marine command squad setup. But maybe there's more to it than that?

 

The command squad and Terminator entries were copy and paste from the 4th ed C:SM. That's why they have sgts and the rest of the army doesn't. 

 

GW was less imaginative back then, fluff wise we didn't typically have veteran sgts, but surely there were sgts to lead the squads. Just that most of the Veterans were already Sword Brethren.  Back then only veteran sgt's could take wargear and there was actually a distinction between the standard sgt and the veteran one

[Link2edition]

What would be a cool unit would be a Sword Brethren Squad which could include veterans of both Primaris and Firstborn. A la Deathwatch.

I love this idea. I also want to see a unit with Primaris and Neophytes.

 

Imagine soaking damage 2 hits on the neos like we used to do with low AP hits in 5th ed.

 

Not to get too off topic though, The shoulder pad markings have been a pain for me for awhile. I have a few models that are sometimes sword brothers and sometimes initiates that I have no clue how to paint, though Helsreach has a line "his days in the sword brethren are long behind him" referring to one of grimaldus' veterans

implying its not a permanent post.

[balordazul]

So do we have lore on how of what is involved on crossing the rubicon?  It also messes with my as the only thing rubricon like in 40k for as long as I remember is the rubric of ahriman.

[Brother Carpenter]

Ah yes, a caveat to 4th editions "no sergeants" around tidbit is that, for command squads and sword brethren terminator command squads had sergeants. No real explanation, they were just there

That,s why my tournament army of that time had sub-castellans and sr sub-castellans. Instead of sgt and vet sgt.