Luther ?

[mactire]

Just a fluff question guys. In primaris thread it was was mentioned of Luther being free, just wondering when and how that happened? 

[bevulf]

Read rhe latest codex and you will know

[mactire]

Yeah, I was kinda hoping for the short & cheap version 

 

 Typical Dark Angels, all secrets and "need to know" 

Edited September 12, 2019 by mactire

[UtariOnzo]

A daemon prince invaded the rock with some daemon buddies and broke him out. Azrael couldn’t admit to Luther escaping because only he’s meant to know about it, but there seems to be a drip feed of lore that suggests the rest of the inner circle know now he’s alive and legion building (next white dwarf article leaks mentions the Company Master knowing Luther is legion building iirc)

As an aside I find it irritating the dude was written up in the lore totally dedicated to wanting the Lion’s forgiveness for what he’s done and now we’re meant to buy that he’s legion building with chaos? Either this is expectation subversion, some cloak and dagger business, or they 180’d Luther around

[twopounder]

I expect that they'll have a Luthor vs Lion rematch as part of a future campaign.

[mactire]

Ah okay, yeah that's the bit I didn't get, him building up a force like Astelan. It didn't seem to follow his story arc, but that's GW for you, guess we're all being Primaris screwed. Only the UM don't seem too bothered, I suppose whatever Bobby G says is ok with them.

[Grimdark_Garage]

I'm still hoping for a split from Bobby G's new imperium down the line when the Lion returns who has secretly requested Luther gather the Fallen to bolster their strength.

 

Cos lets face it....who uses Fallen on either side of the fence.

 

Would be a great opportunity for some cool Luther with Retinue models in leui of Primaris Ravenwing/Deathwing. (Which I suspect wont be coming anytime soon)

[mactire]

If there's a split I'd rather go with ye, would much prefer returning 13th Company reinforcements than trying to shoehorn in Primaris

[Berzul]

Maybe Chaos will gain a new Fallen subfaction, instead of the Fallen being just one unit on the overall CSM codex.

 

One can dream...

[Vexillia Primus]

Theory and wishful thinking on my part ahead.

 

Luthor was freed by the demon prince, not be cause he would side with chaos, but because his loyalty will tear apart the Imperium. When the Lion awakes he will see what the Imperium has become, what the astartes have been forced to become (primaris,codex astartes, etc.), and whom is at the head of it all. He may never be told about what happened to the lead up,or he might not care. All have strayed from their loyalty to the Emperor and the Imperial Truth.

 

Luthor gathers all the Fallen, sends the most chaotic and disloyal to die on the battlefields while keeping those loyal to the Imperium safe. Once the Lion returns, Luthor presents them to bolster the newly reformed First Legion. With a formidable army (Dark Angels, all successors, and the Fallen formed together), the Lion may very well lead a crusade to put the Imperium back to the way the Emperor wanted it.

 

Would make sense of the new artwork showing the interrogator chaplain dragging an Ultramarine lieutenant with a sergeant in a cell

[bevulf]

Where can i find this artwork ?

[Gederas]

Theory and wishful thinking on my part ahead.

 

Luthor was freed by the demon prince, not be cause he would side with chaos, but because his loyalty will tear apart the Imperium. When the Lion awakes he will see what the Imperium has become, what the astartes have been forced to become (primaris,codex astartes, etc.), and whom is at the head of it all. He may never be told about what happened to the lead up,or he might not care. All have strayed from their loyalty to the Emperor and the Imperial Truth.

 

Luthor gathers all the Fallen, sends the most chaotic and disloyal to die on the battlefields while keeping those loyal to the Imperium safe. Once the Lion returns, Luthor presents them to bolster the newly reformed First Legion. With a formidable army (Dark Angels, all successors, and the Fallen formed together), the Lion may very well lead a crusade to put the Imperium back to the way the Emperor wanted it.

 

Would make sense of the new artwork showing the interrogator chaplain dragging an Ultramarine lieutenant with a sergeant in a cell

Where can i find this artwork ?

It's fan art. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

[Vexillia Primus]

Didn't know it was fan made. Looks well enough that I thought it was official. Only ever seen it as memes

[Gederas]

Didn't know it was fan made. Looks well enough that I thought it was official. Only ever seen it as memes

Dude. It's a picture with 3D rendered models (probably Blender, Poser or Maya).

 

GW has NEVER USED THAT. Ever. It doesn't fit their art style for their codices or artworks.

[Vexillia Primus]

Like I said, I didn't know. I don't pay that close attention to art styles and all that. I do appreciate it being pointed out, but you don't have to hammer the point that hard after I already admitted to being wrong about it.

[Berzul]

In any case, I do think it just might be that the Lion will return as an antagonist to Guilliman's new Imperium, with a repenting Luther gathering the Fallen to his side.

 

Or, I find the theory crafting about it entertaining, rather.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Berzul

[UtariOnzo]

Lion returning would be interesting, but we’ve had this discussion before on these very forums.

 

Lion wouldn’t cause a rift or split in the Imperium, as much as he disagreed with Guilliman, ultimately he is loyal to the core, it was he that stated “Loyalty is its own reward.” He of all people would understand now is not the time to cause a schism, and much like Imperium Secundus, he would I imagine begrudgingly follow Guilliman’s direction to keep what’s left of the Imperium together, especially since the Regent has the Emperor’s own direct authority.

 

I think the deal with Luther is either he’s going to turn his back on the whole seeking redemption thing and bring about a Fallen invasion, OR he’s gathering Fallen to march in the Imperium/Lion’s aid in some manner as part of the plot hooks of Cypher’s machinations to save all of the Fallen. I think Luther’s and the Lion’s destinies are thoroughly intertwinned with Cypher’s journey, and I believe the whole Psychic Awakening campaign is where we’ll see this plot’s finale!

[bevulf]

I dont believe that luther will ever side with Lion or more likely that Lion will ever agree to that. Luther betrayed him, turned to chaos and is beyond redemption although he may think otherwise. I see on one side mustered by azrael legion sized unforgiven, on the other side fallen with luther. Lion will lead the unforgiven against luther and his fallen in the unforgiven way: repent or die!

[Vexillia Primus]

Only GW has the power to say what will happen. Everyone has their own theories, and only time will tell on what happens.

 

My only reasoning for my theory is the Lion's willingness to crush Imperium Secundus if Guilliman was empire building to replace the Emperor. The Lion might see it as a 'fool me once' kind of situation.

 

Just fun to speculate. If past moves by GW are an indication on Dark Angels' future, the Lion very well could be the last Primarch to return.

[Solrac]

I dont believe that luther will ever side with Lion or more likely that Lion will ever agree to that. Luther betrayed him, turned to chaos and is beyond redemption although he may think otherwise. I see on one side mustered by azrael legion sized unforgiven, on the other side fallen with luther. Lion will lead the unforgiven against luther and his fallen in the unforgiven way: repent or die!

 

After Luther struck down the Lion he regretted doing so and realized what he had done. At that moment the ruinous powers struck out with the powers of the warp and scattered the Fallen.

 

Whether the Lion will forgive Luther is a different story. Luther would join with the Lion if given the choice. I think the only reason he has stayed alive this long is to accept forgiveness from the Lion in the hope he would be offered it.

[Phoebus]

It’s very nice to speculate on what might happen, but it’s anyone’s guess what will happen. I mean, it’s not like the Lion has exactly been depicted as a paragon of sensibility in the last couple of Heresy novels he appeared in.

 

Luther could very well turn to darkness again. It’s worth remembering that, despite his claims of repentance, he was insane and had been under the sway of Chaos. There’s no guarantee that Marbas couldn’t turn him once more — especially given his shattered psychological state.

 

Alternately, Luther could be a dupe. He may be used by Marbas as a symbol for the Fallen to rally to, with the real aim being to bring them under his sphere of influence.

 

Either way, the idea that the Lion would see ten thousand year-old renegades, many of whom are devoted servants of the Ruinous Powers, as warriors to be trusted is a stretch. Cypher, on the other hand — depending on which person bearing that title survived to the 42nd millennium, and whether he held fealty to the Lion before the sundering of Caliban — might be brought back “to the light.”