New iron father > Azrael?

[FarFromSam]

So, Have yall seen the new rules for the new Iron hands forgefather?  Well, remember when Azrael's Invul bubble could affect vehicles and GW said, "that's too strong"  Well, I guess that rule doesn't apply when you're primaris (or want to sell models.)   Not only can he give out the silightly lowered Azrael aura, but he can make a unit shoot at 2BS.  Which sounds lovely on a hellblasters squad... Or a degraded profile landraider...  Also, he has SEVEN wounds... T5, 5 S7 -2 2D attacks.... But the real kick in the pants is that while, Azrael lost his Relic armor The Protector (i think was the name, 2+ 6+++) this IH guy has a 2+ 5+FNP.

 

IDK it's a bummer to see GW give other marines stronger unique rules that prior to this guy were exclusive to the first.   Might be running Green hands for a bit.

[UtariOnzo]

It sucks yes, and it is indeed a means to sell models, but Army of the Season comes and goes. I choose to collect and play Dark Angels because they were my first love and I’ve stuck with them through feast and famine. Complaining about what other Chapters get might be cathartic but IDK, I’m happy to wait and see what potential we might have from a codex update

[Berzul]

Reminds me of how a fellow Tau player felt in mungaming group when they gave marines a 5+ overwatch and a stratagem-based For the Greater Good overwatch rule, in the new codex.

 

In the end, rules will and do get reused and improved from one faction to the next.

 

It sucks seeing your own rules being copied and made better in someone else. But, thats the nature of the game. As UtariOnzo said, best play the army out of love, than out of any other reason.

[Isual]

Reminds me of how a fellow Tau player felt in mungaming group when they gave marines a 5+ overwatch and a stratagem-based For the Greater Good overwatch rule, in the new codex.

 

 

 Well, at least its nothing thats useful against him ;). I guess he didn't want to assault marines anyway.

[Deadman Wade]

These new rules for SM, Scars and Hands are very solid. I haven't played IH, but this character looks like too much "auto-include".

We still look better though :p

[Berzul]

 

 

Reminds me of how a fellow Tau player felt in mungaming group when they gave marines a 5+ overwatch and a stratagem-based For the Greater Good overwatch rule, in the new codex.

 

Well, at least its nothing thats useful against him ;). I guess he didn't want to assault marines anyway.

Hahahaha!! You'd be suprised! He plays a very aggressive army.

 

But, yeah.

 

It was most about feeling that what makes you unique, gets passed around.

[oldmanlee]

The Kicker is the iron farther is only 110pts well done gw no power creep at all with this guy

[Berzul]

70 points cheaper

Grants a save to units, not models

They just need to be within, not wholly within his aura

Can affect vehicles

 

... Damn.

[oldmanlee]

70 points cheaper

Grants a save to units, not models

They just need to be within, not wholly within his aura

Can affect vehicles

... Damn.

Yeah really good not broken at all when you think of all the other things they have going for them

[Berzul]

 

70 points cheaper

Grants a save to units, not models

They just need to be within, not wholly within his aura

Can affect vehicles

... Damn.

Yeah really good not broken at all when you think of all the other things they have going for them

But, hey, its 5++, not 4++. That makes it balanced, sort of? O_o

[oldmanlee]

 

 

70 points cheaper

Grants a save to units, not models

They just need to be within, not wholly within his aura

Can affect vehicles

... Damn.

Yeah really good not broken at all when you think of all the other things they have going for them

But, hey, its 5++, not 4++. That makes it balanced, sort of? O_o

Yeah that is true I guess

[Hantheman]

It's totally busted. My competitive guild are stunned and even a little disgusted at it. Totally outrageous game balance.

[Deadman Wade]

Well, almost all useful SM characters were very expensive and underpowered compared to force-multiplying or beatstick xenos HQs. I mean, even in 5th edition the best close combat HQ was ork warboss who beat the crap out of any marine commander, except thunderwolves lords and Lysander, with S10 instant death while being twice as cheap. I don't see a big problem in SM HQs finally being both cheap AND powerful. Personally, I have had it with overpriced units and HQs that were a little bit tougher than xenos. I'm actually glad to see marines being cost-effective.

Also, unless GW will suffer it's usual "Oh crap, the last codex was too strong, we need to nerf the next one" syndrome, new SM rules make me wait for new DA codex with more optimism :)

[shabbadoo]

...this IH guy has a 2+ 5+FNP.

He has a 2+/5++/5+ FNP, because he gets his own Aura 5+ invulnerable save too. And his axe is as good as the Sword of Secrets. Ferrios is at least the Iron Hands Iron Father, or equivalent of their Chapter Master, and so I don't begrudge him a thing.

[Bryan Blaire]

Ferrios is at least the Iron Hands Iron Father, or equivalent of their Chapter Master, and so I don't begrudge him a thing.

I believe they've changed the lore on the Iron Father a bit, here's what it says about Ferrios:

Iron Father Malkaan Feirros is one of the oldest living warriors in the Iron Hands, and once even counted the current Chapter Master, Kardan Stronos, as his pupil. He has been a leading voice on the Iron Council – a conclave comprised of the Chapter’s Iron Fathers – for longer than anyone can remember, and through him the values held by the Iron Hands are kept in balance.

So he's one of several Iron Fathers and is specifically not the Chapter Master, which is Stronos.

 

Since he's one of the oldest IH, good bet he's an equivalent or more powerful warrior than the Chapter Master.

 

Really hope to see appropriately increased rules for Azrael when he comes out (expecting either Azrael or Belial to cross the Rubicon Primaris though).

[Berzul]

So, we got upstaged by a character that is not even the master of the chapter? Kinda feels bad, man.

 

But, at the same time, just imagine what Primaris Azrael will be able to do once he gets released!

[Gederas]

So, we got upstaged by a character that is not even the master of the chapter? Kinda feels bad, man.

 

But, at the same time, just imagine what Primaris Azrael will be able to do once he gets released!

He's also their Master of the Forge. Which, while Iron Hands have a funky organization, they only have one of.

 

So he's the oldest Iron Father, is older than their Chapter Master, and also the Master of the Forge. I would expect him to not be a slouch.

 

Also, yes. It does give me hope for Azrael. But then again, I also hope it's someone other than Azrael (if only because I've made Primaris Azrael, Ezekiel, Asmodai and Sammael already and I'm working on Belial :lol:)

[Bryan Blaire]

So, we got upstaged by a character that is not even the master of the chapter? Kinda feels bad, man.

 

But, at the same time, just imagine what Primaris Azrael will be able to do once he gets released!

I don't know - you really don't need to be "the best" at everything to be the Chapter Master. I'd actually rather the Chapter Master not be the best offensive, defensive, strategic, and tactical option for every single Chapter - that just makes everyone want to take him all the time, rather than selecting various characters that provide sufficiently different options.

 

I'd really like to see Azrael as primarily the Unforgiven's strategic option, providing extra CP with some Stratagems that really provide some interesting variation to warfare on the tabletop. Providing the defensive side could be his secondary aspect.