Devastation of Baal Inquiry (Spoilers)

[Aothaine]

Just want to make sure I understood the damage done to the Blood Angels. Pretty much everyone except 1st company and named characters were wiped out right? I mean, I don't even recall Dante working with any of his companies in the book once the fighting started. So would it be safe to say that all companies outside of 1st are now primaris? Even the recruit sarcophagi were wrecked.

[BluejayJunior]

I believe Karlean was leading elements of the !st company along with other companies away from Baal. And I don't remember reading anything about all the other Firstborn marines being wiped out. They definitely took a beating, but there were still a decent number of survivors. And I believe there were several hundred scouts that were raised afterwards. A good portion are probably Primaris now, but still Firstborn among them. 

[Spagunk]

So I will double spoiler this, just to be safe:

The entirety of the Blood angel line is basically down to 300-400 dudes total. This includes every successor chapter (sans-lamentors who never replied back). Dante presumes the Lamentors are either dead or are purposely distancing themselves.

Of the successor chapters that are left, only the flesh tearers made it out with decent number of about a hundred or so due to the Knights of Blood sacrificing themselves to the daemon horde.

If I remember correct, BA proper only had 100-ish surviving members. The entirety of the death company were eradicated, including those in the tower of amareo. Sanguinary guard were eradicated down to one surviving member. 

On the plus side, with the help of Cawl they did take on over 400 new neophytes but likely they're going to be all primaris due to Dante saying they are the future.

As far as big characters, Dante, Corbs and Mephy make it but a lot of company captains bite it. I don't remember if they addressed Lemartes but I assume he wasn't there since the book doesn't touch anything with him. Astorath was MIA on a different mission so he should still be alive.

 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

So I will double spoiler this, just to be safe:

 

The entirety of the Blood angel line is basically down to 300-400 dudes total. This includes every successor chapter (sans-lamentors who never replied back). Dante presumes the Lamentors are either dead or are purposely distancing themselves.

 

Of the successor chapters that are left, only the flesh tearers made it out with decent number of about a hundred or so due to the Knights of Blood sacrificing themselves to the daemon horde.

 

If I remember correct, BA proper only had 100-ish surviving members. The entirety of the death company were eradicated, including those in the tower of amareo. Sanguinary guard were eradicated down to one surviving member.

 

On the plus side, with the help of Cawl they did take on over 400 new neophytes but likely they're going to be all primaris due to Dante saying they are the future.

 

As far as big characters, Dante, Corbs and Mephy make it but a lot of company captains bite it. I don't remember if they addressed Lemartes but I assume he wasn't there since the book doesn't touch anything with him. Astorath was MIA on a different mission so he should still be alive.

 

 

So glad we can have successor chapters that didnt fight on Baal...

[Panzer]

The Blood Angels created regular Marines parallel to Primaris after DoB.

So even if they were all wiped out there would still be regular Marines around now.

[Lynnean]

The Blood Angels created regular Marines parallel to Primaris after DoB.

 

So even if they were all wiped out there would still be regular Marines around now.

Thats what i thought as well, i read it somewhere but can't seem to find the source again.

[dread05]

If I remember correctly, the 1st 2nd and 5th companies were on Cadia at the time of the Devastation. The 5th was lost to the black rage almost entirley though.

[Spyros]

During the Devastation the Blood Angels 1st, 2nd and 5th companies were in the Diamor campaign, battling traitor astartes. The 7th edition campaign books "Traitor's Hate" and Angel's Blade" cover this.

After their return to Baal, the remaining total strength of the chapter does not exceed 300. That's Blood Angels and it doesn't include numbers from the other successor chapters involved in the Devastation. According to the book:

"Castigon, Raxietal, Zedrenael, and Sendroth had all fallen in the defence. Behelmor and Asante slain as the Blade of Vengeance came down. As yet firm casualty numbers were unavailable, but Dante did not expect the total survivors of the Blood Angels to exceed three hundred."

 

It's not that bad actually, because...

In 996.M40 in the Secoris System the Blood Angels assaulted an unnamed Space Hulk. The entire chapter was deployed. This campaign ultimately proved disastrous, with the Blood Angels facing an unending tide of Genestealers and finally retreating with only fifty Battle-Brothers surviving from their entire Chapter...

This info comes as a small backstory for the 3rd edition Space Hulk, and as a result that costly mistake is not repeated in 589.M41 when the assault on the Space Hulk Sin of Damnation is done using only Terminators.

[Aothaine]

Interesting. Thank you everyone for all this info!

[Majkhel]

DoB specifically mentions Astorath is alive after Diamor disaster, as well as "Librarians, Sendini (Captain od the 5th Company) and those with either protection or great will".

Karlaen, Sendini, Borgio, Aphael, Machiavi and Astorath are then listwed standing on the Arx Murus after the battle.

[Leonaides]

It's also worth remembering that we can create new marines in a year, unlike the 10yrs or so for other chapters. Then it's just a matter of training them.

[Aothaine]

It's also worth remembering that we can create new marines in a year, unlike the 10yrs or so for other chapters. Then it's just a matter of training them.

 

 

Ohhh snap! Really? I don't remember reading anything that speeds up the process of them being full astartes after a year. I thought they had to be entombed multiple times. Have a source on this?

[BluejayJunior]

I know it's in Dante. But Blood Angels implant everything, other than black carapace, at once during their time in the sarcophagus. 

[Spagunk]

Not to be a broken record book but HH book 8 points out that the geneseed is actually incredibly malleable with regards to candidates. This was done purposely as the emperor indended ba Marines to be dropped in and forgotten until the main fleet could come by to extract a pacified battlefield.

 

The geneseed is supposed to be able to repair even the most damaged genomes into paragons of battle and appearence. So not only does it quickly get marines to the field but also can reverse some levels of genetic damage.

 

If you can get your hands on book 8, I would recommend it to anyone that's hardcore into BA lore.

[Leonaides]

One of the changes the codex brought in was that marines would be implanted slower and more carefully resulting in more stable/less prone to potential problems. However the bar's seem to have ignored that bit and carried on with the original method.

 

It's one of those bits that a lot of people gloss over but never really think through the implications of, like the codex stating that from now on chapters would only receive their own geneseed for new recruits.

 

Now consider what that means was happening prior to the codex being written if it states that it was to stop.

[Arkhanist]

There's a brief blurb in the current codex about how they're still using the sarcophagus process for conventional marines at least.

 

"From the Apothecarion the aspirants are taken to the Hall of Sarcophagi and each is placed within a mighty golden sarcophagus. Life-support nodes are attached to them and for the next year they are fed intravenously with a mixture of nutrients and the blood of Sanguinius while the gene-seed does its work. ... When the aspirants emerge from their sarcophagi they are forever changed. ... They are ready to begin their training as Space Marines."

 

At the end of DoB, they also inducted all the suitable human survivors from the final battle at the Arx Angelicum - several thousand - as aspirants, and funnelled the survivors into outsized scout companies. They also got the greyshield Primaris reinforcements from the Indomitus crusade, along with additional Primaris made on Baal using Cawl's mechines. Plus the survivors of the Diamor campaign, including much of the 1st company. There's also the interesting nugget from Guilliman that the Angels could terraform Baal or its moons if they wanted to - and given the civilian population losses, they may need to to get a stable recruitment base again.

 

So anyway the BA and surviving successors were reinforced with fresh scouts, and Primaris. So they should have a solid core of Firstborn veterans, along with younger Firstborn and Primaris.

 

One of the Psychic Awakening events (from digging into the website) is going to be based around Baal, so we should get some updated fluff of what's been happening in the Dark Imperium since. Spear of the Emperor paints a grim picture of only being to make short warp jumps without the Astronomican and no reinforcements.

[Klod]

 

It's also worth remembering that we can create new marines in a year, unlike the 10yrs or so for other chapters. Then it's just a matter of training them.

 

 

Ohhh snap! Really? I don't remember reading anything that speeds up the process of them being full astartes after a year. I thought they had to be entombed multiple times. Have a source on this?

 

You should read "Dante" by Guy Haley then. It's basically a Blood Angel's player Bible.

[Captain_Krash]

Real question here though...Did Seth allow the Flesh Tearers to accept Primaris reinforcements?

 

Krash

[Klod]

Real question here though...Did Seth allow the Flesh Tearers to accept Primaris reinforcements?

 

Krash

He did. The Chapter needed replenishment so it doesn't matter if he likes them or not.

[Captain_Krash]

Except when it does though. I mean Dark Angels were basically pushing their "reinforcements" directly into meat grinders to Kill them off. I'd really like to see something from Seth of his opinion on them expanded.

 

Krash

[BluejayJunior]

 

 

It's also worth remembering that we can create new marines in a year, unlike the 10yrs or so for other chapters. Then it's just a matter of training them.

 

 

Ohhh snap! Really? I don't remember reading anything that speeds up the process of them being full astartes after a year. I thought they had to be entombed multiple times. Have a source on this?

 

You should read "Dante" by Guy Haley then. It's basically a Blood Angel's player Bible.

 

Plus it's one of the best 40K books anyway. At least in my opinion. Definitely one of the best non-ADB written books. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Not to be a broken record book but HH book 8 points out that the geneseed is actually incredibly malleable with regards to candidates. This was done purposely as the emperor indended ba Marines to be dropped in and forgotten until the main fleet could come by to extract a pacified battlefield.

 

The geneseed is supposed to be able to repair even the most damaged genomes into paragons of battle and appearence. So not only does it quickly get marines to the field but also can reverse some levels of genetic damage.

 

If you can get your hands on book 8, I would recommend it to anyone that's hardcore into BA lore.

 

Is that the Forgeworld Horus Heresy books?

[Spagunk]

 

Not to be a broken record book but HH book 8 points out that the geneseed is actually incredibly malleable with regards to candidates. This was done purposely as the emperor indended ba Marines to be dropped in and forgotten until the main fleet could come by to extract a pacified battlefield.

 

The geneseed is supposed to be able to repair even the most damaged genomes into paragons of battle and appearence. So not only does it quickly get marines to the field but also can reverse some levels of genetic damage.

 

If you can get your hands on book 8, I would recommend it to anyone that's hardcore into BA lore.

 

Is that the Forgeworld Horus Heresy books?

 

Yes.

[Vermintide]

My own take:

 

Of all the successor chapters that showed up, it is unlikely that any of them committed their full strength. There will have been detachments already engaged in other campaigns, too far away to reach Baal, or otherwise ending up stranded in the warp and showing up after the fighting had ended. There will be plenty of survivors who simply don't take part.

 

The galaxy is a big place and those chapters were spread out all over it. Remember how warp travel is unreliable and perilous and sometimes reinforcements show up entire centuries after wars have ended? It is implausible and contradicts pre-existing lore to believe that calling on the successor chapters means every successor showed up and joined the fight, in full strength, and in time.

 

Try not to worry about it too much, the concept of "canon" only applies very loosely in this setting IMO.

[Spyros]

I agree that there are always survivors, GW will use every trick that suits the narrative. The book says that some successor chapters arrived at full strength for the battle and indeed some were completely wiped out.

By the wiki's count, Angels Excelsis, Golden Sons, Burning Blood, Brothers of Jarad, Angels Glorious, and 3 other unnamed Chapters destroyed (8 Chapters), 6 more Chapters reduced to non-combat status, and all remaining Chapters reduced to less than half of their number, with the Blood Angels numbering less than 300.