White Scars Assault Efficiency vs. Others

[Prot]

I originally just put this in Raven Guard, but I really don't know the rules well enough to be convinced of which chapter is going to be a little more capable on the assault front. I understand it's two different ways of getting to the fight. But if we're talking strictly facing off in close combat, which army will have more potential in the fight phase?

 

Here's my post from the Raven Guard forum.

 

 

I'm trying to read between the lines for good assault (and secondarily character assassination) in these Supplements.

 

Would you guys say that for full out assault that Raven Guard or White Scars will be more effective at it? RG seem less obvious, but not necessarily 'weaker' at assault. 

 

In my meta facing shooting castles, and character bubbles, or even just flat out Flyer Eldar Airshow is feeling really... grindy right now for me. Although I have a massive Chaos Space Marine army (not- daemons-), it flat out does not work. It has moments, but is far too weak, and requires blobs of Plaguebearers to have a shot of surviving First Contact. (not something I want to ally with.)

 

"other" marines are going to be, or already are, proficient at medium range shooting, but relying on re-rolls and strats, which is fine. My Ultra's play that game plenty well, but I want to break out of that playstyle. 

 

So framing this around a fairly competitive environment,  is RG the kind of army that will be going toe-to-toe with the Tau's, Astra's, etc, etc? Or are they going to be just a sneaker 'mid range' firepower army -complimented- by specialty assault?

 

Would White Scars bring a full brunt of assault units to greater effect in such a meta?

 

What's your take on it?

 

Any thoughts? 

 

[MeltaRange]

Well, we haven't seen the RG book yet, unless it's been leaked and I didn't know about it! I have seen some leaks and am keeping those in mind. (things like Master of Ambush, Infiltrators, Shadowstep, and Strike from the Shadows are all known at this point)

 

So right now, if the question is: who has a more viable potential "all-out-assault" army then I think it's White Scars and will continue to be White Scars.  And just for the record, when I say all-out-assault, the premise of that statement is that the army is weighed heavily towards assault but still brings other things to help deliver/facilitate the assault aspect...in other words, it's not just bringing the WS equivalent of a Kytan and 6 Rhinos filled with Berserkers.  All-out-assault still means balanced.

 

The potential of White Scars as an all-out-assault army depends entirely on a few key units & abilities (there are other topics that cover these in detail) but for me, the overarching theme that makes the army work is that you are achieving solid points efficiency by squeezing everything out of a Marine stat line and his standard equipment.  The duality and redundancy of your core units (Intercessors, Aggressors, and Bikers for me) means that you're not relying on expensive "assault only" units to bring the majority of your combat punch.  With the points not spent there, you can bring even more of your core units.  White Scars makes this exploitation of the Marine stat line achievable because of their speed.

 

So, 1 marine with an auto-bolt rifle is (realistically, not just theoretically) a threat to put out 6 str4 attacks in a turn for only 18pts.  A Biker can toss out 7 for 23pts. That, at least for me, is the mantra that makes this work.  Can RG either achieve something like this from their core units, or will their style be completely different?  My guess is their core units will not be able to reach the sheer power of WS in the assault doctrine due to Devastating Charge (and the ability to fall back and charge)...but perhaps they can do it sooner than turn 3 or perhaps they can do it better for 1 turn or something like that.

 

Overall, I think it shakes out that White Scars end up being a better "all-out-assault" army because their core units really double as assault units (meaning that every unit is essentially an assault unit) but also have the duality to deal with screens in order to achieve assault; and WS have the mobility to achieve better board control/have a large threat radius on turn 1. (particularly if RG assault viability is centered around coming in from reserves)

Edited September 15, 2019 by MeltaRange

[Rocket]

Main differences:

Mobility- Raven have greater deployment mobility for infantry, But Scars have good deployment for any unit (infantry, bikes, vehicles).

Assault: Scars have more that enable making successful charges and are stronger against anything turn 3 onwards. Raven are stronger only against character from turn 2.

Defense: Raven have better general defense. Scars rely on vehicles, or being in assault, for defense.

 

I think in general, Raven are close range shooters with opportunistic assaults. Scars are semi mechanised assaulters that still heavily rely on early game shooting. Neither one is really a dedicated assault army, but do happily match their background.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Rocket

[Relic]

Both have merits. White Scars have the raw power in warlord traits, psychic powers, relics and their special doctrine. 

 

Raven Guard have Genestealer Cult esque abilities and as everyone knows they are doing quite well!