5th Chaos God (other than Malal)

[TorvaldTheMild]

There has to be another warp god, which is why the Emperor; probably is a God of the warp similar to the Chaos Gods.  The Chaos gods survive on and are created by negative emotions and that has to be the case, because they don't try to propagate positive emotions, other than maybe Nurgle could be argued to so, but its mainly Joy and Slaanesh only propagates excess, but that still leaves a lot of other emotions like Altruism, which none of the gods feed on; to my knowledge that is.  Also if you think about it, the Emperor became his most powerful when the Galaxy was at war, where there has never been time when such altruism started to play out.  If you think about it, the amount of times when a person saves his battle brothers by jumping on a grenade or running through fire to lob a grenade into a barricade or bunker.  Anyone that has an interest in WW2 etc. you know how ridiculous the reason for soldiers earning medals are, I mean you'd think that that would only happen in films, like Desmond Doss, you'd never buy his story but it actually happened and all these amazing incidences happened frequently.

Edited September 15, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild

[Exilyth]

Putting it cautiously - the emperor does have a strong presence in the warp.
 
 
As for a 5th chaos god - there are multiple/many strong entities in the warp. The closest to the major 4 would be malice (see e.g. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gods_of_Chaos)

Edited September 15, 2019 by Exilyth

[TorvaldTheMild]

Putting it cautiously - the emperor does have a strong presence in the warp.

 

 

As for a 5th chaos god - there are multiple/many strong entities in the warp. The closest to the major 4 would be malice (see e.g. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gods_of_Chaos)

He has a precence in the warp but that is all the lore states.

 

I mentioned Malal you don't need to explain that.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

The gods/entities may of been born of the collected pooling of negative emotions but they are indeed sentient and self aware.

 

Other gods or at least lesser entities can indeed exist, but for the ones that have it may be fair to assume they get regularly consumed by the others.

 

I've often wondered about a good warp entity being created, the E has a presence down to his his sheer power level but its also firmly anchored in the material realm in human form. What if good gods were possible? Or if the chaos gods could be reflected in a mirror opposite.

 

4 good gods to mirror the 4 bad.

[TorvaldTheMild]

The gods/entities may of been born of the collected pooling of negative emotions but they are indeed sentient and self aware.

 

Other gods or at least lesser entities can indeed exist, but for the ones that have it may be fair to assume they get regularly consumed by the others.

 

I've often wondered about a good warp entity being created, the E has a presence down to his his sheer power level but its also firmly anchored in the material realm in human form. What if good gods were possible? Or if the chaos gods could be reflected in a mirror opposite.

 

4 good gods to mirror the 4 bad.

Well I think that the Emperor may be able to live completely in the warp if he dies in the materium, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all, and he may have been a normal man in the materium but he could have been born as a god when being interred on the throne, as Slaanesh was born much later.  But I do think if the Emperor isn't a new God then there has to be some sort of God that is benevolant, its kinda dumb that there isn't.  As for other gods in the warp like the Eldar ones, they were never really on par with the Chaos gods, I mean Slaanesh alone ran through most of them.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Well we have yet to see how Ynnead will turn out. Might show that "positive"* gods can manifest or it could be Slaanesh Mk 2 in disguise to fool them into finishing what they have started. The presence of Ynnead shows that you can willfully direct emotions towards the creation of something new but time will tell exactly what direction it will ultimately manifest.

 

 

The question I've often asked myself is, is the negativity directed towards the empowerment of the Emperor or a god in his image built off of the worship of the God-Emperor offset enough by the positive aspects. Xenophobia, sacrifice, and torture are all hard baked into the existence of the faith through the actions and desires of the faithful. You can have altruistic prayers for others but how many more of the prayers are mired in self want**? How many are piously slain on the Alter of the God-Emperor*** in the name of Xenophobia, not being what the Ecclesiarchy deems human, for being born a psyker to feed the throne, for the advancement and raise in power of an Inquisitor or his sect? What affect does torturing people to prove loyalty to the Imperium in the name of the God-Emperor actually impart into the immaterium and what affect does that have on the warp itself?

 

Do positive emotions have the same amount of "power" as that of the negative emotion? Is the reason we have seen no "good" warp gods because it takes 2x or 3x the amount of "energy" to begin manifesting them?

 

Overall I don't know what else might be out there. Is the Emperor a Warp Entity or maybe he is something akin to what The Eldar Gods were/are**** before Slaanesh. We don't even really know what the Eldar gods were. Were/are they positive warp entities or were they something else?

 

In my own head cannon I still like Malal to be part of the world but that is head cannon and not really answering the question. I think that there might be a whole slew of warp entities that exist in the warp but that they aren't powerful enough to be a dominant force, that they keep low and help in mostly unnoticed ways as to protect themselves from being preyed upon by things like the Big Four.

 

Sorry about the rant...

 

* For your faction.

** Sometime altruism can be an evil unto itself and does the negative from that action have more clout? Sometimes we ask to help other just to serve our own desires and what we have to gain.

*** Metaphorically speaking.

**** We don't know much about what Cegorach is, he is out there doing things, stealing souls from Slaanesh while being an active force in our own deminsion but staying hidden to stay protected.

 

Edit: Some reworking for missing words and expanding on a thought.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Legionnaire of the VIIth

[TorvaldTheMild]

Well we have yet to see how Ynnead will turn out. Might show that "positive"* gods can manifest or it could be Slaanesh Mk 2 in disguise to fool them into finishing what they have started. The presence of Ynnead shows that you can willfully direct emotions towards the creation of something new but time will tell exactly what direction it will ultimately manifest.

 

 

The question I've often asked myself is, is the negativity directed towards the empowerment of the Emperor or a god in his image built off of the worship of the God-Emperor offset enough by the positive aspects. Xenophobia, sacrifice, and torture are all hard baked into the existence of the faith through the actions and desires of the faithful. You can have altruistic prayers for others but how many more of the prayers are mired in self want**? How many are piously slain on the Alter of the God-Emperor*** in the name of Xenophobia, not being what the Ecclesiarchy deems human, for being born a psyker to feed the throne, for the advancement and raise in power of an Inquisitor or his sect? What affect does torturing people to prove loyalty to the Imperium in the name of the God-Emperor actually impart into the immaterium and what affect does that have on the warp itself?

 

Do positive emotions have the same amount of "power" as that of the negative emotion? Is the reason we have seen no "good" warp gods because it takes 2x or 3x the amount of "energy" to begin manifesting them?

 

Overall I don't know what else might be out there. Is the Emperor a Warp Entity or maybe he is something akin to what The Eldar Gods were/are**** before Slaanesh. We don't even really know what the Eldar gods were. Were/are they positive warp entities or were they something else?

 

In my own head cannon I still like Malal to be part of the world but that is head cannon and not really answering the question. I think that there might be a whole slew of warp entities that exist in the warp but that they aren't powerful enough to be a dominant force, that they keep low and help in mostly unnoticed ways as to protect themselves from being preyed upon by things like the Big Four.

 

Sorry about the rant...

 

* For your faction.

** Sometime altruism can be an evil unto itself and does the negative from that action have more clout? Sometimes we ask to help other just to serve our own desires and what we have to gain.

*** Metaphorically speaking.

**** We don't know much about what Cegorach is, he is out there doing things, stealing souls from Slaanesh while being an active force in our own deminsion but staying hidden to stay protected.

 

Edit: Some reworking for missing words and expanding on a thought.

Yeah but any negative emotions felt by the Imperium would just bolster the gods, plus all that xenophobia etc. has fed the Chaos gods.  Yes there is so much evil in the Imperium but there is also so much good and when you are talking about trillions of people in a galaxy that is bigger geographically as the Eldars then that is going to do something.  Plus there are worlds in the Imperium that are paradise worlds and even in the most chaotic hive worlds there is still a lot of good.  I mean you can't say that there is only evil and badness in the Imperium, during the Inquistion and the 100 years war there was still a lot of good.  Negative emotions are stronger but that isn't going to negate the emotions created in the name of good.  Slaanesh is the weakest god, but she'he isn't being subsumed by the other gods.

Edited September 15, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Does all negative emotion go to them, does the way you direct it matter? Does invoking the Emperor's "name" deprive the Chaos Gods from it while feeding it to something new? Do you think Ynnead will be the savior of the Eldar as the negative aspect that could manifest would be devoured by the Chaos Gods? Does intent or consequence matter more?

 

Edit: I never said that the positive emotions didn't matter, read the whole post, I even asked if you need more positive prayers than negative to manifest them and that is why we have yet to see one being a force in the galaxy. I even said at the end that I think that they do exist but that they are weak so do things as to not draw notice to ensure survival. I also never said the Imperium is 100% evil, I was just pointing out that negative actions were being commited in the name of "good" and the name of the "God-Emperor", action that might have an effect on any manifestation being created from their worship of him.

 

Edit 2: trying to make my statements more clear.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Legionnaire of the VIIth

[The Unseen]

Part of your confusion might be because GW has in recent years pushed Chaos into being a purely evil force.

 

Originally, the big four were all aspects of life itself, not just the negative aspects.

Nurgle is a fertility god, with emotional ties to compassion, and the joy of being alive.

Also the god of despair and entropy, but the first part is also important.

 

Tzeentch is the god of hope, ambition, and knowledge, but also mutation, deception, and madness.

 

Khorne has aspects for martial honor, loyalty, courage, etc, as well as senseless bloodletting and rage.

 

Slaanesh is the Eldar empire at its apex, with all that entails.

Luxury, pleasures from the simple to the extravagant, love itself, but also laziness, excess, lust, etc.

 

They don't represent just the negative aspects of their spheres of influence.

But negative emotions, or those emotions taken to their maddening apexes, are of course stronger than the more mundane ones, and the God's have a vested interest in setting up feedback loops for what feeds them.

 

The gods in the 41st Millenium are all part of Humanity, and vice versa, every action, saintly or demonic, ripples in that other place.

But the galaxy is an agonizing, horrific place much of the time.

And beings who can be more accurately described as psychic vortexes of endless power than consciousness' as we understand them, even when theyre being "nice" doesn't mean the mortals agree with the results.

 

As far as the emperor ascending or whatever, it won't ever matter because it will always break the setting no matter what happens, but there was an old bit of fan fiction written where the Emperor died and ascended into becoming the 5th in the pantheon, and he ended up being the god of stasis basically, which I liked.

All the souls sacrificed in the name of preserving the Imperium in all its glory and all its horror led to a god that led to listless apathy in its subjects.

Was a neat take, even if I disagree.

 

But at this point in the story, the reason Chaos is so interesting is that it's just humanity gazing into a mirror.

A horrific, biased mirror that likes to show us at our absolute worst, but a mirror nontheless.

It's inside us all, and only the most stalwart of souls can deny it completely, and as long as Humanity exists among the stars Chaos will always be there, just the other side of a gossamer veil across reality. And a single misstep and you might be on the other side.

 

Which makes the struggle against it narratively Man vs Himself on a massive scale, in an unwinnable fight.

The fight against chaos is a fight against human nature itself, which means it's a doomed endeavor without the Emperor around to cut us off from the Warp entirely, or guide us as a species into transcending that nature.

 

AKA, it is the 41st Millenium, and there is only war, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Edited September 15, 2019 by The Unseen

[Beren]

 

Well we have yet to see how Ynnead will turn out. Might show that "positive"* gods can manifest or it could be Slaanesh Mk 2 in disguise to fool them into finishing what they have started. The presence of Ynnead shows that you can willfully direct emotions towards the creation of something new but time will tell exactly what direction it will ultimately manifest.

 

 

The question I've often asked myself is, is the negativity directed towards the empowerment of the Emperor or a god in his image built off of the worship of the God-Emperor offset enough by the positive aspects. Xenophobia, sacrifice, and torture are all hard baked into the existence of the faith through the actions and desires of the faithful. You can have altruistic prayers for others but how many more of the prayers are mired in self want**? How many are piously slain on the Alter of the God-Emperor*** in the name of Xenophobia, not being what the Ecclesiarchy deems human, for being born a psyker to feed the throne, for the advancement and raise in power of an Inquisitor or his sect? What affect does torturing people to prove loyalty to the Imperium in the name of the God-Emperor actually impart into the immaterium and what affect does that have on the warp itself?

 

Do positive emotions have the same amount of "power" as that of the negative emotion? Is the reason we have seen no "good" warp gods because it takes 2x or 3x the amount of "energy" to begin manifesting them?

 

Overall I don't know what else might be out there. Is the Emperor a Warp Entity or maybe he is something akin to what The Eldar Gods were/are**** before Slaanesh. We don't even really know what the Eldar gods were. Were/are they positive warp entities or were they something else?

 

In my own head cannon I still like Malal to be part of the world but that is head cannon and not really answering the question. I think that there might be a whole slew of warp entities that exist in the warp but that they aren't powerful enough to be a dominant force, that they keep low and help in mostly unnoticed ways as to protect themselves from being preyed upon by things like the Big Four.

 

Sorry about the rant...

 

* For your faction.

** Sometime altruism can be an evil unto itself and does the negative from that action have more clout? Sometimes we ask to help other just to serve our own desires and what we have to gain.

*** Metaphorically speaking.

**** We don't know much about what Cegorach is, he is out there doing things, stealing souls from Slaanesh while being an active force in our own deminsion but staying hidden to stay protected.

 

Edit: Some reworking for missing words and expanding on a thought.

 

Yeah but any negative emotions felt by the Imperium would just bolster the gods, plus all that xenophobia etc. has fed the Chaos gods. Yes there is so much evil in the Imperium but there is also so much good and when you are talking about trillions of people in a galaxy that is bigger geographically as the Eldars then that is going to do something. Plus there are worlds in the Imperium that are paradise worlds and even in the most chaotic hive worlds there is still a lot of good. I mean you can't say that there is only evil and badness in the Imperium, during the Inquistion and the 100 years war there was still a lot of good. Negative emotions are stronger but that isn't going to negate the emotions created in the name of good. Slaanesh is the weakest god, but she'he isn't being subsumed by the other gods.

Tell me, why exactly would the God-Emperor get to 'cherry-pick' which emotions feed him and which don't?

 

Besides, it's arguable that whatever good there is in the Imperium is a reflection of the better parts of human nature rather than the Imperium possessing good in itself, just as Chaos is a reflection of the worst parts of nature, existing prior to and inspite of the Imperium.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Beren

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

 

 

snip

Yeah but any negative emotions felt by the Imperium would just bolster the gods, plus all that xenophobia etc. has fed the Chaos gods. Yes there is so much evil in the Imperium but there is also so much good and when you are talking about trillions of people in a galaxy that is bigger geographically as the Eldars then that is going to do something. Plus there are worlds in the Imperium that are paradise worlds and even in the most chaotic hive worlds there is still a lot of good. I mean you can't say that there is only evil and badness in the Imperium, during the Inquistion and the 100 years war there was still a lot of good. Negative emotions are stronger but that isn't going to negate the emotions created in the name of good. Slaanesh is the weakest god, but she'he isn't being subsumed by the other gods.

Tell me, why exactly would the God-Emperor get to 'cherry-pick' which emotions feed him and which don't?

 

Besides, its arguable that whatever good there is in the Imperium is a reflection of the better parts of human nature rather than the Imperium possessing good in itself, just as Chaos is a reflection of the worst parts of nature, existing prior to and inspite of the Imperium.

 

I wasn't attempting to say that the "God-Emperor" got to cherry pick what was fed to him. I was working off the assumption of a possibility that directing the prayers and emotions towards him mattered for his manifestation/empowerment (see how Ynnead is being formed, unless I'm misinterpreting that). The concept I was entertaining is that it is the individual who gives purpose to it through prayer or invocation of the concept and or being's "name" and that it would drive that emotion and intent towards it instead of it being set free in the warp to be the sustenance of whatever wished to feed off of it.

 

I made no firm commitment on any of this really, thus why I approached it with the questions. I was forming the post along the lines of, is this how it works or is it not? We would need to define how things work before we can actually answer the question asked about more entities within the warp; or GW to write about more of them as it is their world to create and deny as they see fit. Anything else but what is officially stated is head cannon and has no real weight at how it actually works.

 

Just ignore me, wasn't paying enough attention to who he was quoting...

Edited September 15, 2019 by Legionnaire of the VIIth

[TorvaldTheMild]

Does all negative emotion go to them, does the way you direct it matter? Does invoking the Emperor's "name" deprive the Chaos Gods from it while feeding it to something new? Do you think Ynnead will be the savior of the Eldar as the negative aspect that could manifest would be devoured by the Chaos Gods? Does intent or consequence matter more?

 

Edit: I never said that the positive emotions didn't matter, read the whole post, I even asked if you need more positive prayers than negative to manifest them and that is why we have yet to see one being a force in the galaxy. I even said at the end that I think that they do exist but that they are weak so do things as to not draw notice to ensure survival. I also never said the Imperium is 100% evil, I was just pointing out that negative actions were being commited in the name of "good" and the name of the "God-Emperor", action that might have an effect on any manifestation being created from their worship of him.

 

Edit 2: trying to make my statements more clear.

Well if it did, they would actively try and make humans feel good to propagate those emotions but they don't.  They only care about causing suffering and suffering is one of the strongest emotions but there are positive emotions that are just as strong like killing yourself to protect others, so it would be odd if they didn't try to enact situations where humans produced these emotions if they are so strong.

Part of your confusion might be because GW has in recent years pushed Chaos into being a purely evil force.

 

Originally, the big four were all aspects of life itself, not just the negative aspects.

Nurgle is a fertility god, with emotional ties to compassion, and the joy of being alive.

Also the god of despair and entropy, but the first part is also important.

 

Tzeentch is the god of hope, ambition, and knowledge, but also mutation, deception, and madness.

 

Khorne has aspects for martial honor, loyalty, courage, etc, as well as senseless bloodletting and rage.

 

Slaanesh is the Eldar empire at its apex, with all that entails.

Luxury, pleasures from the simple to the extravagant, love itself, but also laziness, excess, lust, etc.

 

They don't represent just the negative aspects of their spheres of influence.

But negative emotions, or those emotions taken to their maddening apexes, are of course stronger than the more mundane ones, and the God's have a vested interest in setting up feedback loops for what feeds them.

 

The gods in the 41st Millenium are all part of Humanity, and vice versa, every action, saintly or demonic, ripples in that other place.

But the galaxy is an agonizing, horrific place much of the time.

And beings who can be more accurately described as psychic vortexes of endless power than consciousness' as we understand them, even when theyre being "nice" doesn't mean the mortals agree with the results.

 

As far as the emperor ascending or whatever, it won't ever matter because it will always break the setting no matter what happens, but there was an old bit of fan fiction written where the Emperor died and ascended into becoming the 5th in the pantheon, and he ended up being the god of stasis basically, which I liked.

All the souls sacrificed in the name of preserving the Imperium in all its glory and all its horror led to a god that led to listless apathy in its subjects.

Was a neat take, even if I disagree.

 

But at this point in the story, the reason Chaos is so interesting is that it's just humanity gazing into a mirror.

A horrific, biased mirror that likes to show us at our absolute worst, but a mirror nontheless.

It's inside us all, and only the most stalwart of souls can deny it completely, and as long as Humanity exists among the stars Chaos will always be there, just the other side of a gossamer veil across reality. And a single misstep and you might be on the other side.

 

Which makes the struggle against it narratively Man vs Himself on a massive scale, in an unwinnable fight.

The fight against chaos is a fight against human nature itself, which means it's a doomed endeavor without the Emperor around to cut us off from the Warp entirely, or guide us as a species into transcending that nature.

 

AKA, it is the 41st Millenium, and there is only war, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

No I've been collecting since 2nd edition, but that's old lore, If GW are pushing it to be evil then the lore goes with that.  SM's used to feel fear, doesn't mean they do now and in 2nd edition the gods were pretty evil, looking back on the Chaos codex I can't find any of that which you are stating.

Edited September 15, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild

[Beren]

 

 

 

SNIP

 

Yeah but any negative emotions felt by the Imperium would just bolster the gods, plus all that xenophobia etc. has fed the Chaos gods. Yes there is so much evil in the Imperium but there is also so much good and when you are talking about trillions of people in a galaxy that is bigger geographically as the Eldars then that is going to do something. Plus there are worlds in the Imperium that are paradise worlds and even in the most chaotic hive worlds there is still a lot of good. I mean you can't say that there is only evil and badness in the Imperium, during the Inquistion and the 100 years war there was still a lot of good. Negative emotions are stronger but that isn't going to negate the emotions created in the name of good. Slaanesh is the weakest god, but she'he isn't being subsumed by the other gods.

Tell me, why exactly would the God-Emperor get to 'cherry-pick' which emotions feed him and which don't?

Besides, its arguable that whatever good there is in the Imperium is a reflection of the better parts of human nature rather than the Imperium possessing good in itself, just as Chaos is a reflection of the worst parts of nature, existing prior to and inspite of the Imperium.

I wasn't attempting to say that the "God-Emperor" got to cherry pick what was fed to him. .

That comment was directed at Torvald actually. Edited September 15, 2019 by Beren

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Oops sorry I didn't pay enough attention... My post was so long compared to his comment I missed that you quoted him... Don't mind me I'll be in the corner.

[DeadFingers]

4 good gods to mirror the 4 bad.

Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne, Slaanesh.

Isha, Cegorach, Khaine, Ynnead.

 

The first three are pretty straightforward, the lifegiver, the schemer, the warrior. It's Slaanesh and Ynnead's relationship that's more complicated, and interesting too.

 

Ynnead is supposed to be the Eldar's savior, the force that will fight Slaanesh and free the Eldar from She Who Thirsts once and for all. But it's my pet theory that Slaanesh and Ynnead are two sides of the same coin, and the Avatar of Ynnead's suspiciously Slaaneshi form only makes the connection stronger. To me, they seem to be twisted manifestations of the Eros and Thanatos of the entire Eldar race. But in this case, Eros coming to life signified the doom of the Eldar, and Thanatos is their final hope for survival.

Edited September 15, 2019 by DeadFingers

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

 

 

 

SNIP

Yeah but any negative emotions felt by the Imperium would just bolster the gods, plus all that xenophobia etc. has fed the Chaos gods. Yes there is so much evil in the Imperium but there is also so much good and when you are talking about trillions of people in a galaxy that is bigger geographically as the Eldars then that is going to do something. Plus there are worlds in the Imperium that are paradise worlds and even in the most chaotic hive worlds there is still a lot of good. I mean you can't say that there is only evil and badness in the Imperium, during the Inquistion and the 100 years war there was still a lot of good. Negative emotions are stronger but that isn't going to negate the emotions created in the name of good. Slaanesh is the weakest god, but she'he isn't being subsumed by the other gods.

Tell me, why exactly would the God-Emperor get to 'cherry-pick' which emotions feed him and which don't?

Besides, its arguable that whatever good there is in the Imperium is a reflection of the better parts of human nature rather than the Imperium possessing good in itself, just as Chaos is a reflection of the worst parts of nature, existing prior to and inspite of the Imperium.

I wasn't attempting to say that the "God-Emperor" got to cherry pick what was fed to him. .

That comment was directed at Torvald actually.

 

Why exactly would the Emperor have to cherry pick the emotions that feed him?  If the chaos gods don't fed on positive emotions than some other entity would, the chaos gods pretty much just feed on negative emotions now.  To say that you'd have to be saying that the Chaos gods 'actively' choose the emotions they feed on, but they don't they came into being because of the emotions, like Slaanesh.  They don't have a choice in the matter.

Edited September 15, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m pretty sure the Eldar Gods are the Chaos Gods. All gods in 40k are the Chaos Gods. Also, there’s a fifth set of rules in the Daemons of the Ruinstorm list to represent Chaos’ conflict against itself. A cool little shout out to Malal. Edited September 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[TorvaldTheMild]

I’m pretty sure the Eldar Gods are the Chaos Gods. All gods in 40k are the Chaos Gods. Also, there’s a fifth set of rules in the Daemons of the Ruinstorm list to represent Chaos’ conflict against itself. A cool little shout out to Malal.

No all gods are warp gods, there is a difference.  The Eldar gods are not Chaos gods.

Edited September 15, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, the way I always interpreted it was that Chaos, at it's core, is the primal emotions Rage/Hope/Despair/Lust. Which God is the most powerful of those changes over time, and Khaine used to be Rage, until Slaanesh was "born", and shattered the strength of the Eldar giving Khaine primacy, so Khorne took over, etc. 

 

EDIT: All gods other than the C'Tan are Warp Gods, because they're in the Warp. Chaos is the Warp. Thus, Eldar gods are Chaos gods.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Lord_Caerolion

[TorvaldTheMild]

Yep, the way I always interpreted it was that Chaos, at it's core, is the primal emotions Rage/Hope/Despair/Lust. Which God is the most powerful of those changes over time, and Khaine used to be Rage, until Slaanesh was "born", and shattered the strength of the Eldar giving Khaine primacy, so Khorne took over, etc. 

 

EDIT: All gods other than the C'Tan are Warp Gods, because they're in the Warp. Chaos is the Warp. Thus, Eldar gods are Chaos gods.

Not so, there are other entities in that warp that aren't Chaos gods.  The chaos gods are the 4 gods and that's it, take the Emperor he exists in the warp by your logic he would absolutely be a chaos god.  Also the Eldar gods may be similar but they are completely opposed to the Chaos gods, to say they are chaos gods is way over simplified, to say they are made of the same stuff is more apt.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well the Emperor isn't a true Warp god, he's a soul that's so powerful that it's reached equality in power, or is at least near enough. Khorne, however, is Rage through human perspective, or fuelled by human Rage. Khaine is Eldar Rage. Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch aren't special in how they're formed, they developed as humans did. The only difference is that the Eldar purposefully created their gods during the War in Heaven, so have much more control over it, whereas Khorne has no such restrictions, evolving "natively", as it were. 

Gork/Mork exist as Ork Rage, but seem to be "unique" enough in mentality that they exist somewhat separately and self-contained compared to the rest of Rage. 

[TorvaldTheMild]

Well the Emperor isn't a true Warp god, he's a soul that's so powerful that it's reached equality in power, or is at least near enough. Khorne, however, is Rage through human perspective, or fuelled by human Rage. Khaine is Eldar Rage. Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch aren't special in how they're formed, they developed as humans did. The only difference is that the Eldar purposefully created their gods during the War in Heaven, so have much more control over it, whereas Khorne has no such restrictions, evolving "natively", as it were. 

Gork/Mork exist as Ork Rage, but seem to be "unique" enough in mentality that they exist somewhat separately and self-contained compared to the rest of Rage. 

Yeah but what I was saying is that the Emperor could have became a god when interred on the Throne.  Like you said if the Eldar gods could have been created then...

[Lord_Caerolion]

Similar, but different. The Emperor isn't "technically" a god, he's a psyker whose soul is so powerful there's no functional difference. The Eldar gods are "daemons" that were apparently intentionally created by the psychic Eldar. One's native, the other isn't.

[Kinstryfe]

The best I've been able to make sense of thirty years of fluff about the warp is that it's essentially full of giant blobby Venn diagrams representing abstract concepts that coalesce into something resembling sentience. The more of a similar emotional or symbolic shadow they absorb, the stronger they are. I really like the occasionally but not often enough used concept that there are many sentiences in the warp, it's just that for survival most of the smaller ones ally with or serve one of the larger entities. Just like Drach'nyen is "the first murder and the end of (human) empires), so to would other warp entities be born of a concept of symbolic action, and I like to think that the big 4 we see are the result of countless absorbtions, mergers, and acquisitions of various warp sentiences into the big powers. In the same way I love the ancient fluff that there are independent movers and shakers who fulfil their own niche and try to remain both independent of and off the radar of the larger gods, and that some may be weak enough so as to only manifest a few daemons at a time in real space compared to the endless legions of the Four. In effect I think the warp is home to countless "gods", it's just that the majority of them are weaker than even a greater daemon of the Four, jockeying for power that they will likely never possess. It's Game of Thrones with sentient maelstroms of emotional energy, except basically everyone except Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh tend to die.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Hence my liking of the whirlpool/storm analogy. There's the ocean (Rage), and one major whirlpool in the centre (Khorne). There's several other smaller whirlpools orbiting that one, constantly growing and shrinking in size. In fact, one used to be dominant (Khaine), before a new major whirlpool formed in Lust, which dragged it off-centre and caused it to shrink as a result, so the Khorne-whirlpool was able to "take up the space".

 

EDIT: To continue with this analogy, the daemons are individual "streams" of water within the larger whirlpools, and you've got some "independent" ones like the First Murder that start off by themselves, but eventually are drawn to within the Rage pool, etc. Eventually, the strength of some of these "independent" streams might gather strength, and actually form a little whirlpool of their own, orbiting one or more of the main 4, achieving the status of a minor god in their own right, or they could be drawn to feed directly from and into one of the main 4 pools, as a Greater Daemon (incredibly powerful, sometimes even more so than some independent "gods", but owing all their strength to something larger).

Edited September 16, 2019 by Lord_Caerolion