Aggressors or Centurions? . . . and How?

[Dracos]

I admit I have a dog in this fight .... kinda ... and I thought others might be interested in hashing out if either was more effective than the other as Raven Guard and who or how to (ab)use them

 

Myself, I've already built and painted 10 Aggressors using a variance on St.Lazarus awesome Black Templar conversions. The thing is with Raven Guard new abilities I'm thinking about shoving more durable units capable of assault in the opponents face. I keep looking at the Invictor warsuit as 

 

So either a third unit of Aggressors or find a conversion for Assault Centurions because the drill on the fist just doesn't work for me. These boys are so big and bad visually they belong in a Primaris army.

 

My current two-5 man squads of Aggressors have boltstorm gauntlets but lets assume a possible third unit of 6 flamestorm gauntet Aggressors compared to a 4 man Assault Centurion squad with Hurricane Bolters ... the points are all but identical. I hope I'm getting these numbers right

 

Aggressors 5" , 3+:

 - melee: 19 S8 D1-3 attacks -3 AP

 - ranged: 84 auto hit Range 8" 0 AP, flamer shots on average.

Centurions 4" , 2+:

 - melee: 13 S10 D3 attacks -4 AP

 - range: 48 BS3 + 28 0 AP, flamer shots on average.

 

I'm not counting the Aggressor ability to double pump because they will have to move to be in range to shoot even with Raven Guard shenanigans. I like the range of the Hurricane Bolters but the amount of shots even without the double pump for Aggressors in ludicrous. Either  way there is a lot of S4 shooting flying around the place.

 

I think just starting off, I might still go with the Aggressors. but as someone who has that, the S10 seems like an awful handy tool in the box for the extra hard targets. Plus Centurions even though they have less wounds, they have a better save for durability. 

 

I want to take a hard look at the book for the optimal buff. It should work the same for both but maybe there is a Primaris buff I haven't seen yet

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I think people undervalue one critical component of this debate: durability to small arms fire.

 

Both units are t5, but Cents are a 2+ vs the 3+ of the aggressors, and one more wound. When your opponent gets their GEQ screen blob toasted then a juicy shooting target charged, he is going to struggle after falling back to put either unit down with shooting. The 2+ save here will play a factor in how much your opponent has to use to remove the threat.

 

Also to consider is the Cents dont incur a -1 to hit like Aggressors do in melee. Also Cents ignore cover.

 

In your above example (4 cents vs 6 aggressors) assuming no re-rolls or debuffs, the cents kill ~27 GEQ models, and the Aggressors kill ~37 GEQ models. That's a lot of dead screen...but...the problem starts to be range. 37 models sounds great, but lots of units max at 10, 20, or 30. The issue then becomes Aggressor range and effectively splitting fire.

 

Personally I want both. Cents to serve as a great distraction carnifex and Aggressors to drift upfield laying down withering fire while the Cents buy 1-2 turns of time.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well you can plop aggressors down within bolt range with master of ambush so they can double tap, but then you'll probably be missing out the charge.

 

If you're going to be deepstrike or infiltrating centurions, I'd go with grav ones since the range is their only limiting factor really.

[Race Bannon]

Both yo.

 

Why?

 

Lead farming FTW

[Ishagu]

Both are fantastic. Aggressors are cheaper, and in numbers are very durable.

RG get around the range problems with both units.

[dode74]

Personally I think I'll be Master of Ambushing the Assault Centurions in and seeing if I can Infiltrate them another 4+d6" for 1CP (since both happen at the same time and it is nobody's turn you roll off).  I'll Infiltrating Aggressors forwards 5+d6" for 1CP, which will put them no further than 18" from the opponent's front line, and then only if you roll a 1 to advance.  I'll take the Assault Centurions in closer simply because I want them in melee.

[Dracos]

I forgot about Cents not having -1 to hit in melee. I also like your point on the Distraction Carnifex also a Vyper. I like having a centerpiece to an army and right now I plan on it being the Xiphon but I’m pretty sure long term I’ll be switching it out for another Infantry unit once I figure out which HQs are going to best synergize with my particular build/play style.

 

I love the Invictor model but I’m already trading away my old Dread / Knights / Contemptor / and maybe the second Xiphon. I’m really convinced a mobile (2 Impulsors for Hellblasters) Infantry army is where I want to be. It’s why the Raven Guard supplement is such a gift. It lets me play Aggressors and now maybe Centurions without expensive vehicle support.

 

Vypers comment about the Distraction Carnifex aspect of the Cents would also make the Impulsors less of a target ensuring they make it to the objectives I hope them to “overwatch” for the Intercessors advancing up from behind into the midfield. Shame to lose the Xiphon but I feel with RG we have enough other tools to Recon or threaten an opponents backfield that it’s the most expendable unit I have to swap out to add more Infantry. I keep eyeing the Eliminators but can’t find the proper role / points to get them in a list considering how I like to play usually. That could be said of most all the other Primaris Infantry though. :)

[Nusquam]

I like cents a lot more with their recent buff and now we can deploy them up front.

 

I have 6 aggressors for my fledgling Black Guard force and considering adding cents. I'm thinking Ambush and Infilrate up the cents. Then deploy the aggressors at the edge of my deployment and then infiltrate them up in the center to hold it down. Best part about this is I can also pull them back as well if I'm going second.

 

Cents seem to just be more expensive, but better, aggressors. So my struggle is the amount of cents. They will kill knights in CC easier, can move and double tap and can take 5 for just a little over 6 aggressors. Any particular stratagems that might benefit having both people have thought of?

[dode74]

Best part about this is I can also pull them back as well if I'm going second.

You don't even need to do that.  Both Infiltrate and Master of Ambush happen after the battle begins but before the first turn.  That means you know who is going first already and don't need to spend the CP on Infiltrate if it's not beneficial to do so.

 

I think I will choose Cents over Aggressors purely so I can spend the rest of my points on Van Vets and other units to maintain the melee pressure.  I tend to play smaller games (1250pts) though, so that will have an effect on my choices.  With more points I would probably take some SFTS Hellblasters, some Inceptors, and some more Intercessors/Incursors for board control.