LoS blocking terrain?

[Token]

How many play with line of sight blocking terrrain? Alot, little, none? Looking at GWs terrain, i think there doesnt seem to be all that much los blocking terrain, they have windows and stuff perhaps. Seems like shooty armies can benefit alot from being able to shoot at whatever.

 

Please excuse grammar, spelling mistakes and such.

[Karhedron]

I try to include some LOS blocking terrain in every game. I am lucky in that my local gaming club has a decent selection of both GW and non-GW terrain. If I run short, I try to put what there is near the centre.

 

Movement is an under-rated part of the game having too little terrain makes gun-line armies over-powered and melee armies even weaker than they already are in 8th.

[Volt]

Ideally speaking in a dawn of war deployment, around 45% or more of the board should be obscured from the other side.

[The Yncarne]

Typically 40% to 60% for infantry in my games.

[MARK0SIAN]

Lots of LoS terrain definitely makes games better imo. With the GW terrain, it really helps if you incorporate the tournament rules that the ground floor of ruins/buildings blocks LoS, even if you can technically see through it.

 

I’ve also played a game under a Fog of war rule that limited max range in terms of visibility. It started off very short range and increased every turn. I really liked it although it probably wouldn’t be great for every game. It definitely made the first turn or so much more about movement and positioning than simply shooting everything off the table.

[Vermintide]

Terrain is an interesting part of this game. The game barely works without it, but getting it right is difficult.

Just having a few chunks of LOS blocking terrain doesn't help dramatically in and of itself. Too much and the game drags on too long; too little and you can end up reducing the game to impassable kill-zones. You have to balance aesthetics and gameplay considerations. Terrain pieces have to be appropriately sized, appropriately spaced, and well laid out. I've seen tournament tables that resemble League of Legends maps, and that just makes me sad.

Weirdly, I don't remember this being a big problem in the games I played when I was younger. Terrain was nice, but optional, and when you had it, it was mostly just some books or cans you scattered around and used the power of imagination to transform into a planetary fortification. Things were far less shooty back then and I think that's part of the issue in itself- Gunline meta makes LOS blocking a necessity.

From the perspective of an online gamer, it becomes pretty clear that maps are a fundamental part of balance, and that applies just as well to the tabletop. I was musing a while ago with a friend that maybe GW should produce "maps" for specific missions- Nothing too restrictive, of course, but a rough blueprint, if you will, of where terrain should be set up. You could have something like 6 different ones and roll for it at the start of a match maybe. Optional of course (like everything else in the rules), but for those who want to see 40k balanced and "competitive" I think it would be a big help.

[The Yncarne]

@Vermontide: yes, I’ve been stoked to try Warcry’s maps and deployment zones to 40k for a campaign. I’m not sure it will scale, but the process/idea will make matchups easier to plan out ahead of game time.

[thewarriorhunter]

I always try to get 2-4 good sized pieces of LOS blocking terrain when I play. I don't want to get shot off the board, nor do I want to shoot my opponent off the board.

 

The last game I played had several pieces of LOS blocking buildings or ruins with closed walls:

 

 

This game was a little more open but still had some solid walls to provide LOS blocking:

 

[Klod]

GW terrain is garbage for LOS. Containers and Fortress of Redemption are the only pieces that provide decent LOS. In my games I always build the board with enough terrain so we have to move arround. There is nothing more boring than two castles shooting at each other across the board for 5 turns. 

[thewarriorhunter]

An option for LOS blocking if you only have ruins is to declare the bottom floor is LOS blocking.

[MegaVolt87]

Wow those orks look to have had a really strong position there. I bet that was a tough game. 

[thewarriorhunter]

Wow those orks look to have had a really strong position there. I bet that was a tough game. 

 

Those are from two separate games.

 

The top picture bat-rep can be found here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332882-what-have-your-raven-guard-done-lately/?p=5323240

 

This game was very one sided as my relic contemptor with Las Cannons wrecked his mech units.

 

The bottom picture bat-rep can be found here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332882-what-have-your-raven-guard-done-lately/?p=5381283

 

It was a close game but I ended up losing due to some misplays on my part.

[Maschinenpriester]

We usually play with lots of los blocking terrain. I think it is important to have a big los blocker in the middle. In addition we play with the house rule that buildings block los in terms of, that you can shoot inside and outside, but not through buildings, if two walls would have to be seen and shot through. this works pretty well, feels realstic and all terrain suddenly is kind of los bocking.

[thewarriorhunter]

I like the house rule. Bolt Action has a similar mechanic but I never thought to apply it to ruins.

[Ishagu]

How many play with line of sight blocking terrrain? Alot, little, none? Looking at GWs terrain, i think there doesnt seem to be all that much los blocking terrain, they have windows and stuff perhaps. Seems like shooty armies can benefit alot from being able to shoot at whatever.

 

Please excuse grammar, spelling mistakes and such.

2 - 4 pieces of LOS blocking terrain on every table is mandatory for any kind of enjoyable game.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Terrain needs an overhaul in general. Standing in cover grants +1 save but shooting through that same cover doesnt? It needs to stack, which affects the various AP of weapons and gives value to ignoring cover.

 

As it is, you either have a board covered in cereal boxes or you play with an empty board.

[mughi3]

Well in previous edition LOS blocking terrain wasn't as big a deal since the terrain gave pretty good cover saves. with 8th that's right out the window. as such going first without LOS blocking terrain almost guarantees an advantage.

 

 

this is a bit of a throwback but I prefer the area terrain system used by DUST. all area terrain blocks LOS regardless of how it looks unless you get into it and within 4" of an edge facing the enemy. I also don't like GW terrain which is little more than broken wall sections or building facades with no "area" to be in. my latest terrain purchase from ESLO was a vaulted wall that has LOS blocking on 2 sides.

[Panzer]

Several big pieces. At times our table looks more like a Cities of Death table even. Usually something like this though (don't mind the picture quality and unpainted terrain ^^)

 

Of course with the houserule that the first/ground floor of ruins is LoS blocking since I didn't get around to actually barricading it just yet.

[Grimdark_Garage]

Always run the rule that bottom floor blocks LOS and have lots of terrain.

 

Terrain and its bonuses need to be addressed by GW at some point. 

 

Personally im not a huge fan of infatry ghosting through walls regardless of there being doors/windows.

Takes me right out of the game.

[Gederas]

Always run the rule that bottom floor blocks LOS and have lots of terrain.

 

Terrain and its bonuses need to be addressed by GW at some point. 

 

Personally im not a huge fan of infatry ghosting through walls regardless of there being doors/windows.

Takes me right out of the game.

I do agree with the rule that bottom floor blocks LOS (for terrain with a bottom floor mind you). And having lots of terrain is also a good idea.

 

However regarding the last point. I mean, one of the most commonly played armies across the board are Marines and Marine Variants (ie: Loyalist, Traitor, various subfactions). The guys who are walking tanks in their armour? Remember the Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine game? This was one of the teasers for it:

 

And it's accurate for how a Marine can "ghost through walls" :P

[Slasher956]

Bring back area terrain rules!

 

LoS drawn trough it (any distance) = blocked

LoS drawn in to it over 4" = blocked

LoS drawn in to it under 4"  or over linar terrain at least half model height = -1 to hit

LoS drawn to linar terrain at least half model height  (all models in target unit in B2B with it = -2 to hit

[Ishagu]

Bring back area terrain rules!

 

LoS drawn trough it (any distance) = blocked

LoS drawn in to it over 4" = blocked

LoS drawn in to it under 4" or over linar terrain at least half model height = -1 to hit

LoS drawn to linar terrain at least half model height (all models in target unit in B2B with it = -2 to hit

Congratulations, you've just made Raven Guard and Eldar broken. Imperial Guard literally won't be able to target some units.

 

The terrain rules are actually serviceable at the moment, people just need to understand that the terrain they play with is as important as the army they run. It's easy to convert GW ruins to have LOS blocking. It's also easy to find lots of LOS blocking 3rd party kits.

[MARK0SIAN]

Yeah, the game already has too many hit modifiers in it. We don’t need more :(

[Volt]

Yeah, the game already has too many hit modifiers in it. We don’t need more

Nah terrain should absolutely cause minuses to hit, it's what makes the city rules so much more effective than vanilla. Bonuses to armor saves are useless to some factions and don't actually help increase a model's survival. Nor make sense seeing as how terrain should prevent you from being hit. Kill Team's ruleset really ought to be ported over to normal 40k.

[Ishagu]

No, the kill team rules are great in a small skirmish game but they are not suitable for larger 40k battles.

 

I do love kill team, mind.

 

Additional Modifiers to hit will have far reaching consequences on the game of 40k and should not be introduced without big sweeping re-writes to faction and unit rules.