Old Wolf Returning

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Hail brothers, and well met! It has been many years ere I walked these halls, not since the dying days of 5th edition. At the time pressures of RL forced me from the hobby (and alas, many of my old models were gifted or sold away), but I now find myself drawn back once again. Of course, 8th edition is a very different beast from 5th, and so I come to the one place every wolf knows he can find good advice and better company!

So far, I've gotten my hands on the main rulebook and our index (codex is on order). While I can't say I'm fond of this Primaris stuff, at least GW is finally moving the story a bit. How well do the new lads fit in with the Wolves, both in fluff and rule terms? I'm still trying to catch up fluffwise (we got invaded by Magnus and his book club? Again?) can you recommend any novels to get me up to speed? With the new detachment system, can you run full bike lists? If so would they be viable? Is Wolfwing still around, or have the Lion lovers reclaimed their vaunted position as the TDA only army? Does the Fang still do fun stuff like Tales of the Fang and Inglorious Drunkards? Are Postal and Greenhorn still around, and can I knock their heads together for old times sake? 

 

Thanks for your replies, and have an ale on me! FOR RUSS, FOR THE WOLFTIME!!!

[Jackalwolf]

Welcome aboard! Good to have you back.

[PeteySödes]

They kind of just pruned our bike options a bit but the good news is that with the detachments all those lists you mentioned are possible. Welcome back though, look forward to seeing your stuff and hearing your exploits!

[Karack Blackstone]

Welcome back, hope the stone of your throne isn't too frozen!

 

I kid.

 

Here, warm it with some mjod, ale, and some fine feasting! The Inglorious Drunkards isn't around right now, and the Fang is getting lively again in its own way!

 

As far as what you like, just know that the Indexes may one day go, but I honestly would consider that a disservice!

[TiguriusX]

welcome back brother!

 

skol!

[mactire]

Always good to have an Old Wolf back, welcome brother.

[NightHowler]

Welcome back old wolf!

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Thanks for the hearty welcome brothers, and its good to see some old faces! To get back into things quickly and get a hang of the new models (in rules and building them) I was thinking of grabbing the Start Collecting! Primaris Space Wolves box. Is that a good idea? Would you recommend bolters or flamers on the Agressors? And second, more serious question, I feel like I need a flow chart to keep track of the rules sources. We have main rulebook, codex, index, chapter approved, FAQs and Errata, am I missing any? Which take precedence?

[GrFlur]

Welcome back

 

It's recomforting seeing the old wolves coming back home it feels a lil' warmer now

[Karack Blackstone]

Thanks for the hearty welcome brothers, and its good to see some old faces! To get back into things quickly and get a hang of the new models (in rules and building them) I was thinking of grabbing the Start Collecting! Primaris Space Wolves box. Is that a good idea? Would you recommend bolters or flamers on the Agressors? And second, more serious question, I feel like I need a flow chart to keep track of the rules sources. We have main rulebook, codex, index, chapter approved, FAQs and Errata, am I missing any? Which take precedence?

 

BRB

Index Imperium I

Codex

Chapter Approved (each Year)

FAQ's

Erratas

Chapter Approved

 

The most recent always takes priority. After that, anything in the previous rules sources that has not been updated takes precedence.

 

So, Index Imperium I Wolf Guard Bikers are still legal, but for how long remains to be seen.

 

However, the most recent Errata and FAQ documents update the Combat Doctrines that all PA SM models get, thus, that update takes precedence as it is most recent.

 

Primaris are also in a similar boat; the Errata and FAQ update changes them so use that first, then go backwards in order. Most recent update first, not updated stuff remains the same.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

 

However, the most recent Errata and FAQ documents update the Combat Doctrines that all PA SM models get, thus, that update takes precedence as it is most recent.

 

 

THATS what I was just looking for, thanks Karack! You win an ale!

[Karack Blackstone]

I don't drink, but I enjoy the sentiment!

 

I just wonder as to the thread I made, that this game is going to hopefully prove that the Wolves are terrifying in their own right.

 

I just hope it happens soon, the negativity around the fires here at times is hard to resist, but I think I'm managing well enough!

 

We as players of the Vlka will get our lethal teeth properly acknowledged soon. How well remains to be seen, but as it goes, so GW writes, so the Wolves are.

 

I personally figure that they will try to do the Wolves justice, it's the Edition proper to finally do that now!

[Jonas Stromclaw]

So I got my first game of 8th edition in yesterday. Showed up at the FLGS just planning to observe, but the lads were friendly enough to insist I join in a 2v2 match, making it 3v2. I had a 700 pt patrol detachment made from a Start Collecting Primaris box plus one Grey Hunter and one Long Fangs pack I managed to scrounge from the dribs and drabs of my storage boxes (most of the rest of my models were sold/given away when I left the hobby years ago, I've found about ~25 or so PA bodies in various nooks and crannies since I decided to get back in). Game was Eldar/Eldar/Space Wolves vs. Dark Eldar/Dark Angels. Here were my take aways:

 

• 8th Edition is busy - units can do a lot more each turn than I'm used to from 5th. Moving (farther), rapid firing, and charging all in the same turn.
• Outflanking Agressors are just pure evil, and I love it. Their kill count by the end of turn 3 was 9 DA Intercessors, DE Venom, and 4 DW Knights. Admittedly that is because the poor fellow rolled miserably on his invulnerable saves, but 13 Strength 8 AP -3 attacks on the charge was always going to hurt.
• Regular infantry perform poorly in the open. Not a new concept, but this game really highlighted. My Intercessors were camping an objective to one side, grey hunters in front as a screen and to put fire on center objective, and between them in two rounds of shooting managed to kill maybe three DE Wracks. Hostile shooting on turn 2 wiped all of them out (3 Ravagers all with disintegrator cannons + fire from 2 Venoms and their embarked troops). Which brings me to my next point...
• Dark Eldar have some really annoying tricks. Again, nothing new (I played against DE in 5th) but this really highlighted it. The DE player had this murder blob of Wracks, Grotesques, Pain Engines, and HQ that were somehow buffed to +1 Toughness with 4+ invulnerable and 6+ FNP. They soaked up every bit of fire I put into it, included saving or FNP away every Krak missile my Long Fangs dumped into them. Then the Ravagers came in from reserve and shot me off the table (almost.
• Primaris Battle Leader was underwhelming, but I think that was because I didn't use him well. I stuck him with the Intercessors where his reroll came into effect once, but would have been better served with the plasma Grey Hunters or the Long Fangs. His personal shooting was useless. Any good advice on using Primaris HQs?

Even though we lost I had fun and got to meet some great guys, as well as getting a better feel for 8th edition. I definitely need some more ranged multi wound capability if I'm going to be playing in this meta (grotesques and wraithguard/blades, yuck) so I have ordered a box of Hellblasters. Any recommendations on their weapon options?

[PeteySödes]

Yea DE are nasty. My best tactic against the coven blob is counter tarpit and ignore them. I like taking WG with stormshields and they can tank them pretty well. I’ve also found that Cunning ofn” the Wolf is really nessicary to counter their speed a bit giving you a “gotcha” at least once. I’m not really a primaris fan though so I’m a bit limited in my advice in that regard.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

So I got my first game of 8th edition in yesterday. Showed up at the FLGS just planning to observe, but the lads were friendly enough to insist I join in a 2v2 match, making it 3v2. I had a 700 pt patrol detachment made from a Start Collecting Primaris box plus one Grey Hunter and one Long Fangs pack I managed to scrounge from the dribs and drabs of my storage boxes (most of the rest of my models were sold/given away when I left the hobby years ago, I've found about ~25 or so PA bodies in various nooks and crannies since I decided to get back in). Game was Eldar/Eldar/Space Wolves vs. Dark Eldar/Dark Angels. Here were my take aways:

 

• 8th Edition is busy - units can do a lot more each turn than I'm used to from 5th. Moving (farther), rapid firing, and charging all in the same turn.
• Outflanking Agressors are just pure evil, and I love it. Their kill count by the end of turn 3 was 9 DA Intercessors, DE Venom, and 4 DW Knights. Admittedly that is because the poor fellow rolled miserably on his invulnerable saves, but 13 Strength 8 AP -3 attacks on the charge was always going to hurt.
• Regular infantry perform poorly in the open. Not a new concept, but this game really highlighted. My Intercessors were camping an objective to one side, grey hunters in front as a screen and to put fire on center objective, and between them in two rounds of shooting managed to kill maybe three DE Wracks. Hostile shooting on turn 2 wiped all of them out (3 Ravagers all with disintegrator cannons + fire from 2 Venoms and their embarked troops). Which brings me to my next point...
• Dark Eldar have some really annoying tricks. Again, nothing new (I played against DE in 5th) but this really highlighted it. The DE player had this murder blob of Wracks, Grotesques, Pain Engines, and HQ that were somehow buffed to +1 Toughness with 4+ invulnerable and 6+ FNP. They soaked up every bit of fire I put into it, included saving or FNP away every Krak missile my Long Fangs dumped into them. Then the Ravagers came in from reserve and shot me off the table (almost.
• Primaris Battle Leader was underwhelming, but I think that was because I didn't use him well. I stuck him with the Intercessors where his reroll came into effect once, but would have been better served with the plasma Grey Hunters or the Long Fangs. His personal shooting was useless. Any good advice on using Primaris HQs?

Even though we lost I had fun and got to meet some great guys, as well as getting a better feel for 8th edition. I definitely need some more ranged multi wound capability if I'm going to be playing in this meta (grotesques and wraithguard/blades, yuck) so I have ordered a box of Hellblasters. Any recommendations on their weapon options?

Hellblasters should have the Rapid Fire weapon option.  Just imagine out-flanking them with the Aggressors.

 

Yeah, 8th is the edition of "everything dies, it is just a question of how long".  If you want to frustrate your opponent, bring some Wulfen.  A 3+ invulnerable and 5+ Feel No Pain is nasty, and they hit harder than anything else in the game.  Primaris HQ's are tricky for Wolves because we don't use static gunlines.  You might have better luck buying a box of Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs and converting them to Wolf Lord, Battle Leader, Rune Priest, and Wolf Priest all with Jump Packs.

[Kassill]

Welcome back. Sounds like it was a good experience. 8th is very much a deadlier edition across the board for sure (which I enjoy) so getting used to that will take a bit but I find it makes for fun, faster paced games. As for the Primaris Leader, I have only run mine once so far, and I just bubble wrapped him in with some fen wolves and ran him down a flank while my grey hunters and intercessors kept most of the focus in the middle and around the objectives. Once he got in he did fairly well in CC, he wiped some Necron destroyers and a handful of warriors and ended the game with 1 wound left. I'm sure there are better/efficient ways to use him but it was his first time on the board and I figured he'd want to work on that saga 

[Jonas Stromclaw]

@Iain: I've really been going back and forth in my head on the Hellblasters' weapons options. On one hand, a full squad of outflanking rapid fire plasma is a moment for a mad villain cackle if there ever was one. On the OTHER hand, that's an expensive unit to throw way out there AND costs two more CP (one to outflank the Hellblasters, the other for the Wolf Lord to get the reroll 1s to hit). The long ranged weapon gets me 12" of range and base S8, making it a better threat to armor (which my current list really needs help with) BUT can't deal as much potential damage as it only gets 1 shot not 2... but thats one less shot to fry my own guys with. I really need to sit down and work through the Mathammer before I build these guys. For Hellblasters as tank hunters, which weapon option is better, or are they even capable of that role?

 

@Kassill: Thanks for the welcome, and nice work against the Necrons! I'll keep that your advice in mind. I don't have any fen wolves but I've been thinking of running my Primaris Leader with Auto Bolt Rifle Intercessors in the future, moving forward to seize objectives from shooty armies or kiting assaulty armies (like that nasty DE Grotesque/Wrack/Pain Engine blob). Thoughts?

[Gederas]

@Iain: I've really been going back and forth in my head on the Hellblasters' weapons options. On one hand, a full squad of outflanking rapid fire plasma is a moment for a mad villain cackle if there ever was one. On the OTHER hand, that's an expensive unit to throw way out there AND costs two more CP (one to outflank the Hellblasters, the other for the Wolf Lord to get the reroll 1s to hit). The long ranged weapon gets me 12" of range and base S8, making it a better threat to armor (which my current list really needs help with) BUT can't deal as much potential damage as it only gets 1 shot not 2... but thats one less shot to fry my own guys with. I really need to sit down and work through the Mathammer before I build these guys. For Hellblasters as tank hunters, which weapon option is better, or are they even capable of that role?

I play Dark Angels for my loyalist Marines (mostly, I have a small-ish Deathwatch force) so I might seem biased when it comes to the Hellblasters (because Azrael + Lieutenant + 10-man Squad of Rapid-Fire Plasma Incinerators + Supercharge + Weapons from the Dark Age = LOLOLOLOL), but:

 

Rapid-fire Plasma Incinerator, all day, every day, and twice on Sundays. The heavy one really only ever seems more relevant if they're camping the back line, and even then, it's more expensive than it should be, only gives half as many shots and is all around worse than the regular one.

 

Also, yes. Hellblasters perform well as Tank Hunters because it's a 5-man (or more) squad toting around super Plasma Guns

[Jonas Stromclaw]

 

@Iain: I've really been going back and forth in my head on the Hellblasters' weapons options. On one hand, a full squad of outflanking rapid fire plasma is a moment for a mad villain cackle if there ever was one. On the OTHER hand, that's an expensive unit to throw way out there AND costs two more CP (one to outflank the Hellblasters, the other for the Wolf Lord to get the reroll 1s to hit). The long ranged weapon gets me 12" of range and base S8, making it a better threat to armor (which my current list really needs help with) BUT can't deal as much potential damage as it only gets 1 shot not 2... but thats one less shot to fry my own guys with. I really need to sit down and work through the Mathammer before I build these guys. For Hellblasters as tank hunters, which weapon option is better, or are they even capable of that role?

I play Dark Angels for my loyalist Marines (mostly, I have a small-ish Deathwatch force) so I might seem biased when it comes to the Hellblasters, but:

 

Rapid-fire Plasma Incinerator, all day, every day, and twice on Sundays. The heavy one really only ever seems more relevant if they're camping the back line, and even then, it's more expensive than it should be, only gives half as many shots and is all around worse than the regular one.

 

Also, yes. Hellblasters perform well as Tank Hunters because it's a 5-man (or more) squad toting around super Plasma Guns

 

Thanks Gederas. My mind is still stuck in 5th Edition (when S7 was only good for plinking transports), but with the new wound mechanics I guess they can punch a little higher weight. Even better, its the cheapest of the three options! 

[Gederas]

@Iain: I've really been going back and forth in my head on the Hellblasters' weapons options. On one hand, a full squad of outflanking rapid fire plasma is a moment for a mad villain cackle if there ever was one. On the OTHER hand, that's an expensive unit to throw way out there AND costs two more CP (one to outflank the Hellblasters, the other for the Wolf Lord to get the reroll 1s to hit). The long ranged weapon gets me 12" of range and base S8, making it a better threat to armor (which my current list really needs help with) BUT can't deal as much potential damage as it only gets 1 shot not 2... but thats one less shot to fry my own guys with. I really need to sit down and work through the Mathammer before I build these guys. For Hellblasters as tank hunters, which weapon option is better, or are they even capable of that role?

I play Dark Angels for my loyalist Marines (mostly, I have a small-ish Deathwatch force) so I might seem biased when it comes to the Hellblasters, but:

 

Rapid-fire Plasma Incinerator, all day, every day, and twice on Sundays. The heavy one really only ever seems more relevant if they're camping the back line, and even then, it's more expensive than it should be, only gives half as many shots and is all around worse than the regular one.

 

Also, yes. Hellblasters perform well as Tank Hunters because it's a 5-man (or more) squad toting around super Plasma Guns

Thanks Gederas. My mind is still stuck in 5th Edition (when S7 was only good for plinking transports), but with the new wound mechanics I guess they can punch a little higher weight. Even better, its the cheapest of the three options!

Yeah, they got rid of that weird thing where anti-armour weapons (melta, plasma).... couldn't hurt armour :lol:

 

Think of it like this: With S7 Plasma Guns, you're wounding most vehicles on 4s (and any Marine on 3s, baseline humans/Eldar on 2s). And when supercharged, you're then wounding almost every vehicle in the game on 3s outside of things that are Toughness 8 or Higher (IE: Any really, really heavy stuff).

[Rums]

Welcome back brother! I too am coming back from 5th, but I did have a question for the fang regarding bikes this edition. Between the errata, codex, and chapter approved, how many bikes can we take in a swiftclaw pack? Is it 9 as in CA or 16 as per the dex?

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Welcome back brother! I too am coming back from 5th, but I did have a question for the fang regarding bikes this edition. Between the errata, codex, and chapter approved, how many bikes can we take in a swiftclaw pack? Is it 9 as in CA or 16 as per the dex?

Hail brother, nice to meet a fellow temporal fugitive!I believe CA was errata’d to match the codex, so 16, 18 if you count the add on options of Wolf Guard and attack bike. But why would you? It’d be unwieldy as all get out on a table with any significant amount of terrain.