Sorcerer Vs Dark Apostle

[Kain Mor]

Pretty much the title, I’m trying to decide if a Dark Apostle with disciples is a better option than the Sorcerer I currently use to buff infantry units in my Night Lords army. The powers I generally take on the sorcerer are Prescience and Delightful agonies, both of which have a suitable Prayer version, though I also like the idea of Benediction of Darkness stacking with the Night Lord stratagem.

 

Sorcerer: 98 pts, force stave and bolt pistol.

Pros:

Knows Smite + 2 powers

Can change powers on the fly for 1 cp

Can cast two powers per turn

Only takes one slot if transported

 

Cons:

Prescience 58% chance to cast

Delightful Agonies 72% chance to cast

 

Dark Apostle with Disciples: 110 pts

Pros:

83% chance to cast any power

Invuln save

Not entirely useless in melee

 

Cons:

More expensive

Can only cast one power per turn

Has to be on the field at the start of the battle round (doesn’t work well in transports)

Takes 3 transport slots

Knows Dark Zealotry and only 1 power

 

What are your thoughts? Anything I missed? Excited anecdotal evidence of strength as a unit?

[Tyriks]

If the Dark Apostle has Benediction of Darkness, he is useful first turn even if you go second. A Sorcerer or Master of Possession isn't.

[Prot]

Tyriks has the essential difference that would tip the balance to a Dark Apostle but to be honest this is a continual debate I have with myself in my lists.

 

Psyker powers are far more flexible. They can be swapped, and used at range, and have a far greater span of utility or offense. I always find it's about Benediction of Darkness. However that power/ability is meaning less, and less as we see more and more 're-roll any/all' type auras. 

[Doom Herald]

What units are you trying to enhance with these characters? I see you mention transport capacity, are you intending to use transports, or are you just wanting the option?

[Kain Mor]

I usually use it on either Plasma chosen or havocs of varying types. (lascannon, or chaingun most often) The chaingun havocs having exceptionally short range and low durability means I usually toss them in a transport of some variety. Mainly I just think it’s worth considering mobility. Especially since the dark apostle seems to have 6” buff range while many psychic powers are 18”.

 

One other perk for the Dark Apostle I thought of is that his powers can’t be denied, where there’s always that chance with the psyker. No chance of perils of the warp either...

 

Benediction of darkness is less of a tipping point for me because

1. I have access to a -1 stratagem(though it is infantry only)

2. What Prot said about changing Auras

3. The big one is that choosing that means spending 100+ points to only give a -1 to hit

 

If the Dark Apostle could at least like know 3 powers or something but still only cast one, or there was a similar stratagem to the warp familiar for psykers I think that would make them much more usable

[MegaVolt87]

I like the sorc for the devastation battery, with death hex and prescience. If you need the 5++ bubble, we got the crown or deredeo dreads. Yeah DA being able to know three powers or exchange the base one at least would be nice. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If they're marked, the DA does know three powers.

[Kain Mor]

For me to spend 110 points on him to try him out I think he’d need a stratagem or some way to unlock 2 casts in a turn. Or a strat to pray while he’s in a transport...

[Sonoftherubric21]

Perhaps I am biased but as a Black Legion player I have some very real incentive to use both. 

 

I often do with Council of Traitors active (3 warlord traits) though I am a corner case and ROI in this circumstance is pretty high.

Though as stated above by many its a tight debate if you must only have one. I think overall due to the utility of a sorcerer the Sorc *BARELY* edges out the Apostle. The points difference is negligible and really means nothing because a 2+ for prayers is excellent. But I tend to agree the extra cast, and the extra utility is wonderful overall for long term versatility in a list over the course of a standard game. The apostle tapers off (assuming -1 to be hit is the standard we are accepting) post turn 3 or so while the sorcerer will be useful in almost any situation regardless. 

That being said: I love both! Get good mileage from both and often take them in pairs. 

[Trevak Dal]

I kinda miss the butt ton of powers that were in 7th. Giselburtus ran with pyromancy and Biomancy (muscley fire wizard) he got his teeth kicked in a lot, but sometimes...old G-Bert suplexed something in combat and set something else on fire and that made it worth it.